Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Vaalingrade Ashland 12-22-05, 06:27 PM	This is an offshoot of another thread in which I posted a monster with these abilities, which serves as a centerpiece of my World of Ere Campaign Setting. Both can be seen (for the time being, I'm moving them to thier own page soom) here: http://www.worldofere.com/monsters.htm Discarnate Subtype Discarnate Subtype: Discarnate creatures are those whose powers have expanded beyond the scope of mortality. In the eyes of mortals, they are often thought of as demi-deific. Traits: A Discarnate creature posesses following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry). * Darkvision out to 60 feet and low-light vision * Immortality/-20 hit points * Resistance to cold 10 * Incorporeal touch (Su): Discarnate creatures can effect Incorporeal creatures and object as if they were Incorporeal. Immortaility Special Ability Immortality (Ex): An immortal creature does not die when reduced to -10 hit points or lower. It is immune to Constitution damage and death effects and never suffers negative levels. An immortal creature treats any ability drain (permanent ability damage) as temporary ability damage, which it heals at the normal rate. An immortal creature suffers no penalties for aging (but bonuses still accrue) and never dies of old age. Any other effect that would normally kill an immortal creature instead reduces its hit points to -10. If an immortal creature is incapacitated by being reduced to -10 or fewer hit points, it remains unconscious until it recovers through natural healing or outside help. An immortal creature regrows lost body parts in 1d6 days, unless it has another ability that will regrow them more quickly. An immortal creature always has one specific vulnerability that can permanently end its life. Most vulnerabilities also require the creature to be reduced to at least -10 hit points. Typical vulnerabilities include beheading, fire damage, damage from a particular kind of weapon, and burial, but immortal creatures often have unique vulnerabilities, or possess more than one vulnerability.
Rhomphaia 12-22-05, 06:56 PM	The closer I look at this, the less it seems like it has the traits of a type or subtype. It is starting to come off to me as more of a template than anything else. By having it as a creature type or subtype is more simple, but at the sake of accuracy, (and possibly D&D convention). However, to make it a template would require a lot more work than what would be worth it for something that probably shouldn't get into a player's hands. That also brings up this question. In the templates I have seen you use this subtype in, you gave a level adjustment to the template. Do you intent for PCs or cohorts of PCs to have this subtype?
Vaalingrade Ashland 12-22-05, 07:14 PM	The closer I look at this, the less it seems like it has the traits of a type or subtype. It is starting to come off to me as more of a template than anything else. By having it as a creature type or subtype is more simple, but at the sake of accuracy, (and possibly D&D convention). However, to make it a template would require a lot more work than what would be worth it for something that probably shouldn't get into a player's hands. I use Discarnate as a subtype for a bunch of critters and stuff for my CS. At its core, immortality was my version of the concept DR seems to being pressed into in 3.5. The Discarnate subtype, however has for a long time been a big part of my setting, where monsters were gifted with a magical otherworldlyness. That also brings up this question. In the templates I have seen you use this subtype in, you gave a level adjustment to the template. Do you intent for PCs or cohorts of PCs to have this subtype? The closest I intend for PCs to get to this is *counting* as discarnate for the purpose of some feats I'm working on and summoning creautures with the type through new spells. But some DMs run differently from them, so I leave the tools to do so. Not that I expect anyone would want a Furae cohort, what with them being single minded about things.
Rhomphaia 12-22-05, 07:45 PM	I could see a furae cohort for someone like a blackguard or evil cleric or somesuch, but not really for most player characters, and certainly not for good PCs. As a trait for a monster though, the discarnate subtype is awesome for a recurring NPC, particularly for a BBEG or better yet, a cronie of a BBEG, someone you fight a couple/few times and they keep coming back and when you finally do off the thing's boss, this creature becomes the boss and it takes a truly epic effort to put a final end to them. As for damage reduction, I do feel there was a sense of immortality trying to be conveyed, but as a player of older editions, I can see another reason for DR. I am not sure how familiar you are with 1e/2e, but many monsters had a 'can only be hit by +2 or better weapons' abilities and whatnot, basically meaning absolutely no damage was dealt to a creature unless you had such a weapon. To those more familiar with 3.x, think of it as something like DR -/magic. Your judgement call is a good one though. I wouldn't let a PC anywhere near these abilities without a ridiculous LA, like +6 or higher. This is a good subtype, and I do think D&D needs more in the way of types and subtypes to reflect specific niches, strengths and weaknesses of creatures. Somehow just a blanket 'demon', 'dragon' and 'plant' doesn't seem specific enough at times.
savant_warlord13 12-22-05, 08:14 PM	all I know is, my players can't have it and my monsters can
Slagger the Chuul 12-23-05, 01:55 AM	all I know is, my players can't have it and my monsters can I would actually the immortality as a very good ability for PCs. The important part is that it doesn't make the PCs any harder to temporarily take out of comission, it just makes them extremely difficult to permanently destroy. It would see great use if you want to run a very brutal campaign where the PCs "die" a lot.
savant_warlord13 12-23-05, 12:20 PM	the immortality and incorporeal touch are my main problem in regards to PC use. Immunity to death effects? Then how can I keep them in line? The incorporeal touch thing might be okay with a significant LA
Rhomphaia 12-23-05, 12:37 PM	The incoporeal touch basically eliminates the need for Ghost Touch weapons as well...speaking of which, does this touch extend to a held weapon or no?
Vaalingrade Ashland 12-23-05, 01:43 PM	the immortality and incorporeal touch are my main problem in regards to PC use. Immunity to death effects? Then how can I keep them in line? The incorporeal touch thing might be okay with a significant LA Using death effects isn't really keeping them in line, its just penalizing them for not having a twinked saving throw. You can still drive them sub-0 and have them unconcious. And for a simply discarnate character, driving them to -20 still killed them. Coup de grace still puts them at -10 on a failed save. The incoporeal touch basically eliminates the need for Ghost Touch weapons as well...speaking of which, does this touch extend to a held weapon or no? Doesn't extend to anything else you touch. I didn't think I had to list that.
Rhomphaia 12-23-05, 01:59 PM	Doesn't extend to anything else you touch. I didn't think I had to list that. Technically no, you didn't, but it is a good thing to have a clear rule on if you know what I mean.
Tebryn14 12-23-05, 11:39 PM	I really like both of them. One way I could see using the immortal subtype would be in a situation like in the Avatar series where Malik is granted temporary imperviability. He can't be killed, even by Cyric.