Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Freethink 04-19-07, 10:48 AM	Lets' assume a PC dread necromancer has advanced to epic levels and has turned into a lich (or a walker into the waste into a dry lich). What kind of magical (item, SLA, Su, persistent spell) effect would be necessary to effectively disguise him/her 24/7 to all normal senses (sight, hearing, touch) as a normal humanoid (or an intact undead that can pass up, such as a vampire) ? I know that hat of disguise wouldn't be enough (no touch disguise) but would the changeling minor change shape ability pull the trick ?
Another_Poet 04-19-07, 02:59 PM	I just re-read the lich description in the MM. It says that its body "shows all too well the weight of the years." (p. 166) This implies that the skeletal appearance of most liches is due to their bodies rotting away at a normal rate. The only thing that makes a freshly-liched character look any different from any other fresh corpse, then, are the glowing eyes. Therefore if I was allowing a PC to turn into a lich, I would house-rule the following: -Get a pair of dark spectacles (i.e. sunglasses), or wear a weil, mask or helmet. No disguise check needed to cover up the eyes. -For the first few days or even first couple of weeks after the lich transformation, you can pass as a vampire or a living but sick human (you haven't started to rot yet). To look like a healthy living human, disguise check (DC20). DM should adjust this period based on climate and other conditions. -After the first week or two, and until the end of a month or three, you can pass as a corpse (when still) or a zombie (when moving). To look like a vampire or a sick but living human, disguise check (DC25) and do something about the smell. -After that, you can pass as a skeleton. To pass as a zombie or corpse, disguise check (DC25) is needed. I would probably allow the PC's to make some craft (alchemy) checks to mix up a preservative which could extend the threshholds. Dry, cold conditions would also extend them. If this seems a little too easy, I think it should be. Disguising a corpse with glowing eyes as a corpse without glowing eyes just doesn't seem all that difficult to me. Although a skeleton with sunglasses might stand out a bit... good luck (dread necromancers rock!) ap
Need_A_Life 04-19-07, 03:05 PM	Gentle repose... Halt that nasty rotting for 1 day/caster level. Get a wand... or a wondrous item. That's what I did as a Dry Lich...
InterSilva 04-19-07, 03:17 PM	Yep, Wondrous Item of Permanent Gentle Repose is your best bet.
katarl 04-19-07, 03:50 PM	Using alter self to become yourself, with flesh might work, but you'd have to keep it on as long as you were in sight. My dm has a house rule that undead that have the tomb-tainted feat before they die get to keep their bodies the way they were before they died, because the power sustaining the body never really changed, it just grew. Since tomb-tainted soul has no other use to an undead, and fitted the flavour, we implemented it in all our games.
Freethink 04-19-07, 06:36 PM	Yep, all nice and useful advice, but to pull it back to a part of the original question, what kind of SLA, Su, persistent spell or magical psionic item would be necessary for a lich to shapeshift at will into a humanoid (or in a vampire-like intact corpse that would mimic it) ? Would the changeling ability pull the trick ? Hat of disguise can do it, but won't pass the touch test. Permanent Wondrous Item of Gentle Repose is one useful trick, but I want to explore other ways (e.g. maybe the lich was a changeling, and wishes to keep his disguise abilities).
Zenogias 04-19-07, 09:20 PM	If you really want to tamper around with how you exist as an undead, then play around with the spell 'Spark of Life'. It is so potent that it removes undead immunities (including being susceptable to critical hits [organs coming back to life??!]) and grants Undead the power to take health from both Negative and Positive energy.
Corpsekin 04-20-07, 11:32 AM	i dont think you can disguise yourself from true seeing in anyway, if you are going to disguise yourself i'd advise wearing a helmet/hood/mask and robes that cover your entire body if people ask why you dont eat, sleep or breath just say you have a ring of greater sustinance
Critical_Failure 04-20-07, 12:38 PM	the undead description says that yopu don't need to eat,not that you can't. If you're a litch i would say that you have the force of will needd to keep organs functioning when needed (and only when needed, so no criticals) so just eat and drink nory and use gentle repose to prevent unsightly rting as to dsguising it, talk to yourdm about making a magic belt or robe with that quality, (wanderous item, you already have the fet)
Freethink 04-20-07, 02:39 PM	Using alter self to become yourself, with flesh might work, but you'd have to keep it on as long as you were in sight. Therefore, crafting or commissioning a Permanent Wondrous Item or Ring of Alter Self would be an effective disguise for a lich.