Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gemstone 03-02-08, 06:52 PM	Does an attack that destroys a vampire utterly, such as disintegration, kill it? I'm tired right now and my search fu is weak, so I can't find an answer to this question.
turalisj 03-02-08, 06:58 PM	Yes. Infact, it's a very popular way to rid yourself of a vampire.
Gemstone 03-03-08, 02:41 AM	Yes. Infact, it's a very popular way to rid yourself of a vampire. [Evil laughter]thank you very much[/evil laughter] :)
Shaggy_Shaggs 03-03-08, 03:08 AM	Just to be safe, you should probably roll up a scroll and snort the pile of leftover dust.
Slagger the Chuul 03-03-08, 08:30 AM	The question would be how disintegrate interacts with the vampire's ability to assume gaseous form when reduced to 0 hit points. I don't think being turned into dust is incompatible with turning into gas.
Gemstone 03-03-08, 10:17 AM	The question would be how disintegrate interacts with the vampire's ability to assume gaseous form when reduced to 0 hit points. I don't think being turned into dust is incompatible with turning into gas. That is true, but if we interprent it as molecular dust... the good old disintegrate which just dealt "pseudo-damage" and killed you if below 0 hp from our old games was much better at this :D
Slagger the Chuul 03-03-08, 11:28 AM	That is true, but if we interprent it as molecular dust... the good old disintegrate which just dealt "pseudo-damage" and killed you if below 0 hp from our old games was much better at this :D How is molecular dust really that different from a cloud of particles floating in the air?
WombleHunter 03-03-08, 12:20 PM	The thing is, a vampire's gaseous form defense relies on the vampire being reduced to 0 hp. This means that other methods of destroying undead bypass the gaseous form defense - Greater (or just very good) Turnings and Sunbeams/bursts are good examples of this. In this case, if the vampire fails its Fort save then it is transmuted into a pile of dust - which, I would argue, means that it is no longer a vampire.
Damned slayer 03-03-08, 12:58 PM	The question would be how disintegrate interacts with the vampire's ability to assume gaseous form when reduced to 0 hit points. I don't think being turned into dust is incompatible with turning into gas. Tell me how do you kill one than???
Slagger the Chuul 03-03-08, 05:49 PM	Tell me how do you kill one than??? Direct sunlight, running water, and any number of other attack forms that don't rely on simply doing a lot of Hit Point damage. Even when they assume gaseous form at 0 HP, they need to reach their coffin within 2 hours or be utterly destroyed, and once they reach their coffin, they're completely helpless for a full hour. It's tough to destroy a vampire in immediate combat using hit point damage, but they're far from indestructible.
turalisj 03-03-08, 06:56 PM	-_-' You hit anything with a disinigrate (or it's psionic version) and it goes down. No turning into puffs of smoke, no passing go, and no collecting the 200pp for failing a critical save. Unless you are a lich, have true res, or wish, you can't come back.
Old_Troll 03-03-08, 08:35 PM	I'll start with "this is my interpretation of the vampire as written, and I think it is reasonable." Just to get the disclaimer out of the way. As it is nearly impossible to bring a vampire down to exactly zero hits, thus turning it gaseous, I find it terribly unlikely that the original designer meant that it had to be exactly zero. Therefore, whenever a vampire goes to zero or under, they go gaseous. At that point, barring a source of sunlight, you will have to go hunt down its body and use one of the traditional methods of killing it. That's why those methods exist. Besides, this extends the excitement of the chase, puts a timer limit on finding it, and gives the DM another chance to make the characters think, use skills, discover minions,etc... Disintegrate does not destroy a vampire. Of course I am GMing near epic level characters, and am Lawful Evil myself. So I HATE it when people wimp out the abilities of powerful creatures so they can kill them without having to use their cunning. Hopefully your GM has some backbone and will say no to instant death-by-disintegration, and give you a really good adventure and allow you to feel justified in receiving the xp for taking down such a powerful foe. Tip: Always enter the crypt during the morning. Gives you all day to deal with setbacks and still have daylight to retreat to.
Shaggy_Shaggs 03-03-08, 08:42 PM	Course the other way to look at that is Disintegrate triggers when the target's hp falls to/below 0, not when the target dies or is destroyed. And the thing about a pile of dust left over from Disintegrate is, it's not a vampire. It doesn't have mist form. It just lies there and does nothing unless a stiff breeze comes up. I wonder why it is that DMs are so hard on damage dealers. Coping with problems via hp damage is such a horribly suboptimal solution in many cases anyway, it doesn't seem like there's any reason to weaken bruisers and blasters where they are a good idea, unless it's just done out of spite. What gives?
Slagger the Chuul 03-04-08, 03:48 AM	Course the other way to look at that is Disintegrate triggers when the target's hp falls to/below 0, not when the target dies or is destroyed. And the thing about a pile of dust left over from Disintegrate is, it's not a vampire. It doesn't have mist form. It just lies there and does nothing unless a stiff breeze comes up. By that logic, even a vampire killed by a fireball is just a charred corpse, not a vampire capable of turning into gas. It's probably safe to assume that an ability specifically designed to function at the exact point the vampire stops being a creature will do just that, particularly when the effect that might possibly stop it does so by separating it into component particles and the vampire's defense involves separating into component particles. I wonder why it is that DMs are so hard on damage dealers. Coping with problems via hp damage is such a horribly suboptimal solution in many cases anyway, it doesn't seem like there's any reason to weaken bruisers and blasters where they are a good idea, unless it's just done out of spite. What gives? It's probably because it generally requires little to no thought, so that the less imaginative players use it as a generic solution to everything.
Gemstone 03-04-08, 03:50 AM	Actually, a vampire can't go below 0 hp, as it is destroyed when at 0 hp or below. I interprent that as no matter the damage, it stays at 0, so it enters gaseous form then. But I'm still a bit confused about this. I don't want to go "rule 0-ing" on my vampire PC, but at the same time, he's currently completly unkillable as he has his coffin so far away and none on the enemies they've currently encountered has any logical reason to go and hunt it down... Except those clerics of Kelemvor... oh they're waiting...
Shaggy_Shaggs 03-04-08, 04:01 AM	Actually, a vampire can't go below 0 hp, as it is destroyed when at 0 hp or below. I interprent that as no matter the damage, it stays at 0, so it enters gaseous form then. But I'm still a bit confused about this. I don't want to go "rule 0-ing" on my vampire PC, but at the same time, he's currently completly unkillable as he has his coffin so far away and none on the enemies they've currently encountered has any logical reason to go and hunt it down... Except those clerics of Kelemvor... oh they're waiting... Are these clerics smart enough to know how to do triangulation? If so they can find his coffin with Augury. Just need two guys standing in different places, adjusting the direction they face while repeatedly asking "Assuming I want to locate the resting place of <vampire's name here>, will I find success if I go in this direction?" until they both get "Weal", then trace out the lines of the directions they're both facing on a map, and X marks the spot. They will need a fast enough means of transportation that they can reasonably get to his coffin from where they're triangulating from, or the question will be meaningless, of course.
Slagger the Chuul 03-04-08, 06:43 AM	When he turns gaseous they could just follow him home. He only flies at a speed of 20 feet and can't use spells or supernatural abilities. The coffin also can't be too far away, since the vampire needs to reach it within two hours to avoid being utterly destroyed.
Malek2991 03-04-08, 11:59 PM	You could always reduce the Vampire to 0 (or less) in an Anti-magic field. Since its ability to assume gaseous form is a supernatural ability, it would be unable to assume gaseous form upon being defeated, and thus be destroyed.
Gemstone 03-05-08, 04:18 AM	You could always reduce the Vampire to 0 (or less) in an Anti-magic field. Since its ability to assume gaseous form is a supernatural ability, it would be unable to assume gaseous form upon being defeated, and thus be destroyed. I'm sooooo gonna use that :) thanks
ninja1 03-05-08, 12:31 PM	By that logic, even a vampire killed by a fireball is just a charred corpse, not a vampire capable of turning into gas. A big difference between Fireball and Disintegrate is the former is an evocation, while the latter is a transmutation. I disagree with Shaggy_Shaggs, but not for the same reasons you do. I wouldn't agree that Disintegrate "triggers" when the target's hp falls to/below 0... When the fireball evocation hits and does damage, it is the Fire doing the damage. When the disintegrate transmutation hits, it is transmuting the target into fine dust... If it is not strong enough of a transmutation to completely change the target then it takes "damage" as only parts of it are changed into dust (transmuted). ...If it is strong enough of a transmutation to completely change the target, then you get the "leaving behind only a trace of fine dust" response... but the target is transmuted... not destroyed. Transmutation Transmutation spells change the properties of some creature, thing, or condition.
Rederik 03-05-08, 03:01 PM	Actually, a vampire can't go below 0 hp, as it is destroyed when at 0 hp or below. I interprent that as no matter the damage, it stays at 0, so it enters gaseous form then. But I'm still a bit confused about this. I don't want to go "rule 0-ing" on my vampire PC, but at the same time, he's currently completly unkillable as he has his coffin so far away and none on the enemies they've currently encountered has any logical reason to go and hunt it down... Except those clerics of Kelemvor... oh they're waiting... I am curious on "so far away"... How far away is that, exactly? If you get dropped to zero HP, you become gaseous and must reach your coffin in 2 hours... or become utterly destroyed. What do you do when you are brought to zero HP? Just curious...
Gemstone 03-05-08, 05:18 PM	I am curious on "so far away"... How far away is that, exactly? If you get dropped to zero HP, you become gaseous and must reach your coffin in 2 hours... or become utterly destroyed. What do you do when you are brought to zero HP? Just curious... One of the party members wear a ring which is the entrance into another plane. There, the vampire goes through when reduced to zero hp :) But I was tipped on some tricks to make the vampires unlife an undead hell... hehe
Zog_Jakome 03-05-08, 05:42 PM	You could always reduce the Vampire to 0 (or less) in an Anti-magic field. Since its ability to assume gaseous form is a supernatural ability, it would be unable to assume gaseous form upon being defeated, and thus be destroyed. I'm sooooo gonna use that :) thanks actually vampires have two kinds of gaseous form. the ability to assume gaseous form as a standard action is a supernatural ability and is thus barred from doing this under an antimagic field. however the part where it assumes gaseous form when reduced to 0 HP is under the fast healing description, and is an extraordinary ability. and to those wondering a vampire can travel nine miles in two hours under gaseous form. says it in the description. as far as the disintegrate thing goes, I really don't know. the DM in me would want to say that it still assumes gaseous form because it is reduced to 0 HP. but ninja1 has a point that it is changed to dust and is no longer a vampire, and that it is transmuted not destroyed. if it is destroyed utterly, then disintegrate is the lowest level spell to destroy a vampire utterly in a single casting. and because of that I would say that in my game at least they will turn gaseous form because a 6th level spell is too low to destroy a vampire outright. it depends on what the DM thinks.
ninja1 03-05-08, 06:16 PM	Because a vampire must return to it's coffin when forced to gasseous, one could use the environment to trap a gasseous formed vampire. For example, Wall of Stone (Clr 5) could seal off the only exit to an otherwise airtight chamber... However, I think the cheapest way to trap a vampire forced gasseous is to reduce it to 0 HP in an area with a solid floor and ceiling, then surround it with mirrors or "strongly presented holy symbols"... Since recoiling vampires must stay at least 5 feet away, it seems reasonable to form a circle around the target to keep it from leaving the area. Wait 2 hours, then watch it harmlessly dissipate