Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DevaNinja 06-23-03, 12:38 AM	I've always wanted to convert the Gargoyle's from Disney's animated series into monsters for D&D. Well here's my first one! Its medium size (like Daemona). I plan to do 3 more. Small size (Lexington), Large size (Goliath, Coldstone), & Quadraped (Bronx). Please let me know what you think? I really don't know what to put the CR at? Any help would be appreciated. I'm open to comments or suggestions to better flesh them out too! Medium-Size Monstrous Humanoid Hit Dice: 5d8+15 (37 hp) Initiative: +2 (Dex) Speed: 30 ft., Climb 15 ft., Fly 60 ft. (poor) AC: 16 (+4 Natural, +2 Dex) Attacks: 2 Claw +10 Damage: 1d6+4 Special Attacks: Fearful Gaze Special Qualities: Dark Vision, Stone Sleep Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft. Saves: Fort +9, Ref +6, Will +2 Abilities: Str 18, Dex 14, Con 17, Int 11, Wis 13, Chr 12 Skills: Climb +16, Hide +8, Jump +10, Move Silent +8 Feats: Great Fortitude, Weapon Focus (Claw) Climate/Terrain: Any Mountains, and Hills Challange Rating: Treasure: Standard Alignment: Usually Lawful Neutral Advancement: By Character Class Gargoyles are an ancient race of creatures. They are generally humanoid in appearance with the exception of their bat-like wings. Some have bird-like facial features while some even appear demonic in appearance, and some support tails. Gargoyles are usually not found in civilized lands. They make their homes in mountainous regions or on rare occasions within a castle which they serve as it's wards. Gargoyle society is based around a clan. A gargoyles primary duty is the protection of the clan and it's members. Gargoyles are not very individualistic. They have no names except those given to them by other races. Gargoyles are hatched in rookeries. They are raised by the entire clan, not knowing whom their birth mother or father is. Gargoyles are nocturnal, for they are not conscious when the sun is out. For as soon as the suns rays rech over the horizon, they turn to stone, until the suns rays set beyond the horizon. It is in this state in which they are most vulnerable. When a gargoyle makes a friend, it is a friend for life. Gargoyles can see in th dark as well as a human can see in the day. Fearful Gaze (Su): When an opponent looks into the eyes of an angered gargoyle they must succeed at a Willpower Save (DC 15). Failure indicates that they are panicked (As per the fear effect in the DMG). Stone Sleep (Su): While the sun is out the gargoyle turns to stone.They are very succeptible to attacks while in this form. While in stone form they have a hardness of 8. Hit Points equal to their normal maximum, and a Break DC of 35. Any damage done to them while in this form is permanent. Only a Regeneration, Heal, or Miracle/Wish spell can restore this damage. ON th positive side, any damage that is dealt to them while in flesh form is completely healed during thier stone sleep as if a Heal spell as been cast on them.
Swordwraith 06-23-03, 10:58 AM	Good job! I also really liked that version of gargoyles. I am going to use your conversion. heres some input though. I would give the large ones two more HD and the small ones one or 2 less. and what about the dog they had? Also coming up with a CR will be almost impossible, there could be a base CR of 5 or so, but for a more accurate encounter, you should assign them an ECl, so that each Gargoyle will be unique as they can advance in character classes. Id give it an ecl of +1 or +2. Id need to go over your conversion a little more carefully (and in a calmer way) to be sure. I'd aslo give them some racial qualities, natural armor, ability bonuses, maybe even an extra feat of something. Their different sizes should give them bonuses and penalties to a different set of stats(ie small has more dex, large has more strength) Hope that helps. I for one am looking forward to you converting some more of them.
GypsyComet 06-23-03, 04:18 PM	Nice. My first thought upon seeing the topic name was the three buffoons from Hunchback...
Mage of Sembia 06-23-03, 04:25 PM	Me too
Edymnion 06-23-03, 04:29 PM	When you want to make a single kind of creature that spans several sizes and body types, its usually easier to make a template that can be applied across the board than it is to make up all those differant creatures. Perhaps use the gargoyle you have here, subtract out the human in it, then turn whats left into a template you can slap on halflings, ogres, dogs, whatever you need.
DevaNinja 06-23-03, 04:44 PM	Never saw Disney's Hunchback? Well Here's the stats for the small size'd ones like Lexington. As a note, I'm using the article "How to Create a Monster" from Dragon #276 to build these. Of course there are some modificaations. It's stated that they recieve 1 feat +1 for every 4 Hit dice. Should I give them a bonus racial feat for free? (Otherwise the small ones get one less feat). Please comment. Well anyways Here's the small ones! Small-Size Monstrous Humanoid Hit Dice: 3d8+9 (18 hp) Initiative: +3 (Dex) Speed: 20 ft., Climb 10 ft., Fly 40 ft. (poor) AC: 18 (+4 Natural, +3 Dex, +1 Size) Attacks: 2 Claw +5 Damage: 1d4+2 Special Attacks: Fearful Gaze Special Qualities: Dark Vision, Stone Sleep Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft. Saves: Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +2 Abilities: Str 14, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 11, Wis 13, Chr 12 Skills: Climb +16, Hide +8, Jump +10, Move Silent +8 Feats: Weapon Finesse (Claw), Climate/Terrain: Any Mountains, and Hills Challange Rating: Treasure: Standard Alignment: Usually Lawful Neutral Advancement: By Character Class Gargoyles are an ancient race of creatures. They are generally humanoid in appearance with the exception of their bat-like wings. Some have bird-like facial features while some even appear demonic in appearance, and some support tails. Gargoyles are usually not found in civilized lands. They make their homes in mountainous regions or on rare occasions within a castle which they serve as it's wards. Gargoyle society is based around a clan. A gargoyles primary duty is the protection of the clan and it's members. Gargoyles are not very individualistic. They have no names except those given to them by other races. Gargoyles are hatched in rookeries. They are raised by the entire clan, not knowing whom their birth mother or father is. Gargoyles are nocturnal, for they are not conscious when the sun is out. For as soon as the suns rays rech over the horizon, they turn to stone, until the suns rays set beyond the horizon. It is in this state in which they are most vulnerable. When a gargoyle makes a friend, it is a friend for life. Gargoyles can see in th dark as well as a human can see in the day. Fearful Gaze (Su): When an opponent looks into the eyes of an angered gargoyle they must succeed at a Willpower Save (DC 15). Failure indicates that they are panicked (As per the fear effect in the DMG). Stone Sleep (Su): While the sun is out the gargoyle turns to stone.They are very succeptible to attacks while in this form. While in stone form they have a hardness of 8. Hit Points equal to their normal maximum, and a Break DC of 35. Any damage done to them while in this form is permanent. Only a Regeneration, Heal, or Miracle/Wish spell can restore this damage. On the positive side, any damage that is dealt to them while in flesh form is completely healed during thier stone sleep as if a Heal spell as been cast on them.
DevaNinja 06-23-03, 04:49 PM	That's a good thought Edymnion. But if I did that that would retract what the Gargoyles actually are. I think thats like making Europeans, Asians or Pygmies a template that could be added to an existing race. They're all human though. no need to do that just because of size. I can see it now, The Mini Me Template! I don't think a template's the right way to go. After all there are different stats for different size Elementals right? Thanks for the input though! Actually as a thought, should I add the Earth subtype to the Gargoyles?
DevaNinja 06-23-03, 05:28 PM	It appears I made a minor mistake on the small gargoyles. Their attack bonus should be +7. I subtracted one from their base attack instead of adding one for their small size. Doh!
DevaNinja 06-23-03, 09:56 PM	Does anyone think that I should also give them the ability to rage (like a barbarian)?
LaegolasGreenleaf 06-23-03, 10:04 PM	Yeah, rage would be a good thing because they seem to do that anyway. Goliath sure did.
Swordwraith 06-23-03, 11:05 PM	I think you should give the gargoyles the racial feat, it is not fair to the smaller gargoyles to have one less feat. You could justify this by the fact that the gargoyles seem to be very versatile. I agree that a template would be the wrong way to go. Rage...did they all rage? or just Goliath, its been awhile since I've seen the cartoon, Goliath seems to me to have some class levels in Barbarian, hence his rage ability. If all of them raged at some point, which come to think of it, I think they did, then rage would be a good idea. Did you agree with my ECL idea?
DevaNinja 06-23-03, 11:29 PM	I've decided to give them 2 racial feats. Alertness and Great Fortitude. As for the rage. Yeah they all did it. Their eyes would glow, then they'd go psycho in combat. Goliath just did it more than the others. I really don't agree with the ECL idea. I don't think that they'd be good as PC's since of their "I'm a statue during the day" ability. If I did give them a ECL I would probably just add +3 to their Hit Dice. The stone sleep is both a hinderence and an asset. They get massive bonuses to all of their Physical abilities. Also, do you think the Saving throw DC for their gaze attack should be different depending on what size they are? Let me know and I'll post the finished version tomorrow with Challenge Ratings.
Swordwraith 06-23-03, 11:33 PM	I thought it was ok, but since you mention it, you might want to say, 10+1 per class level they earn (max dc 20) so that they hatchling gargoyles arent quite as scary as Goliath. But if you hate that idea, then i was ok with your dc of 15.
DevaNinja 06-23-03, 11:38 PM	Yeah maybe up the DC for adding class levels, but I was more concerned with size. Perhaps I should make the DC 14 for the smaller ones (Like Lexington), keep it at 15 for the Medium ones (Daemona), and DC 16 for the big ones (Goliath). Whaddya think?
Swordwraith 06-23-03, 11:43 PM	hmmm, thats not a very broad range of dcs, maybe the med should be 16 and the lg should be 18? Goliath and the older one were pretty scary dudes. I kind of agree with both my earlier idea and your idea of the fixed dcs, I think both ideas are balanced abilities.
DevaNinja 06-24-03, 12:06 AM	Cool, have a difference of 2 between the DC's. I like. If you add class levels, maybe up the DC 1 pont per 2 class levels?
Swordwraith 06-24-03, 12:14 AM	No, because then after about 5 class levels for a lg gargoyle, no one could resist the fear gaze. Except a high level wizard or monk. maybe if you start all the dcs lower (at 10 or so), but give a bonus due to size, so the lg guys start off more intimidating than the small ones, then allow them the 1 up on the dc for every 2 class levels, so they would have to be uber gargoyle for their dc to be over 20. Ehh??Like? Hate?
DevaNinja 06-24-03, 12:14 AM	Actually, going back to look in the issue of Dragon Magazine I mentioned, the formula for the save DC would be 10 + 1/2 Hit Dice + Ability mod (Charisma in this case. Basically intimidation). Therefore it would increase according to class.
Swordwraith 06-24-03, 12:18 AM	sounds good to me, what issue of dragon is that?
DevaNinja 06-24-03, 12:29 AM	It's in Dragon #276. You can also find that formula in the beginning of the Monster Manual in Gaze attacks. I decided to up their Charisma to 14, since it represents personal strength as well. Going back to the intimidate point again :)
DevaNinja 06-24-03, 01:14 AM	Looking on the net I found something of interest. Thy skybox trading cards from the series has their stats. here they are Goliath 7' 300 lbs flesh 1 ton stone Brooklyn 6' 210 lbs flesh 1/2 ton stone Broadway 6' 1 ton flesh 10 tons stone Lexington 5'5" 180 lbs flesh 1/4 ton stone Hmm.... Arcording to this unearthed information, they all seem to be medium size (Except maybe Goliath who might be considered large). IMO I don't think that Broadway's stats can possibly be right? what to do, what to do?
DevaNinja 06-24-03, 04:41 PM	Well, I've just decided to go with the four original ones that I intended. Here is what I believe to be thier final version. I'm not sure if their favored classs should be fighter or barbarian though? Small-Size Monstrous Humanoid Hit Dice: 3d8+9 (18 hp) Initiative: +3 (Dex) Speed: 20 ft., Climb 10 ft., Fly 40 ft. (poor) AC: 18 (+4 Natural, +3 Dex, +1 Size) Attacks: 2 Claw +7 Damage: 1d4+2 Special Attacks: Fearful Gaze, Rage Special Qualities: Dark Vision, Stone Sleep Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft. Saves: Fort +8, Ref +6, Will +2 Abilities: Str 14, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 11, Wis 13, Chr 14 Skills: Climb +16, Hide +8, Jump +10, Listen +3, Move Silent +8, Spot +3 Feats: Alertness, Great Fortitude, Weapon Finesse (Claw) Climate/Terrain: Any Mountains, and Hills Challenge Rating: 3 Organization: Patrol (2-5) Treasure: Standard Alignment: Usually Lawful Neutral Advancement: By Character Class Gargoyles are an ancient race of creatures. They are generally humanoid in appearance with the exception of their bat-like wings. Some have bird-like facial features while some even appear demonic in appearance, and some support tails. Gargoyles are usually not found in civilized lands. They make their homes in mountainous regions or on rare occasions within a castle which they serve as its wards. Gargoyle society is based around a clan. A gargoyles primary duty is the protection of the clan and it's members. Gargoyles are not very individualistic. They have no names except those given to them by other races. Gargoyles are hatched in rookeries. They are raised by the entire clan, not knowing who their birth mother or father is. Gargoyles are nocturnal, for they are not conscious when the sun is out. For as soon as the suns rays reach over the horizon, they turn to stone, until the suns rays set beyond the horizon. It is in this state in which they are most vulnerable. When a gargoyle makes a friend, it is a friend for life. Gargoyles can see in the dark as well as a human can see in the day. Gargoyles Speak Common. Some learn Draconic as well. Rage (Ex): Whenever a gargoyle is angered or enters combat, there is a 50% chance that he will fly into a rage. He gains a +4 bonus to Strength, but suffers a -4 penalty to Armor Class. This lasts for the duration of the Encounter. While in a rage the gargoyle’s fearful gaze is constantly in effect. Fearful Gaze (Su): When an opponent looks into the eyes of an angered gargoyle they must succeed at a Willpower Save (DC 13). Failure indicates that they are panicked for 2d4 rounds (As per the fear effect in the DMG). Stone Sleep (Su): While the sun is out the gargoyle turns to stone. They are very succeptible to attacks while in this form. While in stone form they are treated as stonework for all purposes and they have a hardness of 8. Hit Points equal to their normal maximum, and a Break DC of 35. Any damage done to them while in this form is permanent. Only a Regeneration, Heal, or Miracle/Wish spell can restore this damage. On the positive side, any damage that is dealt to them while in flesh form is completely healed during their stone sleep as if a Heal spell as been cast on them. Medium-Size Monstrous Humanoid Hit Dice: 5d8+15 (37 hp) Initiative: +2 (Dex) Speed: 30 ft., Climb 15 ft., Fly 60 ft. (poor) AC: 16 (+4 Natural, +2 Dex) Attacks: 2 Claw +10 Damage: 1d6+4 Special Attacks: Fearful Gaze, Rage Special Qualities: Dark Vision, Stone Sleep Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft. Saves: Fort +9, Ref +6, Will +2 Abilities: Str 18, Dex 14, Con 17, Int 11, Wis 13, Chr 14 Skills: Climb +16, Hide +8, Jump +10, Listen +3, Move Silent +8, Spot +3 Feats: Alertness, Great Fortitude, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Claw) Climate/Terrain: Any Mountains, and Hills Challenge Rating: 4 Organization: Patrol (2-5) Treasure: Standard Alignment: Usually Lawful Neutral Advancement: By Character Class Rage (Ex): Whenever a gargoyle is angered or enters combat, there is a 50% chance that he will fly into a rage. He gains a +4 bonus to Strength, but suffers a -4 penalty to Armor Class. This lasts for the duration of the Encounter. While in a rage the gargoyle’s fearful gaze is constantly in effect. Fearful Gaze (Su): When an opponent looks into the eyes of an angered gargoyle they must succeed at a Willpower Save (DC 14). Failure indicates that they are panicked (As per the fear effect in the DMG). Stone Sleep (Su): While the sun is out the gargoyle turns to stone. They are very succeptible to attacks while in this form. While in stone form they are treated as stonework for all purposes and they have a hardness of 8. Hit Points equal to their normal maximum, and a Break DC of 35. Any damage done to them while in this form is permanent. Only a Regeneration, Heal, or Miracle/Wish spell can restore this damage. On the positive side, any damage that is dealt to them while in flesh form is completely healed during their stone sleep as if a Heal spell as been cast on them. Large-Size Monstrous Humanoid Hit Dice: 7d8+28 (59 hp) Initiative: +1 (Dex) Speed: 30 ft., Climb 15 ft., Fly 60 ft. (poor) AC: 14 (+4 Natural, +1 Dex, -1 Size) Attacks: 2 Claw + 12 Damage: 2d4+5 Special Attacks: Fearful Gaze. Rage Special Qualities: Dark Vision, Stone Sleep Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft./10 ft. Saves: Fort +11, Ref +6, Will +3 Abilities: Str 20, Dex 12, Con 19, Int 11, Wis 13, Chr 14 Skills: Climb +16, Hide +8, Jump +10, Listen +3, Move Silent +8, Spot +3 Feats: Alertness, Great Fortitude, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Claw) Climate/Terrain: Any Mountains, and Hills Challenge Rating: 5 Organization: Patrol (2-5) Treasure: Standard Alignment: Usually Lawful Neutral Advancement: By Character Class Rage (Ex): Whenever a gargoyle is angered or enters combat, there is a 50% chance that he will fly into a rage. He gains a +4 bonus to Strength, but suffers a -4 penalty to Armor Class. This lasts for the duration of the Encounter. While in a rage the gargoyle’s fearful gaze is constantly in effect. Fearful Gaze (Su): When an opponent looks into the eyes of an angered gargoyle they must succeed at a Willpower Save (DC 15). Failure indicates that they are panicked for 2d4 rounds (As per the fear effect in the DMG). Stone Sleep (Su): While the sun is out the gargoyle turns to stone. They are very succeptible to attacks while in this form. While in stone form they are treated as stonework for all purposes and they have a hardness of 8. Hit Points equal to their normal maximum, and a Break DC of 35. Any damage done to them while in this form is permanent. Only a Regeneration, Heal, or Miracle/Wish spell can restore this damage. On the positive side, any damage that is dealt to them while in flesh form is completely healed during their stone sleep as if a Heal spell as been cast on them. Large-Size Magical Beast Hit Dice: 5d10+20 (45 hp) Initiative: +1 (Dex) Speed: 40 ft., Climb 20 ft AC: 14 (+5 Natural, +1 Dex, -1 Size) Attacks: Bite +10, 2 Claw + 8 Damage: Bite 1d8+5, Claws 1d6+2 Special Attacks: Fearful Gaze, Pounce, Improved Grab, Rake 1d6+1, Bay, Rage Special Qualities: Dark Vision, Scent, Stone Sleep Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft. Saves: Fort +10, Ref +5, Will +3 Abilities: Str 20, Dex 12, Con 19, Int 7, Wis 14, Chr 14 Skills: Climb +16, Hide +4, Jump +10, Listen +4, Move Silent +8, Spot +4 Feats: Alertness, Great Fortitude, Multiattack, Weapon Focus (Bite & Claw) Climate/Terrain: Any Mountains, and Hills Challenge Rating: 5 Organization: Patrol (2-5) Treasure: None Alignment: Usually Lawful Neutral Advancement: By Character Class On some rare instances a gargoyle is born with a deformity. He is born as a quadraped, with canine-like features. He is not viewed with disdain, or sympathy. He is simply another rookery sibling to the clan. Although born without wings, he has several unique abilities of his own. Though he cannot speak other than grunts and howls, he can understand the language of his clan perfectly. Pounce (Ex): If the gargoyle leaps upon a foe during the first round of combat, it can make a full attack even if it has already taken a move action. Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability the gargoyle must hit with its bite attack. If it gets a hold it can rake. Rake (Ex): A gargoyle can make two rake attacks (+10 melee) against a held creature with its hind legs for 1d6+1 damage each. If a gargoyle pounces on an opponent, it can also rake. Bay (Su): When a gargoyle barks or howls, all creatures except other gargoyles within a 300-foot spread must make a Will save (DC14) or become panicked for 2d4 rounds. This is a sonic, mind-affecting fear effect. Whether the save is successful or not, an affected creature is immune to that gargoyle’s bay for one day. Rage (Ex): Whenever a gargoyle is angered or enters combat, there is a 50% chance that he will fly into a rage. He gains a +4 bonus to Strength, but suffers a -4 penalty to Armor Class. This lasts for the duration of the Encounter. While in a rage the gargoyle’s fearful gaze is constantly in effect. Fearful Gaze (Su): When an opponent looks into the eyes of an angered gargoyle they must succeed at a Willpower Save (DC 14). Failure indicates that they are panicked for 2d4 rounds (As per the fear effect in the DMG). Stone Sleep (Su): While the sun is out the gargoyle turns to stone. They are very succeptible to attacks while in this form. While in stone form they are treated as stonework for all purposes and they have a hardness of 8. Hit Points equal to their normal maximum, and a Break DC of 35. Any damage done to them while in this form is permanent. Only a Regeneration, Heal, or Miracle/Wish spell can restore this damage. On the positive side, any damage that is dealt to them while in flesh form is completely healed during their stone sleep as if a Heal spell as been cast on them.
Beleriphon 06-24-03, 07:00 PM	Don't forget that with the Gargoyles steel like claws they could climb the sides of just about anything that wasn't made of metal. I remember in a number of episodes where the whole group climbed up the side of Riker... I mean Xanatos' building.
DevaNinja 06-24-03, 10:53 PM	I think that would be self evident since I gave them a climb movement rate, and a nice climb skill dont you think?
Oberon_of_Avalon 06-24-03, 11:13 PM	I made a version of Gargoyles for one of my worlds, though yours are considerably closer to the Disney portrayals. That was an awesome series, by the way. My favorite was Brooklyn. I also had a rogue/sorcerer who went by Puck and later on an epic wizard named Oberon. :D I'm so cheap. One thing I'd at least include for nit-picky reasons is that using the Fear Gaze is an attack action or something similar. That would prevent some abuse, as well as support the fact that most gargoyles have to put a little effort into it.
DevaNinja 06-24-03, 11:35 PM	Well, The Fear Gaze is a supernatural ability, which requires a standard action to activate (The exception is when they fly into a rage, which is still a standard action, but you get a two for one I guess). There were a few episodes where the just used their gaze to scare the bejeusus out of some people.
DevaNinja 07-03-03, 08:30 PM	Perhaps I should also add in the text " They can climb, flat, smooth vertical surfaces at their climb rate". Also for those that wish to make them playably, make Barbarian they're favored class. That's all the revisions for now!