Post/Author/DateTime	Post
hussey_graham 03-31-05, 08:31 PM	The vampires in the monster manual stink. Not too bad as a monster but as a character style. The fact that its a class and not a sub-race or enhancement gets me mad. The way they have been written up bothers me and I think it has to be changed. I'm not here to get it changed but since I use them in my campaigns I would like to know if anyone has any good ideas on how I should rewrite them? Thanks
Bane 03-31-05, 08:36 PM	Vampires are an acquired template, not a class.
Pure Evil 03-31-05, 08:40 PM	Wow I couldn't agree more! They are basicly impossible to kill unless you have some magic weapon with light damage or if you have the abilitie to destroy undead. They should be a race... to change them give them diffent weaknesses and strengths. Don't let your players start off as a vampire make them get bit and only later, dont give them the oppertunity though, maybey even change them like they where in blade, a hybred race.
old friend 03-31-05, 08:41 PM	watch an old dracula film, all will make sense
R.M.G.C.L.F. 03-31-05, 08:45 PM	Dungeons and Dragons vampires are based on the old, old vampire lore, before Ann Rice and Hollywood. They are not good characters because they are not meant to be characters. They are vampires, extremely supernatural beings, great powers combined with crippling weaknesses. Basically if you know the rules for fighting a vampire, you can stay alive and probably do a good job at killing it. If you don't, you're spawn.
Pure Evil 03-31-05, 08:48 PM	I agree vampires are not suposed to be played as characters and yet every time I play at least 1 person is trying to be a vampire..... mostly for the crazy benifits
R.M.G.C.L.F. 03-31-05, 08:53 PM	I agree vampires are not suposed to be played as characters and yet every time I play at least 1 person is trying to be a vampire..... mostly for the crazy benifits Well, the first step is, when they say they want to play a vampire, to whap them over the head with a large book. Draconomicon and the primary Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book seem to work the best. After they regain conciousness, remind them of the crippling weaknesses to deal with. A prime example is the "cannot enter a private residence unless invited by somebody with the authority to do so" clause. It's really hard to raid a castle or storm the temple of a dark cleric when you have to knock on the door and say "excuse me, would you mind letting me come in so I can kill you?"
Pure Evil 03-31-05, 08:58 PM	Its funny cause its true! :D
Pure Evil 03-31-05, 09:01 PM	In a rescent campaing I "annoyed" a guild of vampires and they are propbably going to come back and bite me in the....neck lol So what would you say is the best weapon/thing to kill them with?
Bane 03-31-05, 09:02 PM	That's why vampires should be wizards. You can write gibberish down on a note, and cast Illusory Script with yourself as the only person allowed to read it. If someone else reads it, they get the Suggestion to invite in the man standing at their front door. They invite you in, you crush them like a bug, and you take the note with you for future use.
hussey_graham 03-31-05, 09:02 PM	Vampires should be less queer (no mean to offend any homsexuals). They are too messed. Yes I know I'm thinking holywood vampires but I like them. Holywood vampires are cool but don't have enough negatives. I just wish there was a better template and instead of levels in vampire it should be "vampire" as a sub race or a upgrade. There should be no spawn.
hussey_graham 03-31-05, 09:05 PM	In a rescent campaing I "annoyed" a guild of vampires and they are propbably going to come back and bite me in the....neck lol So what would you say is the best weapon/thing to kill them with? Thats a good question... any suggestions guys? But Daniel (AKA pure evil) as your DM I can't tell you... hahaha
otomik 03-31-05, 09:09 PM	I think they're pretty cool, old school. I'd hate for them to be as detailed and varied as dragons, vamps are done to death at this point.
Pure Evil 03-31-05, 09:12 PM	Agreed, almost to cheesy at this point, but any suggesion on how to kill?
Arcane Drow 03-31-05, 09:16 PM	I personally think that vampires, and many other templates, are used by unimaginative wash-ups to add flare to otherwise boring, weak, badly made unoriginal characters. This isn't an exclusive club or anything, I've seen some truly astouding vampire characters who were also pretty fearsome without all the added abilities, but there are a whole bunch of rule reciting losers who don't actually role-play who use templates such as the Vampire one as a crutch. That's all I have to rant about for now.
Pure Evil 03-31-05, 09:22 PM	In all the campaings there have been at least one character that has decided to play a vampire for that exact reason...they feel giulty about changing their character 10 times so satisfy their displesure they use the vampire as a boost to make their pathetic excuse for a character adaquite. Players should not have the option to become vampires... vampires should be strictly a monster that is not a option! And once again... any suggestions on how to exterminate a mob of "annoyed" vampires?
Olly 04-01-05, 05:53 AM	In all the campaings there have been at least one character that has decided to play a vampire for that exact reason...they feel giulty about changing their character 10 times so satisfy their displesure they use the vampire as a boost to make their pathetic excuse for a character adaquite. Players should not have the option to become vampires... vampires should be strictly a monster that is not a option! And once again... any suggestions on how to exterminate a mob of "annoyed" vampires? Well, I'm sad to see that somebody has dredged up this debate again, but never mind. You want to know how to exterminate a nest of vampires, do ye? Well, of course, the best thing to do would not to have annoyed them in the first place, but seems like you're way past that. I recommend investing in a holy water and a little book called Van Richten's Arsenal! ;)
Derren S. 04-01-05, 06:27 AM	I actually like the D&D Vampires. They are way better than the White Wolf vampires for examples. Vampires, like all other undead, should be monsters, not characters. And it doesn't bother me that they are a template. This actually makes sense that with so many different races arround that vampires aren't all uniform but vary depending on the base race.
otomik 04-01-05, 07:24 AM	i like the fact that they must be invited in, they are depicted as noble/lawful creatures. As for killing vampires what works for me (playing a cleric of the red knight), present my holy symbol in an ostentacious manner (that usually does something to them) then if they persist blast them with Searing Light (which does 1d8/level against vamps, ranged touch, no save). You should actually figure it out in character, because if you just suddenly think up that stuff it's pretty lame.
Nephlite 04-01-05, 07:29 AM	watch an old dracula film, all will make sense Actually Dracula was a Vampire Lord: When a Vampire has survived so many assasssination attempts he can be come a Vampire Lord. You get new powers and stuff, pretty cool Anyway, I do think vamps in general should mostly be Vamp spawns or fighting weach other.(seing as the DMG says 99% of people are level 1 characters, which makes them spawn candidates)
Evil Wizard 04-01-05, 10:29 AM	Posted by Pure Evil And once again... any suggestions on how to exterminate a mob of "annoyed" vampires? Stay inside your house and throw holy water at them until they go away. They can't come inside, so you're mostly safe. Also consider luring them onto a riverboat and then burning down the boat. You can swim, they can't. Better, if you know where they live, just force your way in during the daytime and stake them as they sleep. Vampires are scary, but their weaknesses are exploitable. Use them.
otomik 04-01-05, 01:06 PM	Also consider luring them onto a riverboat and then burning down the boat. You can swim, they can't.That could be the seed of a new vampire movie, western vampires with a big riverboat high stakes gambling scene at the end, very cheesy. Reminds me of the Tales from the Crypt movie with dennis miller.
kliate 04-01-05, 01:19 PM	Disintegrate the roof of wherever they're staying, and let the sun shine in.
Finarin Panjoro 04-01-05, 01:58 PM	There's a very good reason that vampire spawn exist. If they didn't, then a 1st level commoner would become a vampire with...gasp...6 hp. Vampire Spawn exist so that there aren't hordes of unbelievably weak vampires running around the countryside getting chewed up like candy by first level adventurers. A vampire spawn is just a weaker vampire. They still remember who they were and act intelligently. A single vampire spawn dominated the entire 4th level party that I DM for and they only survived because her master had plans to use the PCs and ordered her not to kill them all. Also you should note that vampires have an excellent method of getting around the "only enter when invited in" rule. They can still dominate someone with the authority to invite them in and order them to do so. As players I would think not crossing running water (streams, rivers, canals, aqueducts, etc) and the requirement to sleep in YOUR coffin every day would be the much bigger impediments to play.
Hochi-min trail 04-01-05, 02:39 PM	Since everyone have given their thoughts about Vampires, I'ld like two share my to cents, so here: First of all, the coffin thing always bothered me. I know it's the most authentic thing about them, but it seems so... well... stupid. I always tried to look at vampires differently than an evil chaotic creature that wants to kill. I see vampires as intelligent, rulers of the undeath, with great powers. I see them having their own homes, no coffins, and ways of life that vary from poor to richest in the world. In my world, vampires are a race that with help of the gods left the undead race and become a semi-living (template) race of their own. They have a racial class, which they can take levels in. When someone is bitten and becomes a vampire, he simply begins to take levels in that class. The class is built on two things - Rages, same as barabrian, and Blood Points, which activate their powers. Their powers are different from one another, depending on what powers they choose and how powerful they want each one to be. They still have most of the weaknesses, but still it's only because I thought I had to keep some tredition. This is of course inspired by White WOolf, since i love their interpetation to vampires. I also made a racial class to their nemesis race, the Werecreatures.
Vod 04-01-05, 03:18 PM	so far I agree with whats been said on both sides, It bugs the crap out of me when I start training some level 1 people going adventuring for the first time and I have like 4 people going "can you make me a vampire" to which I want to either whack them with a heavy DM book (I think the monster manuel makes it most ironic) or hit them in the face with a large pie, the old old movie vampires we're great but these new, van helsing vampire just plain suck and dungeons and dragons keeps their vampires away from them, great for DnD (although it's weird because my guy is a wererat so...yeah, I use a template to, but not by choice)
Loren Soth 04-01-05, 03:43 PM	I have always been a fan of the "classic" vampires, and undead lords in general (Death Knights, Liches, Mummy Kings, etc.), but there is no denying the bend towards the "racial vampires" that Hollywood seems to have made popular (Thanks to movies like the Blade Trilogy, Underworld, and Van Helsing). These are not the true, mythological, undead from history. That was one of the things I thought was nice about the Ravenloft campaign setting; they managed to appease both sides of the coin with the "standard" Vampires as well as having a race of blood-sucking humanoids called "Vampyres." These were the goth, sunglass wearing, "I was born this way" vampires from Hollywood. I don't have the 3E Ravenloft monster book on hand at the moment (at work), so I'm not sure if they were converted to 3E, but it can't be that hard.
otomik 04-01-05, 05:41 PM	sean k. reynolds has fleshbound vampires on his site, which are much more hollywood. http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/monsters/fleshboundvampire_3p5.html
Count Arioch the 28th 04-01-05, 09:27 PM	Stay inside your house and throw holy water at them until they go away. They can't come inside, so you're mostly safe. Also consider luring them onto a riverboat and then burning down the boat. You can swim, they can't. Better, if you know where they live, just force your way in during the daytime and stake them as they sleep. Vampires are scary, but their weaknesses are exploitable. Use them. You know, vampires can have dominated living beings helping them (In fact, most do. It's pretty cool to send your minion ogre barbarian in the house to smash things, like the people throwing holy water on you.)
awiler 04-01-05, 10:06 PM	i went through this post and read it, and you know what? Its freaking hilarious, I dont know why, it just is. Vampires as a pc is kinda wrong, unless you have an evil undead campaign where you and your pals only move about at night, that isnt too rare, but still kinda stupid.
Vaalingrade Ashland 04-01-05, 10:30 PM	A couple of alternative vamps can be found below. My main beefs are the alway alignment for an intellegent creature and energy drain crap. Plus, DnD vamps don't actually need to drink blood at all. So I made a couple vamps for Ere, the more traditional True Vampire and the Hellsing inspired Vaiackurian. http://www.worldofere.com/monsters.htm
Pure Evil 04-01-05, 10:52 PM	Since everyone have given their thoughts about Vampires, I'ld like two share my to cents, so here: First of all, the coffin thing always bothered me. I know it's the most authentic thing about them, but it seems so... well... stupid. I always tried to look at vampires differently than an evil chaotic creature that wants to kill. I see vampires as intelligent, rulers of the undeath, with great powers. I see them having their own homes, no coffins, and ways of life that vary from poor to richest in the world. In my world, vampires are a race that with help of the gods left the undead race and become a semi-living (template) race of their own. They have a racial class, which they can take levels in. When someone is bitten and becomes a vampire, he simply begins to take levels in that class. The class is built on two things - Rages, same as barabrian, and Blood Points, which activate their powers. Their powers are different from one another, depending on what powers they choose and how powerful they want each one to be. They still have most of the weaknesses, but still it's only because I thought I had to keep some tredition. I couldn't agree more, that is exactly how I see vampires, as people, not mindless bloodsuckers! I see them as the classic cheesy werewolves, normal people by day (teacher, doctor, lawyer) but by night they hunt and stalk to feed! So much more cool. Thanks for all the help on how to get rid of my vampire problems, but I read up on some light spells (searing light) and would much prefer to blast them in the streets than hide in my home in a bath of holy water. lol But thats for the general weaknesses.
R.M.G.C.L.F. 04-01-05, 11:47 PM	Well, the Plebian Vampire is a vampire variant I made with fewer vampire powers and weaknesses. The problem is I kinda went overboard so there isn't much vampire left. >> The don't even die in daylight, they just get a -1 to attack rolls. Of course they can be killed with normal damage.
Arcane Drow 04-07-05, 09:16 PM	Having followed this thread since its beginnig, I think we can all agree on one thing: D&D vampires suck and need to be changed. Having said that, I think that whoever made the vampire template that's in the Monster Manual has done a much better job than some other half-assed attempts made by others (not that there aren't a couple really good ones out floating about). I like the idea that someone brought up where vampires can bbe tailored to fit certain characters by buying points in vampiric ability (like in the Whitewolf version). Anyways, I still hold on my original position that vampires are too often used to spice up boring characters. Also, please keep posting tips on how to kill vampires, I think Pure Evil is going to sucker me into helping him on that one.
otomik 04-08-05, 12:59 AM	i disagree, don't change D&D vampires, they're just a bit more classical than you're used to. please lets not emulate white wolf, their way of doing vampires is different because their game is very different. as for vampire slaying tips: it should be pretty obvious from the SRD description.
Vaalingrade Ashland 04-08-05, 01:17 AM	They drain energy. No western vampire has ever done that, nor should one ever.
Zyfax 04-08-05, 04:10 AM	ömm... have you read the original dracula? vampires drain energy. I for one hate the goth-vampires that are waaay too popular over here. in fact, they are silly. dnd vampires catches the classic feel and allows for really powerful monsters. haven't used them yet, but will.
Olly 04-08-05, 05:47 AM	Heh... I love these fourteen year old kids who think they know all about vampires because they've seen Interview With The Vampire. They're so cute and ignorant. :rolleyes:
Khan the Destroyer 04-08-05, 12:43 PM	Well, a vampire's weaknesses are listed right in the Monster Manual. If you really feel threatened, you could take the fight to the vampire guild during the day, when they are sleeping. Most likely you will have to fight minions guarding them (at least, you should have to) but they will be easier to defeat than a whole bunch of vampires. If you get past the minions, stake and decapitate the sleeping vampires. If they get the jump on you, try Leomund's Secure Shelter (if you have a caster). The vampires cannot enter the building without permission, so you have a bunker to attack them from. Also, I believe Mirrors hold vampires at bay, disallowing them from attacking you (but allowing them to attack someone else, I don't have my books on me). Then there is the standard light spells, garlic, and running water, plus holy water. I like the D&D vampires, they certainly do capture the feel of classic vampires (although I do have a problem with the Chaotic Evil alignment). Quite frankly, I am sick of these lame-ass vampires showing up all over movies recently. They are all feral, hissing, powerless idiots that die easily and utterly fail to capture anything even closely resembling a traditional vampire. Blade Vampires: We have no power at all, except to disintegrate when touched with SILVER. Awesome! Van Helsing Vampires: We are harpies, and large demonic things. And our children are imps. Underworld Vampires: We can jump, and hiss like cats. Plus we are S.W.A.T. W00T! Lame. I can't remember seeing a vampire I liked in movies recently. Actually, I did like the portrayal of Dracula in Dracula 2000. But Bram Stoker's Dracula is still the most badass. Beyond that I don't know.
Vaalingrade Ashland 04-08-05, 07:09 PM	Heh... I love these fourteen year old kids who think they know all about vampires because they've seen Interview With The Vampire. They're so cute and ignorant. :rolleyes: You're the one being supremely ignorant here. I've had two years of Myth and World Relgion, so maybe you want to hold that venomous tongue. A few things about the vampires of Western myth: - They weren't undead. They were demons or spirits of nature. - They weren't sapient. Not until the Victorian Age, when all mythologial monsters got an upgrade in the enlightenment department were vampires even really said to be capable of speech. - They didn't drink blood. They slaughtered children of hertic and ate thier livers. Once again, the victorians got rid of the gory legends for the much cleaner blood sucking. - Claws, not fangs. Vampires of old legend killed by simply tearing you open with claws on feet and hands. - No bats. - Invisibility to animals. Old vampires were said to completely bypass the keen senses of guard and hunting animals. - Werewolves a couple old werewolf mythos, commonly the aversion to sunlight, the invitation requirement, the status as once living and transmutation were fused to vampires for reasons not entirely clear.
Arcane Drow 04-08-05, 09:21 PM	Woh! Hold the books everyone! Let's not all get all high and mighty because we've had 2 years of classes at a community college in the middle of nowhere. This is Dungeons and Dragons, a casual pastime to be played amongst friends. Since when do you have to have a degree in Myth and World Religion to have a valid opinion on a role-playing game set in whatever place your dm decides? My point is you don't have to know where the real-world myth comes from to have a well formulated opinion on something that happens in a fantasy world. I seem to be more and more bitter recently.
Vaalingrade Ashland 04-08-05, 09:33 PM	Woh! Hold the books everyone! Let's not all get all high and mighty because we've had 2 years of classes at a community college in the middle of nowhere. University, one of the top 20 in the nation, MWC/UMW. Cute, but you fail.
Lord Tarran 04-08-05, 09:49 PM	True Classic: Rending monsters of evil spirits that would murder you indiscriminately, and then eat your children, or livers (Hannibal anyone?) Classic: Dracula style, I'm so bad ass I can stare you down, and you are not killing me, ever. More seductive than brutal, another form of the incubus for all intents and purposes. Classic, updated: Though they retain their old seductiveness, and their mighty murdering skills, these vampires were gifted with animal control, night powers, mist, etc. (Closest to D&D vampire.) The Vamp: Angel/Buffy style NORMAL vampire. Essentially, an intelligent form of the True classic. Suere strong, fast, etc, but not too bright, or long lived. Probably the easiest to kill as well (excluding Blade Vamps, which simply do not count.) The Vamp, elder: Angelus, Spike, Drusila, etc. The ones who were truly bad ass in Pop Culture TV vampires. Smart, powerful, and depraved, but without real powers (ignore the Dracula episode of course, he was a CLassic updated). Closest thing to the Classic Updated that Pop Culture offers on television. The Vamp, uber: These are those monster vamps found in the final seasons of Buffy. Near impossible to kill, bestial, non intelligent. An update of the True Classic. The Master could be considered a weak uber. The Vampire, Ricean: Lestat, the Queen, etc. Seductive, kinda raunchy, fanged death dealers. Standard Pop Culture Book vampire. Blade Vamp, standard: Humans with fangs that are slain when touched by silver. Ooh Aah! Blade Vamp, elder: Toned down verions of The Vamp, uber. Blade Vamp, uber: Blade 2 killer vamps. Pop cultures movie unkillable vamp. Equal to the Vamp, uber, at normal strength. Van Helsing Vampire: They don't even classify, as far as I'm concerned. To much of a departure from the vampire mold. But, essentially, can come out in day light if cloudy, need to be hit in the heart, can breed, and generally are dumb. Underworld/White Wolf Vampire: Weakened the Vamp, elder. Intelligent, powerful, but pathetic when compared to the werewolves of the world. As decadent as Classic though, and act the same just without the powers. I miss any?
Vaalingrade Ashland 04-08-05, 10:00 PM	I miss any? Just for fun: Sesame Street Vampire: Counting obsession as the Oriental Vampire. No longer allowed to laugh while counting :( Bunny Vampire: Drains the juices from produce. Harmless. Sluggy Vampire: As 'traditional' vampire, but requires a three day, plot building ceremony to turn humans. Hellsing Vampire, chipped (Freak): As traditional, but retain all human traits, plus a flair for the dramatic. Hellsing Vampire, chipped (Bat-beast): No other powers but Str +20 Hellsing Vampire, true: Apperently demons with Divine Rank 2+. Run. Can-pire (Real Life comics): Nerds who accedentally broke the tab off thier Pepsi(tm) can.
R.M.G.C.L.F. 04-08-05, 10:40 PM	You're the one being supremely ignorant here. I've had two years of Myth and World Relgion, so maybe you want to hold that venomous tongue. A few things about the vampires of Western myth: - They weren't undead. They were demons or spirits of nature. - They weren't sapient. Not until the Victorian Age, when all mythologial monsters got an upgrade in the enlightenment department were vampires even really said to be capable of speech. - They didn't drink blood. They slaughtered children of hertic and ate thier livers. Once again, the victorians got rid of the gory legends for the much cleaner blood sucking. - Claws, not fangs. Vampires of old legend killed by simply tearing you open with claws on feet and hands. - No bats. - Invisibility to animals. Old vampires were said to completely bypass the keen senses of guard and hunting animals. - Werewolves a couple old werewolf mythos, commonly the aversion to sunlight, the invitation requirement, the status as once living and transmutation were fused to vampires for reasons not entirely clear. Well then the things your talking about are not vampires. The very word vampire stems from an old word for "bat-like". If they aren't spirits risen from the grave to feed on the life fluid of the living, then they aren't vampires.
Vaalingrade Ashland 04-08-05, 11:01 PM	Retroactive naming. The Catholic church (The source of a quite a few of the extra trappings that got added to vamps, obviously) declared the previous tales of monsters to be the same demons as the 'present' (relative) tales were. This was all back in the day, when everything had an explaination and couldn't possibly be just parents scaring dicipline into thier kids :)
otomik 04-09-05, 01:58 AM	wow, you must really love vampires more than most of us. follow your bliss. For a lot of people though it's as if you'd said D&D has bad Owlbears. a publisher can't possibly satisfy everyone's notion of what a vampire should be like. yes, their vampire may seem a bit dated in that it doesn't reflect the most ancient myths or the current hollywood incarnations of vampires. D&D has Strahd and therefore has at least one awesome vampire.
lugnut71 04-09-05, 02:45 AM	Really the only thing I dislike is the energy drain. Everything else is fine as far as I'm concerned and the energy drain is easy to drop.
Tenzhi 04-09-05, 03:16 AM	Yar. I don't like the energy drain myself - but that's because I don't like level loss in general. I'd much rather western-style vampires did Constitution and/or Strength damage. But I prefer the Chinese "hopping vampire" anyway.
Lina_Inverse 04-09-05, 03:27 AM	the energy drain is a hold over from OD&D,when basiclly all undead perma drained levels no save(ACK!i never fought vamps in those,never never.i just fled!2 levels/hit=bad)bout the only thing that needs cutting. if a player in my games asked to be a vampire,i would laugh evily and gladly let him.then smack him with penalty after penalty for it.he has an LA of +7,so he gets less exp and needs to make up for it,but thats just the begging.i would enforce every penalty the vampire posseses logically,thats alot of crippleing weaknesses.further more id remind him is now CE and may not choose to be otherwise,his curse overrides freewill,i will dock him exp for cheating whenever he fails to act CE.
Tenzhi 04-09-05, 04:25 AM	further more id remind him is now CE and may not choose to be otherwise,his curse overrides freewill Even a creature with "always" in their alignment description may be a different alignment than what is listed.
Soel Griffin 04-09-05, 05:05 AM	The very word vampire stems from an old word for "bat-like". If they aren't spirits risen from the grave to feed on the life fluid of the living, then they aren't vampires. The creature-type that inspired the name existed long before in legend and folk-lore. I personally prefer the depiction in the old Nosferatu movie. There really is room for all types in D&D. If you don't like one, then muck with the abilities a little, or give it some new ones.
Vahenir 04-09-05, 06:04 AM	Go out and buy Fang & Fury by Green Ronin Publishing. An interesting new treatment of Vampires and advice for all nifty things Vampiric. It's a very good book, I own it - and it made me actually want to include vampires in my setting.
Sigurd van Norhusen 04-09-05, 07:13 AM	I personally prefer the depiction in the old Nosferatu movie. Hell yes. Count Orlock is not one of those prissy goth wannabees, he's actually a soulless, blood-sucking, plague-like monster. It's been 80 years since that movie was made, and I have yet to see a better vampire. While we are already at it. I keep reading about how the old Nosferatu movie (1922) was the first time a vampire was depicted as being vulnerable to sunlight. Is that true, or is someone trying to put more fame into the movie than it should have?
MinusInnocence 04-09-05, 08:50 AM	Shadow of the Vampire with Willem Dafoe was absolutely fabulous. I highly recommend it to anyone who was wondering more about what the vampire from Nosferatu was like when the camera wasn't rolling.
Dan Hemmens 04-09-05, 10:14 AM	Hell yes. Count Orlock is not one of those prissy goth wannabees, he's actually a soulless, blood-sucking, plague-like monster. It's been 80 years since that movie was made, and I have yet to see a better vampire. While we are already at it. I keep reading about how the old Nosferatu movie (1922) was the first time a vampire was depicted as being vulnerable to sunlight. Is that true, or is someone trying to put more fame into the movie than it should have? Not certain, but Dracula definitely wasn't, he was just relatively powerless by day. Not certain about Ruthven (slightly pre-dracula, same general mold). Vaalingrade Ashland: I take your points about "original mythology" (and I was going to post something similar myself...), although I assume you recognise that the further back you go, the more muddled the mythologies get. I'm fairly sure that there were myths of creatures with fangs that drank blood, that otherwise fit into the "loathsome bestial demon" mould that went back some way before Stoker.
Darkmeer 04-09-05, 11:18 AM	Okay, my view. D&D Vampires are D&D Vampires. I think that they fit a specific role that works well within the confines of the D&D environment. Using the rending of flesh idea is okay, as well as the spirit (Outsider/Extraplanar type), even removing the energy drain. The fact is that Vamps are supposed to be tough sons of guns, and I have yet to see a PC smile when he sees yet another Vampire. My view on Vampires is sort of a maturing vampire (see Legacy of Kain, Soul Reaver or Ravenloft) to be tougher and meaner. I take the Victorian view on classic Vampires. I like WW vamps, and sometimes change the template to view that, but as nature spirits (more of a Van Helsing type), I'd use some sort of Fey mixed with a Vamp template (no level drain, but claws and invisble to animals). Still tough but maybe a Fey or Outsider type. Based on these sources, the D&D vampires don't really meet up to expectations, but that's why they get class levels to customize them. :twocents:
bomaz 04-09-05, 11:44 AM	oh let all the players that want to be vamps. lets see a cleric of pelor with the sun domain and 2 lvls more than the partys lvl. lvl adj included. KABOOM no player. he CAN'T really fail to destroy the players. To flee from a mob of vamps, temple of pelor? high lvl clerics. I like the DnD vamps, but as a player I would prefer a lich. Less penalties and you return if killed. now the whole vamp debate going on if a dm want to change them he decides. A player vamp can be eradicated so easily that it's no point in making one.
pseudoidiot 04-09-05, 12:12 PM	just curious. people keep mentioning the bit about vampires not being able to come in unless you invite them. and, yes, i've heard that bit of folklore as well, but is it in the rules anywhere? looking at the vampire template in the MM, it doesn't say anything about that. just the stake bit, sunlight, running water, and all that. i realize it's more flavorful to add other known vampire trivia to what they are in d&d, but if you're just playing the d&d vampire right out of the monster manual then that's not going to work. unless i'm wrong, at that aspect is described there (or maybe in a supplement?)
Sigurd van Norhusen 04-09-05, 12:31 PM	Shadow of the Vampire with Willem Dafoe was absolutely fabulous. I highly recommend it to anyone who was wondering more about what the vampire from Nosferatu was like when the camera wasn't rolling. Max Schreck (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Schreck) was a real human being, you know? I don't know where the dumb myth started that he was really a vampire, but if he was one, like Shadow of the Vampire suggests, then he would have not been able to survive the movie. Why? Because they were always making it during daytime, even the night scenes. At the times, making a movie at night was simply impossible. pseudoidiot, I do not remember seeing it in any 3rd Edition rules, but it was in the 2nd edition Van Richten's Guide to Vampires (best source book ever). I assume it has been (among with most flavor) lost during the edition transition.
Khan the Destroyer 04-09-05, 12:46 PM	just curious. people keep mentioning the bit about vampires not being able to come in unless you invite them. and, yes, i've heard that bit of folklore as well, but is it in the rules anywhere? looking at the vampire template in the MM, it doesn't say anything about that. just the stake bit, sunlight, running water, and all that. i realize it's more flavorful to add other known vampire trivia to what they are in d&d, but if you're just playing the d&d vampire right out of the monster manual then that's not going to work. unless i'm wrong, at that aspect is described there (or maybe in a supplement?) It is in the Monster Manual, page 253, under the "Repelling a Vampire" header.
Steel Dragon 04-09-05, 02:49 PM	While I don't care for the Vampire Template too much - I do like what the Ravenloft books have done for Vampires (especially Elder. Salient Powers are always very nice to have.) Otherwise, I don't really mind the D&D Vampires in a D&D World. When I want to GM Vampires though, I'll gladly switch over to WW: VtM (havn't tried VtR yet).
Kor'Valesh 04-10-05, 02:13 PM	Well i personally love vampires, i dont see the problem with people playing as them, then you could go on about lycanthrooes and the fact that cursts cant be killed except for remove curse and then theres liches etc The fact of the matter is that anyone wanting to be undead should have the right too, i play a vamp, io have a curst freind and a werebear, we also have a senile old man :) Anyway people should quit their whinging, il say no more
Donraj 04-10-05, 05:20 PM	Bunny Vampire: Drains the juices from produce. Harmless. Bunnicula! Sorry, I had to say it. I haven't thought of those books in years. Thanks.
hussey_graham 04-12-05, 04:13 PM	Heh... I love these fourteen year old kids who think they know all about vampires because they've seen Interview With The Vampire. They're so cute and ignorant. :rolleyes: Hmm... well I'm not 14 and no not like all the teenagers nowadays I tend to search over what I'm looking at. I'm just saying that I personaly feel that the vampires in the monster manual arn't properly done. I'm just looking for information or opinions on HOW TO MAKE THEM MORE HOLYWOOD PLAYABLE. So before any of you "know-it-all" rule lawyers go off on me because I don't feel like having a vampire that deosn't fit my world. So instead of spending your time and my patience defending something that I'M NOT EVEN ATTACKING why don't you go and answer other posts and bother other people. Thanks...
hussey_graham 04-12-05, 04:31 PM	Well I have now read all up to date. So then I have to thank all of you who were nice to give me your honest opinions without going into a huge rant about what YOU think I am and how YOU think I am thinking. For those who go into huge historical findings, creative jokes, endless and pointless details, those who recite rules and the ones who enjoy wipping a pretty-sounding diploma I have a few comments: -First of all, this is a role playing GAME -This is a board where we go over the game, not about how you think your better then everyone else -My title did not ask for you who completly disagree with me to rant me out for having my own opinion. We do live where were we have the freedome of speech -I may a teenager but, as some people have come to know, that deosn't make me clueless, stupid or wrong. -and last note, hopefully the last time I will repeat this ITS A GAME Thanks...
Nyat 04-12-05, 08:27 PM	I personally like the DnD vamps because of the classic non-Hollywood feel. And I think it makes sense for them to have the full power of the vampire (spawn) template applied when you are bitten, since its bite invests you with power. What I like even more is this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20021018a) which I noticed was mentioned earlier. IMHO vampires shouldn't be playable because of how easily broken they are. A vampire could go to small towns and easily drain everyone, repeat this and he soon has an army of vampire spawns, slowly go after larger and larger targets, retreating underground at night, and you can do massive damage to a campaign world.
UMCPWintermute 04-12-05, 09:01 PM	However, the first time a vampire walks into a town and starts draining people, the town guard and the local cleric/paladin are chasing after him with holy symbols and whatever else - and if that doesn't work, calling in larger bodies of clerics. That's why it's to a vampire's benefit not to try to take over whole towns, but instead get a few people every now and then to be spawns.
Nyat 04-12-05, 09:14 PM	However, the first time a vampire walks into a town and starts draining people, the town guard and the local cleric/paladin are chasing after him with holy symbols and whatever else - and if that doesn't work, calling in larger bodies of clerics. That's why it's to a vampire's benefit not to try to take over whole towns, but instead get a few people every now and then to be spawns. I'm talking about small-small towns, ones that have nobody that could really oppose you. And in that case you go after whatever low level clerics they have first...while they're sleeping.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 04-12-05, 10:05 PM	Sluggy Vampire: As 'traditional' vampire, but requires a three day, plot building ceremony to turn humans. Only the Lysinda Circle. (And the Sam Cirkail Mamajama.) The others are more Buffy-ish.
hussey_graham 04-13-05, 07:16 PM	I like the template as a template, but for my campaign I'm going to be writting in some things and out some others. I want them to be a little more "modern" so that I can have a slightly better grasp on them. and by reworking them I can add some things that my players (not to be mentioned since my players enjoy looking at my posts) will not know about. I now see that the spawn are really good, I will leave them basicly as is but might mod anything that won't be noticible in the full vampire. As for the vampire I think I might add a thing that if they are brought to between -1 and -10 then will become vapor... but if brought directly from +1 to below -10 then they die and become ash! Any other suggestions guys? And as for the taking over a town, it would work if its a small town (ex. fishing village) that way there is very little chance of having a cleric near by. But if any other town, well the vampire better be a olympic sprinter!
Nyat 04-13-05, 07:27 PM	And as for the taking over a town, it would work if its a small town (ex. fishing village) that way there is very little chance of having a cleric near by. But if any other town, well the vampire better be a olympic sprinter! Vampires can turn into bats and fly away if need be. But after "recruiting" a large number of fishing villages as well as low level wandering monsters it wouldn't be hard to go after slightly larger targets with low level clerics, mob them or kill them in their sleep. A level 5 cleric wont be able to hold off 100 vampire spawns and one real vampire.
bomaz 04-14-05, 04:07 AM	then he sends a message to his temple can we have 50 good clerics here? sun domain power no vamps left. Done. it is not hte small clerics thats the problem it is the forces that are far stronger taking an intrest in protecting the villages
Nyat 04-14-05, 10:45 AM	then he sends a message to his temple can we have 50 good clerics here? sun domain power no vamps left. Done. it is not hte small clerics thats the problem it is the forces that are far stronger taking an intrest in protecting the villages Yes, but if you act fast enough they never have a chance to send for help, or you make sure that there are patrols of spawns to stop anyone from succesfully fleeing. Even if someone does get by, vampires and their spawn can run pretty fast.
bomaz 04-15-05, 03:17 AM	most likely the small temple often send messages to the big one. when they stop... then there is divination magics there is some message magic possibly a cleric in his own house will not invite the vamps?
sooperspook 04-15-05, 03:49 AM	has anyone noticed that the vampire doesnt (by RAW) even need to bite someone to drain their blood? it just needs to get them into a grapple n pin. Also , theres no limit to the amount of blood a vamp can drain at any one time... we had a vamplayer kill an old black dragon thru blood loss cos he managed to grab hold and autodrain! :rolleyes:
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 04-16-05, 10:14 AM	most likely the small temple often send messages to the big one. when they stop... then there is divination magics there is some message magic Domination, and the cleric keeps sending messages. Or vampirism, if level 5 or above.
hussey_graham 04-16-05, 10:43 AM	A vamp could take over a small fishing town. But it all depends on the amount of magic in the area or in that specific game. If it is low-magic then there is a good chance that the vampire would have a nice spawn army before anyone has enough power to take him on. The again, the magical types tend to work in groups for BIG groups. So there for more then 10 clerics would show up to take this "army" on. In the end, I'd say it be one cool fight. Depending on the game either side could win
jukar 04-16-05, 11:55 AM	If a player of mine ever demanded to be made a vampire, I would just quickly slap together a Chupacabra template just to teach them a lesson.