Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ranger-99 05-02-06, 01:36 PM	All angels have the Protective Aura ability, which among other things functions as a lesser Globe of Invulnerability. This globe effect, as per the spell, causes 3rd level spells and spell-like abilities to cease functioning as long as they are within the globe. I assume an angel is affected by its own aura, else it wouldn't gain the defensive benefits. Angels have a suite of spell-like abilities. The Astral Deva, for example, can cast Invisibility at will, which is a 2nd level spell equivalent. Does this mean that an Astral Deva cannot make itself invisible due to its Protective Aura? The Astral Deva also cannot heal allies with Cure Light Wounds, since that's a 1st level spell equivalent. Are an Astral Deva's own spell-like abilities immune to the effects of its own Protective Aura?
RSBrehm 05-02-06, 01:54 PM	To answer a question with a question. If you cast globe of invulnerability on yourself does that make all of your other magical protections go away? I don't think so. Look it up for me because I am at work now :P -Shaun
Ranger-99 05-02-06, 02:07 PM	I'm at work, too. ;) But, browsing the SRD... "An immobile, faintly shimmering magical sphere surrounds you and excludes all spell effects of 3rd level or lower. The area or effect of any such spells does not include the area of the lesser globe of invulnerability. Such spells fail to affect any target located within the globe. Excluded effects include spell-like abilities and spells or spell-like effects from items. However, any type of spell can be cast through or out of the magical globe. Spells of 4th level and higher are not affected by the globe, nor are spells already in effect when the globe is cast. The globe can be brought down by a targeted dispel magic spell, but not by an area dispel magic. You can leave and return to the globe without penalty. Note that spell effects are not disrupted unless their effects enter the globe, and even then they are merely suppressed, not dispelled. If a given spell has more than one level depending on which character class is casting it, use the level appropriate to the caster to determine whether lesser globe of invulnerability stops it." Having just reread it, my question is sort of answered. It seems to be saying that if you cast a spell with a duration *before* the globe is cast, then they continue to operate. Although it doesn't specifically say so, I have to assume that this only applies to spells cast before the globe, and that are within the globe the moment the globe is cast. So, that implies that the Astral Deva in my example has to lower its Protective Aura, then turn invisible or heal an ally, or whatever, then raise its Protective Aura. That seems kind of weird to me. I would think an Angel would be able to use its own abilities regardless of the aura.
Ranger-99 05-02-06, 02:08 PM	On the other hand, if the Protective Aura only works against evil spells and spell-like abilities, then that would solve the problem. But, I'm not sure if that's how it works. "—Protective Aura (Su): Against attacks made or effects created by evil creatures, this ability provides a +4 deflection bonus to AC and a +4 resistance bonus on saving throws to anyone within 20 feet of the angel. Otherwise, it functions as a magic circle against evil effect and a lesser globe of invulnerability, both with a radius of 20 feet (caster level equals angel’s HD). This aura can be dispelled, but the angel can create it again as a free action on its next turn. (The defensive benefits from the circle are not included in an angel’s statistics block.)" Thoughts?
RSBrehm 05-02-06, 02:30 PM	aaaagggrrrgg... ggaaadd yeah that is going to cause problems. Ironically the next thing my party is doing will be going up against angels (evil party on epic quest) We will be facing a Solar as the deciding moment as to whether or not we get level 21 and become epic. Meh.. this is discouraging lol! Yeah that is a powerful ability. Considering most creatures with that kind of abillity can lower or raise them at will If I was the dm I would rule it only applies to spells not cast by the angel. -Shaun
Ranger-99 05-02-06, 03:58 PM	aaaagggrrrgg... ggaaadd Now, that's a hilarious reaction. ;) yeah that is going to cause problems. Ironically the next thing my party is doing will be going up against angels (evil party on epic quest) We will be facing a Solar as the deciding moment as to whether or not we get level 21 and become epic. Meh.. this is discouraging lol! A Solar, huh? Good luck! All I can say is don't get hit by an arrow. ;) You make it sound like either you defeat the solar and get enough xp to become level 21, or everyone dies. :) Yeah that is a powerful ability. Considering most creatures with that kind of abillity can lower or raise them at will If I was the dm I would rule it only applies to spells not cast by the angel. -Shaun Sounds reasonable to me. Thanks for your replies. :)
RSBrehm 05-02-06, 04:30 PM	Yeah Basically. "Defeat the Solar or everyone dies."
Ranger-99 05-02-06, 06:26 PM	Without knowing anything about your party, I'm guessing you're in for a nasty fight. I don't have any real advice on how you should fight him, since he can do so many different things, is very mobile due to his wings, has good attack bonus, fires slaying arrows, has regeneration, cast spells as a 20th level cleric, has spell-like abilities with caster level 20... Dunno...good luck. Put up high SR, boost all of your saves, boost AC... I guess just swarm the solar and try to keep fighters around him at all times to hinder his spells, spell-like abilities, and archery. Well, I guess you won't really hinder his spellcasting all that much, seeing how he has Concentration +30. ;) Even if you ready attacks to disrupt his spells, he has DR 15/epic and evil. Very unpleasant. Even if you do hurt him, he has Regeneration 15, and only takes damage from epic evil weapons and evil spells. The fighter types really better boost up their Will saves, else they are toast for sure. Solars can cast Imprisonment at will, DC 26. The typical fighter wouldn't make that save very often. Wizards, sorcerers, bards, and rogues better boost their HP any way they can, because the solar can cast Power Word Stun at will. Also, don't group together, because he can cast Waves of Fatigue at will, which doesn't allow a save. Everyone needs to keep their HP up in general, because he can cast power word kill once per day. That's not even half of his abilities. In short, you'll be in for the biggest fight of your lives, probably.
RSBrehm 05-02-06, 07:43 PM	Well For reference 4 of us are Vampires and the other is a Horned Devil (DM edited powers of the Horned Devil to allow him as a PC) The oldest of us is the Horned devil. 15 HD Cornugan with 5 levels of fighter (level 20) I am a level 3 sorc/ 3 cleric/ 14 true necromancer Human Vampire (Lvl 20) One of us is a level 4 fighter/ 12 ranger Elf Vampire (level 16) also level 4 fighter/ 3 Wizard/ 8 Eldrich Knight Elven Vampire (lvl 15) and Level 3 ranger/ 11 scout Elven Vampire (lvl 14) Not to mention I have used Create undead to summon 2 Devourers/ 2 Mohrgs The main problem will be trying to get the vampires inside the Solar's citidel because they cannot enter unless invited. I have alot of death magic so unless these angels throw up some death wards I can make quick work of the Astral Deva's. We are worried about the Planetars and the Solar. That is going to be a tough fight.
Kothardarastrix 05-03-06, 07:06 AM	Easy way to beat that DR, +5 Unholy Weapon and use the Magic Weapon spell.
Maraxus 05-03-06, 08:09 AM	Ah, so only your class level is 20 and your ECL is 28 ... or less. Why do you have that much diffrent levels? You shouldn't do that, it's more fun, if everybody is about equall as good. Oh, and you probably know, that this characterbuild of yours is usually not legal, right? For that party, it should definitly be no problem. Kothardarastrix: No, +5 is not epic.
Morka 05-03-06, 08:51 AM	The Protective Aura reminds me a bit Spell Resistance: SPELL RESISTANCE Spell resistance is the extraordinary ability to avoid being affected by spells. (Some spells also grant spell resistance.) To affect a creature that has spell resistance, a spellcaster must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) at least equal to the creature’s spell resistance. (The defender’s spell resistance is like an Armor Class against magical attacks.) If the caster fails the check, the spell doesn’t affect the creature. The possessor does not have to do anything special to use spell resistance. The creature need not even be aware of the threat for its spell resistance to operate. Only spells and spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance. Extraordinary and supernatural abilities (including enhancement bonuses on magic weapons) are not. A creature can have some abilities that are subject to spell resistance and some that are not. Even some spells ignore spell resistance; see When Spell Resistance Applies, below. A creature can voluntarily lower its spell resistance. Doing so is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Once a creature lowers its resistance, it remains down until the creature’s next turn. At the beginning of the creature’s next turn, the creature’s spell resistance automatically returns unless the creature intentionally keeps it down (also a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity). A creature’s spell resistance never interferes with its own spells, items, or abilities. A creature with spell resistance cannot impart this power to others by touching them or standing in their midst. Only the rarest of creatures and a few magic items have the ability to bestow spell resistance upon another. Spell resistance does not stack. It overlaps.
Kresalak 05-03-06, 09:26 AM	Kothardarastrix: No, +5 is not epic. However, a +4 good outsider bane weapon is +6 vs the Solar, and if it's Unholy, it's evil and bypasses it's DR completely, by being, against the Solar, a +6 unholy weapon that does an extra 2d6 damage.
RSBrehm 05-03-06, 09:30 AM	Usually there is only 2 of us (sometimes 3) that play not including the DM. (total 4) Those lessar vampires were turned by my PC so effectively I control them even if another player uses one. (They didn't come in until later) The only build that isn't legal is the cornugan (horned devil) but the DM changed his powers to give him roughly the same ECL as my vampire. (He lost alot of his powers IC)
runestar 05-03-06, 11:20 PM	You can deactivate and reactivate it as a free action right? Just lower it, use what SLAs/spells you need, then raise it up again on your round. :) Unless the enemy mage is reading to cast a spell when you lower your GOI... Also, you can cast low lv buffs on yourself, then activate globe. Said buffs will not be suppressed. It only applies to spells/SLAs activated while the globe is active. :)
kalstrand 05-04-06, 10:30 PM	Easy way to beat that DR, +5 Unholy Weapon and use the Magic Weapon spell. Magic Weapon provides an enhancement bonus so it won't stack with the +5 from the sword. All the angels spells and spell-like abilities work in its protective aura becasue the protective aura only protects against evil effects and effects from evil creatures.
RSBrehm 05-05-06, 10:03 AM	Well... we beat the solar.. BARELY! Luckily I took my coffin to the battle and hid it. I was reduced to 0 HP :( and turned into gaseous form. That was the hardest fight of all time :\ ... but it was fun! What we faced was a solar advanced to 33HD. Luckily we disarmed him and I decentigrated his holy greatsword. It was a really really really long fight. One thing we thought was really creepy (even the DM thought it was creepy) was the Average HP of the solar was exactly 666 with all Con modifiers etc etc... We actually delt over 1200HP of damage but most of it was subdual that the solar regenerated. The Cornugan managed to beat him down after I buffed him with spells. (This fight took well over 7 hours)
Waylander 05-05-06, 10:31 AM	All angels have the Protective Aura ability, which among other things functions as a lesser Globe of Invulnerability. This globe effect, as per the spell, causes 3rd level spells and spell-like abilities to cease functioning as long as they are within the globe. I assume an angel is affected by its own aura, else it wouldn't gain the defensive benefits. Angels have a suite of spell-like abilities. The Astral Deva, for example, can cast Invisibility at will, which is a 2nd level spell equivalent. Does this mean that an Astral Deva cannot make itself invisible due to its Protective Aura? The Astral Deva also cannot heal allies with Cure Light Wounds, since that's a 1st level spell equivalent. Are an Astral Deva's own spell-like abilities immune to the effects of its own Protective Aura? This was discussed before by the SAGE. Basically it's a standard action to lower the protective aura and a standard action to bring it back up. So an angel who wants to cure light itself needs 1) standard action on round one to lower the globe (till he wants it back up) 2) round 2 he gets to cure light (note SR does not interefere with your own spells, but you need to lower it if you want someone else to cast on you, this is in the DMG, standard action to lower it for 1 turn.) Why is it a standard action to lower the aura? Because that's what it takes to trigger any supernatural ability... a standard action... unless otherwise stated.
Raven Dark 05-05-06, 01:59 PM	All angels have the Protective Aura ability, which among other things functions as a lesser Globe of Invulnerability. This globe effect, as per the spell, causes 3rd level spells and spell-like abilities to cease functioning as long as they are within the globe. I assume an angel is affected by its own aura, else it wouldn't gain the defensive benefits. Angels have a suite of spell-like abilities. The Astral Deva, for example, can cast Invisibility at will, which is a 2nd level spell equivalent. Does this mean that an Astral Deva cannot make itself invisible due to its Protective Aura? The Astral Deva also cannot heal allies with Cure Light Wounds, since that's a 1st level spell equivalent. Are an Astral Deva's own spell-like abilities immune to the effects of its own Protective Aura? Angels can use their spells and abilities through their aura just fine. Why? Because the spell text says so. Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser Abjuration Level: Sor/Wiz 4 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: 10 ft. Area: 10-ft.-radius spherical emanation, centered on you Duration: 1 round/level (D) Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No An immobile, faintly shimmering magical sphere surrounds you and excludes all spell effects of 3rd level or lower. The area or effect of any such spells does not include the area of the lesser globe of invulnerability. Such spells fail to affect any target located within the globe. Excluded effects include spell-like abilities and spells or spell-like effects from items. However, any type of spell can be cast through or out of the magical globe. Spells of 4th level and higher are not affected by the globe, nor are spells already in effect when the globe is cast. The globe can be brought down by a targeted dispel magic spell, but not by an area dispel magic. You can leave and return to the globe without penalty. Note that spell effects are not disrupted unless their effects enter the globe, and even then they are merely suppressed, not dispelled. If a given spell has more than one level depending on which character class is casting it, use the level appropriate to the caster to determine whether lesser globe of invulnerability stops it. Material Component: A glass or crystal bead that shatters at the expiration of the spell. If the spell kept the spellcaster casting it from casting his/her own spells, the spell would be too weak to be viable. :rolleyes: I can't believe so many people missed that sentence despite the fact it was posted earlier in this thread.
ClementWillowbreaker 05-06-06, 10:13 AM	That is not the question. The question is if creatures within the Aura can be targeted by spells of lvl3 or lower. The solar can Holy Smite out no doubt. But can he cast Cure Moderate Wounds on himself without lowering the aura? As for the Aura taking a standard action, it specifically says resuming it is a free action. What is the rules precident for having the activation but not the dismissal time? I guess it could be a standard action (dismissing a spell effect as well as the default time for doing something supernatural), but the ability gives you one time already, and for symmetry, I could see lowering it as a free action as well.
Raven Dark 05-06-06, 01:28 PM	That is not the question. The question is if creatures within the Aura can be targeted by spells of lvl3 or lower. If the spell is cast from within the field, then yes, the angel can be targeted. I really don't see where all this confusion is stemming from. The spell (or aura in this case) does not hinder the caster's own spell abilities at all. It only hinders spell effects originating from outside the field. Think of it as a bubble that cuts off line of effect for anyone outside the barrier, but the reverse is not true for people inside the bubble. This is the way the spell has always worked. I suspect you are all thinking too hard on the matter. The spell really is quite simple.
kalstrand 05-06-06, 03:45 PM	Like I said a few posts up the angel can always effect itself through its protective aura because the protective aura only works against evil and since the angel is not evil the protective aura does nothing.
ClementWillowbreaker 05-06-06, 09:29 PM	Only the save and AC function against evil (and Magic Circle vs Evil, but that is because of the spell, not because the Aura says it does). The Globe is the normal version. I didn't consider that magic could be cast normally within it, as long as line of effect doesn't cross the sphere. I guess that would simply the spell a lot.