Do augmented vermins have Int scores? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Do augmented vermins have Int scores? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lisif Deoral
01-08-07, 12:06 PM What happens if a vermin gets a template that changes its type without changing intelligence to a given score (like the fiendish or celestial templates do)?

For example, take an Half-Dragon Giant Bee (your reaction now is supposed to be "LOL" or "What the...?" :cool:)

The creature type changes from Vermin to Dragon (Augmented Vermin).
The SRD states that "Unless a template indicates otherwise, the new creature has the traits of the new type but the features of the original type", so the bee would lose its "Mindless" trait.
So far so good. But does losing the mindless trait give the bee an intelligence score (and what score)? Or it would still have an intelligence nonability?

Then, the bee also gets +2 int from the template.

What's its final intelligence? :confused: And, most importantly, what are the rules for all this mess?

PS: no, I'm not really interested in half-dragon giant bees ;) my problem is with some d20 templates from athas.org, but the half-dragon is canon D&D and incurs in the same problem, so it's a better example for this board.
Vaalingrade Ashland
01-08-07, 12:21 PM There's not rule for it, but it could go either way, based on the DM's needs.
Taureus_Drakken
01-08-07, 12:27 PM I would say that the Bee would have an Int score of 2.

Having a non-ability is the same as having a score of 0 in my opinion. Besides, the type changes and I see that Dragons would have an Int score no matter what caused them to become a Dragon.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lisif Deoral 01-08-07, 12:06 PM	What happens if a vermin gets a template that changes its type without changing intelligence to a given score (like the fiendish or celestial templates do)? For example, take an Half-Dragon Giant Bee (your reaction now is supposed to be "LOL" or "What the...?" :cool:) The creature type changes from Vermin to Dragon (Augmented Vermin). The SRD states that "Unless a template indicates otherwise, the new creature has the traits of the new type but the features of the original type", so the bee would lose its "Mindless" trait. So far so good. But does losing the mindless trait give the bee an intelligence score (and what score)? Or it would still have an intelligence nonability? Then, the bee also gets +2 int from the template. What's its final intelligence? :confused: And, most importantly, what are the rules for all this mess? PS: no, I'm not really interested in half-dragon giant bees ;) my problem is with some d20 templates from athas.org, but the half-dragon is canon D&D and incurs in the same problem, so it's a better example for this board.
Vaalingrade Ashland 01-08-07, 12:21 PM	There's not rule for it, but it could go either way, based on the DM's needs.
Taureus_Drakken 01-08-07, 12:27 PM	I would say that the Bee would have an Int score of 2. Having a non-ability is the same as having a score of 0 in my opinion. Besides, the type changes and I see that Dragons would have an Int score no matter what caused them to become a Dragon.