Do mindless creatures get an attack of opportunity? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Do mindless creatures get an attack of opportunity? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Roivas
10-02-06, 03:12 AM Example 1: A zombie wielding a club charges a fighter with a longsword, it misses. The fighter decides to sunder it's weapon before killing the creature, would the zombie make an attack when the fighter's guard is down? how would it know that his guard is down, it can't think.

Example 2: An iron golem is beating on the fighter at a higher level, the wizard making his knowledge check moves in to rust the creature [he had it prepped for some reason]. Would the iron golem even think to swing at the wizard as he's casting the spell?

Basically I'm saying why would creatures a -- for Int be able to make an attack of opportunity? This would require a knowledge of tactics, thus meaning the creature would have to think, which it can't.
Any thoughts?
Shaggy_Shaggs
10-02-06, 03:34 AM This has already been hashed out before. Attacks of opportunity don't represent actual extra attacks - they represent otherwise hopeless attacks the creatures are always making, fortuitously finding a gap in target defense and possibly becoming not quite so hopeless after all. You didn't actually believe normal people can only swing once every 6 seconds, did you? The one attack you get before BAB +6/+1 doesn't represent one swing, just the one opportunity to make it count amid the wild flailing. The AoO is just a surprise opportunity for one more swing to land with sufficient force to do significant damage.

Mindless creatures get AoOs, their lack of tactical ability has no effect on that.
Example 1: A zombie wielding a club charges a fighter with a longsword, it misses. The fighter decides to sunder it's weapon before killing the creature, would the zombie make an attack when the fighter's guard is down? how would it know that his guard is down, it can't think.The zombie is already attacking the fighter - the AoO is from the fighter lowering his guard long enough for it to make contact, not the zombie doing anything extra.Example 2: An iron golem is beating on the fighter at a higher level, the wizard making his knowledge check moves in to rust the creature [he had it prepped for some reason]. Would the iron golem even think to swing at the wizard as he's casting the spell?The iron golem is already swinging those ridiculous big arms about, the wizard moved incautiously around operating heavy machinery and the consequences are his fault, not those of the golem continuing to do what it's doing.
Roivas
10-02-06, 03:38 AM I certainly didn't think that combat was a robotic one swing per round affair, I was just asking about tacticalness. Given these logical arguements the mindless creatures of my world are now back on an even keel with the rest. Thanks.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Roivas 10-02-06, 03:12 AM	Example 1: A zombie wielding a club charges a fighter with a longsword, it misses. The fighter decides to sunder it's weapon before killing the creature, would the zombie make an attack when the fighter's guard is down? how would it know that his guard is down, it can't think. Example 2: An iron golem is beating on the fighter at a higher level, the wizard making his knowledge check moves in to rust the creature [he had it prepped for some reason]. Would the iron golem even think to swing at the wizard as he's casting the spell? Basically I'm saying why would creatures a -- for Int be able to make an attack of opportunity? This would require a knowledge of tactics, thus meaning the creature would have to think, which it can't. Any thoughts?
Shaggy_Shaggs 10-02-06, 03:34 AM	This has already been hashed out before. Attacks of opportunity don't represent actual extra attacks - they represent otherwise hopeless attacks the creatures are always making, fortuitously finding a gap in target defense and possibly becoming not quite so hopeless after all. You didn't actually believe normal people can only swing once every 6 seconds, did you? The one attack you get before BAB +6/+1 doesn't represent one swing, just the one opportunity to make it count amid the wild flailing. The AoO is just a surprise opportunity for one more swing to land with sufficient force to do significant damage. Mindless creatures get AoOs, their lack of tactical ability has no effect on that. Example 1: A zombie wielding a club charges a fighter with a longsword, it misses. The fighter decides to sunder it's weapon before killing the creature, would the zombie make an attack when the fighter's guard is down? how would it know that his guard is down, it can't think.The zombie is already attacking the fighter - the AoO is from the fighter lowering his guard long enough for it to make contact, not the zombie doing anything extra.Example 2: An iron golem is beating on the fighter at a higher level, the wizard making his knowledge check moves in to rust the creature [he had it prepped for some reason]. Would the iron golem even think to swing at the wizard as he's casting the spell?The iron golem is already swinging those ridiculous big arms about, the wizard moved incautiously around operating heavy machinery and the consequences are his fault, not those of the golem continuing to do what it's doing.
Roivas 10-02-06, 03:38 AM	I certainly didn't think that combat was a robotic one swing per round affair, I was just asking about tacticalness. Given these logical arguements the mindless creatures of my world are now back on an even keel with the rest. Thanks.