Do the githzerai and githyanki look any differnt? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Do the githzerai and githyanki look any differnt? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Hammerhead
04-05-05, 09:23 PM Do they? also are they the same species?
Manyfist
04-05-05, 09:33 PM Get the MM 3.5, They use to be Humans that lived in a diffrent plane of existants, Illithids enslaved them, over the centuries they where Mutated. Tortured mentally and Physically turning the Gith Race yellow skined and Long limbed. The Gith Race was name after Gith, whom Liberated them. Gith died, and the Gith race started bickering about what's what. They split, and Githzerai became good Monks, Gith Pirates still roam 2ed, Astral Space(no 3.5 yet), and Githyanki became Evil Astral Travelers that takes over other planes. They are Psychically the same, but Mentally diffrent.
Donraj
04-05-05, 11:19 PM I imagine they look about as different as two different human ethnic groups. Whether or not an untrained observer could tell them apart is another matter.
twad
04-05-05, 11:29 PM githyanthy favored class is fighter.. they like swords.. and armors..

githezerai favored class is monk...err.. they like to punch holes in your face.
Kobold Avenger
04-05-05, 11:32 PM In 2e Githyanki had yellow skin, small noses, cat-like eyes and possibly forehead ridges.
The Githzerai had pale skin, cat-like eyes, and otherwise looked like really tall and skinny humans with slightly pointed ears.

3e completely changed a lot of things about the Gith races.
The Painter
04-06-05, 12:25 AM Githyanki have ridged ears. They get them from a series of ritual scarification rites when they are very young.

I also imagine that the 'yanki are slightly more reptilian than the 'zerai, their egg-laying reproductive habits probably have some outward effect on their bodies. I subscribe to the idea that the reason they lay eggs is because of the subtle influence of the red dragon blood which probably mingles with theirs. After millenia of partnership, it only makes sense for the reds and the 'yanki to have, at some point, intermingled a bit.

The 'yanki and 'zerai are as seperate from each other as they are from the human stock which they arose from, if not more. The differences betweent he two races should be quite readily apparent to most onlookers.
primemover003
04-06-05, 01:56 AM Like the painter said and Yanki's have black eyes while Zerai's have catlike yellowish eyes...

Culturally they'll look much different as well. Hair styles, clothing (siple robes vs ornate, even baroque clothing), obviously their weapons will be very different as well. Only a Clueless prime would mistake them for one another:)
Shemeska the Marauder
04-06-05, 02:14 AM Get the MM 3.5, They use to be Humans that lived in a diffrent plane of existants, Illithids enslaved them, over the centuries they where Mutated. Tortured mentally and Physically turning the Gith Race yellow skined and Long limbed. The Gith Race was name after Gith, whom Liberated them. Gith died, and the Gith race started bickering about what's what. They split, and Githzerai became good Monks, Gith Pirates still roam 2ed, Astral Space(no 3.5 yet), and Githyanki became Evil Astral Travelers that takes over other planes. They are Psychically the same, but Mentally diffrent.

Mostly yes, but not entirely. Here's the full story:

The original Gith race were humans from the prime material plane that were inslaved by the Illithids' plane spanning empire (prime, ethereal, astral). The Illithids apparently experimented on them over millennia to make them into better slaves and presumably better food. As a side effect this radically altered them from their original human stock and gradually gave psionic ability to the race as a whole.

Eventually they rebelled against the Illithids, led by a female gith named Gith (hence the name of their race). They destroyed the Illithid empire and immediately fell into an ideological disagreement over the future course of their race. Gith felt that they had to make an empire of their own, just like the illithids had, in order to ensure that they would never again become slaves. Another leader in the revolution, Zerthimon, felt that this would make them no better than the Illithids. Civil war ensued and Gith and her followers departed the prime material for the Astral while Zerthimon and his followers departed for Limbo.

Since that point, known as the Division of Two Skies, the githzerai of Limbo have been altered by the chaos of their adopted home plane while the Githyanki have been altered by their exposure to the energies of the Astral plane (and to a lesser extent their gradual, long term, breeding with red dragons).

Zerthimon died during the civil war between the two groups though Gith survived. Following the 'yanki relocation to the Astral, Gith descended to the first layer of Baator, Avernus, to bargain with Tiamat. Gith never returned and her exact fate is a mystery, though Ephelemon, Tiamat's red dragon consort, appeared to Vlaakith the wizardly advisor to Gith and presented her with a ruby studded sceptre to symbolize a racial pact between the 'yanki and red dragons in perpetuity. Ephelemon also claimed that Gith would not be returning to them, but that Gith desired Vlaakith to rule her children in her place.

Since that point, Vlaakith and her descendants have ruled the Githyanki in an unbroken line of succession. The current Vlaakith (the 37th IIRC) has no children, and as a lich is unlikely to be having any in the near future, nor does she envision ever not being the ruler of her race.

The githzerai aren't entirely much better off. They're ruled nominally by a council of secular generals from their capital city of Shrakatlor, with the spiritual ruler of their race, the God-King Zaerith Menyar Ag Gith being an uninvolved figurehead. Nothing could be further than the truth, and Zaerith is the true power that directs the activity of his generals without them honestly being aware of it. Menyar is a tyrant, almost as much as Vlaakith is for the 'yanki, though he doesn't automatically kill anyone he sees as a rival like Vlaakith does.

Zaerith does see the worshippers of Zerthimon as a threat to his rule, since he presents himself as a living saviour of the 'zerai (though he is not a true deity himself). Githzerai monks and their conclaves are actually exiled from the main population of the githzerai by the wishes of Zaerith. He doesn't take action against them overtly, and lets them do as they wish, but he does require that they voluntarily remove themselves from having any real power or influence among the masses. (Zaerith was something like a 20/20 fighter/wizard in 2e stats with the power of a true Anarch [ability to shape the chaos of limbo by subconscious will into anything, aka it didn't take concentration on his part to stabilize it like a normal person did. Think of him in the raw chaosof Limbo like Neo in the Matrix])

The githzerai and githyanki are different species at this point, given their long isolation from one another in different planes. The physical differences may be subtle at times, but their mannerisms are overtly different, and the two will attack each other on sight. They both see the other group as traitors to their original racial unity after the defeat of the Illithids.
Mortarion
04-06-05, 07:09 AM Shemeska said it all.
She is probably the most knowledgeble in Planar/Planescape things on these boards (must be that arcanaloth secret knowledge)
The Painter
04-06-05, 08:46 AM It is resented. I have more secret knowledge in one finger than her and I'm not lime green either!!!

The Painter fires the paint cannon in the general direction of the Fortune's Wheel and runs away giggling
Shemeska the Marauder
04-06-05, 09:07 AM *what follows is the sound of abrupt fiendish screaming and a half dozen tieflings literally hurling themselves to intercept*

"But lime green? Hmm... I wonder if that would be fashionable. Maybe lime green will turn out to be the new bright coppery tan..."

*wanders off to go play a game of forcible 'beauty parlor' with her 'friendly' counterpart*
RavinRay
04-06-05, 10:06 AM ...the Githyanki have been altered by their exposure to the energies of the Astral plane (and to a lesser extent their gradual, long term, breeding with red dragons).

Whoa! This is the first I heard of this. Did I read this right, githyanki breeding (as mating) with red dragons? Or is it something more subtle and magical?

...Githzerai monks and their conclaves are actually exiled from the main population of the githzerai by the wishes of Zaerith.

I've always wondered how lawful Githzerai monks (they are lawful ain't they?) manage to survive in the ever-changing chaos of Limbo. Doesn't that impose penalties on them? Or do they have their own way dealing with it?
Shemeska the Marauder
04-06-05, 11:39 AM Whoa! This is the first I heard of this. Did I read this right, githyanki breeding (as mating) with red dragons? Or is it something more subtle and magical?

Breeding, as in mating, yes. Presumably some level of 'yanki genetic drift from the 'zerai is due to this, but the bulk of it is probably just subtle exposure to the energies of the Astral.

But regarding the dragon aspect, there was some about this in the Dungeon mag material on Tunarath, and it may have been mentioned in the similar material in the 3.5 Planar Handbook, and the groundwork for this was formed in the 2e material that detailed the red dragon pact and the reptilian aspects of githyanki physiology (in the PSMC I and 'Guide to the Astral Plane').

I've always wondered how lawful Githzerai monks (they are lawful ain't they?) manage to survive in the ever-changing chaos of Limbo. Doesn't that impose penalties on them? Or do they have their own way dealing with it?

Githzerai alignment has always been a curious thing. They live in the utter chaos of limbo but are bastions of self reliance and self discipline. Yet at the same time as this, they value freedom above all else. They would do anything to avoid being enslaved once again. This obvious is a difficult or poor fit for the 3e alignment conventions, escpecially monastic githzerai who by the rules as written in 3e have to be lawful in order to be monks. Rationalize the flavor w/ their alignment as monks as you will. I can see their monastics being lawful monks, especially considering how they're exiles from the bulk of their society (which should be chaotic or neutral). Zaerith Menyar was CN if I recall correctly.

Limbo respects force of will, the ability of an individual to impose their freedom on their environment. It's will more so than alignment. The githzerai artificially impose stability on limbo by a sort of gestalt force of personality within their communities. The Slaadi on the other hand don't so much control Limbo as they embrace it, swim in it, wallow in its fluidity. Even if they're asleep they bask in its embrace but aren't harmed by it.
ShinQuickMan
04-06-05, 02:58 PM Wait, is it that humans, githzerai, and githyanki have another common ancestor, or that githzerai and githyanki are decended from humans?
Shemeska the Marauder
04-06-05, 03:55 PM Wait, is it that humans, githzerai, and githyanki have another common ancestor, or that githzerai and githyanki are decended from humans?

Githzerai and Githyanki are both descended from an original human stock that was enslaved by the illithids.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hammerhead 04-05-05, 09:23 PM	Do they? also are they the same species?
Manyfist 04-05-05, 09:33 PM	Get the MM 3.5, They use to be Humans that lived in a diffrent plane of existants, Illithids enslaved them, over the centuries they where Mutated. Tortured mentally and Physically turning the Gith Race yellow skined and Long limbed. The Gith Race was name after Gith, whom Liberated them. Gith died, and the Gith race started bickering about what's what. They split, and Githzerai became good Monks, Gith Pirates still roam 2ed, Astral Space(no 3.5 yet), and Githyanki became Evil Astral Travelers that takes over other planes. They are Psychically the same, but Mentally diffrent.
Donraj 04-05-05, 11:19 PM	I imagine they look about as different as two different human ethnic groups. Whether or not an untrained observer could tell them apart is another matter.
twad 04-05-05, 11:29 PM	githyanthy favored class is fighter.. they like swords.. and armors.. githezerai favored class is monk...err.. they like to punch holes in your face.
Kobold Avenger 04-05-05, 11:32 PM	In 2e Githyanki had yellow skin, small noses, cat-like eyes and possibly forehead ridges. The Githzerai had pale skin, cat-like eyes, and otherwise looked like really tall and skinny humans with slightly pointed ears. 3e completely changed a lot of things about the Gith races.
The Painter 04-06-05, 12:25 AM	Githyanki have ridged ears. They get them from a series of ritual scarification rites when they are very young. I also imagine that the 'yanki are slightly more reptilian than the 'zerai, their egg-laying reproductive habits probably have some outward effect on their bodies. I subscribe to the idea that the reason they lay eggs is because of the subtle influence of the red dragon blood which probably mingles with theirs. After millenia of partnership, it only makes sense for the reds and the 'yanki to have, at some point, intermingled a bit. The 'yanki and 'zerai are as seperate from each other as they are from the human stock which they arose from, if not more. The differences betweent he two races should be quite readily apparent to most onlookers.
primemover003 04-06-05, 01:56 AM	Like the painter said and Yanki's have black eyes while Zerai's have catlike yellowish eyes... Culturally they'll look much different as well. Hair styles, clothing (siple robes vs ornate, even baroque clothing), obviously their weapons will be very different as well. Only a Clueless prime would mistake them for one another:)
Shemeska the Marauder 04-06-05, 02:14 AM	Get the MM 3.5, They use to be Humans that lived in a diffrent plane of existants, Illithids enslaved them, over the centuries they where Mutated. Tortured mentally and Physically turning the Gith Race yellow skined and Long limbed. The Gith Race was name after Gith, whom Liberated them. Gith died, and the Gith race started bickering about what's what. They split, and Githzerai became good Monks, Gith Pirates still roam 2ed, Astral Space(no 3.5 yet), and Githyanki became Evil Astral Travelers that takes over other planes. They are Psychically the same, but Mentally diffrent. Mostly yes, but not entirely. Here's the full story: The original Gith race were humans from the prime material plane that were inslaved by the Illithids' plane spanning empire (prime, ethereal, astral). The Illithids apparently experimented on them over millennia to make them into better slaves and presumably better food. As a side effect this radically altered them from their original human stock and gradually gave psionic ability to the race as a whole. Eventually they rebelled against the Illithids, led by a female gith named Gith (hence the name of their race). They destroyed the Illithid empire and immediately fell into an ideological disagreement over the future course of their race. Gith felt that they had to make an empire of their own, just like the illithids had, in order to ensure that they would never again become slaves. Another leader in the revolution, Zerthimon, felt that this would make them no better than the Illithids. Civil war ensued and Gith and her followers departed the prime material for the Astral while Zerthimon and his followers departed for Limbo. Since that point, known as the Division of Two Skies, the githzerai of Limbo have been altered by the chaos of their adopted home plane while the Githyanki have been altered by their exposure to the energies of the Astral plane (and to a lesser extent their gradual, long term, breeding with red dragons). Zerthimon died during the civil war between the two groups though Gith survived. Following the 'yanki relocation to the Astral, Gith descended to the first layer of Baator, Avernus, to bargain with Tiamat. Gith never returned and her exact fate is a mystery, though Ephelemon, Tiamat's red dragon consort, appeared to Vlaakith the wizardly advisor to Gith and presented her with a ruby studded sceptre to symbolize a racial pact between the 'yanki and red dragons in perpetuity. Ephelemon also claimed that Gith would not be returning to them, but that Gith desired Vlaakith to rule her children in her place. Since that point, Vlaakith and her descendants have ruled the Githyanki in an unbroken line of succession. The current Vlaakith (the 37th IIRC) has no children, and as a lich is unlikely to be having any in the near future, nor does she envision ever not being the ruler of her race. The githzerai aren't entirely much better off. They're ruled nominally by a council of secular generals from their capital city of Shrakatlor, with the spiritual ruler of their race, the God-King Zaerith Menyar Ag Gith being an uninvolved figurehead. Nothing could be further than the truth, and Zaerith is the true power that directs the activity of his generals without them honestly being aware of it. Menyar is a tyrant, almost as much as Vlaakith is for the 'yanki, though he doesn't automatically kill anyone he sees as a rival like Vlaakith does. Zaerith does see the worshippers of Zerthimon as a threat to his rule, since he presents himself as a living saviour of the 'zerai (though he is not a true deity himself). Githzerai monks and their conclaves are actually exiled from the main population of the githzerai by the wishes of Zaerith. He doesn't take action against them overtly, and lets them do as they wish, but he does require that they voluntarily remove themselves from having any real power or influence among the masses. (Zaerith was something like a 20/20 fighter/wizard in 2e stats with the power of a true Anarch [ability to shape the chaos of limbo by subconscious will into anything, aka it didn't take concentration on his part to stabilize it like a normal person did. Think of him in the raw chaosof Limbo like Neo in the Matrix]) The githzerai and githyanki are different species at this point, given their long isolation from one another in different planes. The physical differences may be subtle at times, but their mannerisms are overtly different, and the two will attack each other on sight. They both see the other group as traitors to their original racial unity after the defeat of the Illithids.
Mortarion 04-06-05, 07:09 AM	Shemeska said it all. She is probably the most knowledgeble in Planar/Planescape things on these boards (must be that arcanaloth secret knowledge)
The Painter 04-06-05, 08:46 AM	It is resented. I have more secret knowledge in one finger than her and I'm not lime green either!!! The Painter fires the paint cannon in the general direction of the Fortune's Wheel and runs away giggling
Shemeska the Marauder 04-06-05, 09:07 AM	what follows is the sound of abrupt fiendish screaming and a half dozen tieflings literally hurling themselves to intercept "But lime green? Hmm... I wonder if that would be fashionable. Maybe lime green will turn out to be the new bright coppery tan..." wanders off to go play a game of forcible 'beauty parlor' with her 'friendly' counterpart
RavinRay 04-06-05, 10:06 AM	...the Githyanki have been altered by their exposure to the energies of the Astral plane (and to a lesser extent their gradual, long term, breeding with red dragons). Whoa! This is the first I heard of this. Did I read this right, githyanki breeding (as mating) with red dragons? Or is it something more subtle and magical? ...Githzerai monks and their conclaves are actually exiled from the main population of the githzerai by the wishes of Zaerith. I've always wondered how lawful Githzerai monks (they are lawful ain't they?) manage to survive in the ever-changing chaos of Limbo. Doesn't that impose penalties on them? Or do they have their own way dealing with it?
Shemeska the Marauder 04-06-05, 11:39 AM	Whoa! This is the first I heard of this. Did I read this right, githyanki breeding (as mating) with red dragons? Or is it something more subtle and magical? Breeding, as in mating, yes. Presumably some level of 'yanki genetic drift from the 'zerai is due to this, but the bulk of it is probably just subtle exposure to the energies of the Astral. But regarding the dragon aspect, there was some about this in the Dungeon mag material on Tunarath, and it may have been mentioned in the similar material in the 3.5 Planar Handbook, and the groundwork for this was formed in the 2e material that detailed the red dragon pact and the reptilian aspects of githyanki physiology (in the PSMC I and 'Guide to the Astral Plane'). I've always wondered how lawful Githzerai monks (they are lawful ain't they?) manage to survive in the ever-changing chaos of Limbo. Doesn't that impose penalties on them? Or do they have their own way dealing with it? Githzerai alignment has always been a curious thing. They live in the utter chaos of limbo but are bastions of self reliance and self discipline. Yet at the same time as this, they value freedom above all else. They would do anything to avoid being enslaved once again. This obvious is a difficult or poor fit for the 3e alignment conventions, escpecially monastic githzerai who by the rules as written in 3e have to be lawful in order to be monks. Rationalize the flavor w/ their alignment as monks as you will. I can see their monastics being lawful monks, especially considering how they're exiles from the bulk of their society (which should be chaotic or neutral). Zaerith Menyar was CN if I recall correctly. Limbo respects force of will, the ability of an individual to impose their freedom on their environment. It's will more so than alignment. The githzerai artificially impose stability on limbo by a sort of gestalt force of personality within their communities. The Slaadi on the other hand don't so much control Limbo as they embrace it, swim in it, wallow in its fluidity. Even if they're asleep they bask in its embrace but aren't harmed by it.
ShinQuickMan 04-06-05, 02:58 PM	Wait, is it that humans, githzerai, and githyanki have another common ancestor, or that githzerai and githyanki are decended from humans?
Shemeska the Marauder 04-06-05, 03:55 PM	Wait, is it that humans, githzerai, and githyanki have another common ancestor, or that githzerai and githyanki are decended from humans? Githzerai and Githyanki are both descended from an original human stock that was enslaved by the illithids.