Does a dragon keep its Nat armor? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Does a dragon keep its Nat armor? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
FrostHammer
03-05-07, 07:47 PM When a Dragon uses its Alternate Form ability, does it keep its natural armor and Cloudwalking (if a Silver Dragon?)
Bawitda
03-05-07, 08:04 PM Everything is spelled out here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#alternateForm). It loses its natural armor (as well as natural weapons and movement modes), but retains most of its special qualities (such as cloudwalking).
FrostHammer
03-05-07, 08:24 PM Thank you. So breath weapon is lost. Since SR is a Special quality, I wonder if it retains that as well...
Morwen
03-05-07, 09:21 PM It keeps all special qualities, including SR. From the link posted above:

The creature retains the special qualities of its original form. It does not gain any special qualities of its new form.
FrostHammer
03-05-07, 10:15 PM Now, on a related note, how do I determine its physical stats of its new form?

If a dragon shifts into human form, would it become utterly pathetic with 10s in all physical stats? Surely he can choose to assume the form of a more heroic adventurer?

What if the dragon knows an individual very well, and shifts into that particualr individual? Does he get the physical stats of that individual?
cwslyclgh
03-06-07, 02:38 AM all average scores, so a dragon in human form would have straight 10's (or if the DM is generous 11's).
FrostHammer
03-06-07, 03:06 AM Are all PHB races straight 10s before racial adjustments?
Bawitda
03-06-07, 03:21 AM Yes. A basic example of the type is straight 10's. Only specific cases (like the troll ranger) use the elite array.
cwslyclgh
03-06-07, 11:50 AM actualy it is not all 10s, it is actaully three 10s and three 11s as base stats before racial adjustments. (all creatures have 3 even and 3 odd ability scores).
FrostHammer
03-06-07, 12:00 PM Wlould it be broken to let a player use an elite array instead of average when shifting into humanoid races?
cwslyclgh
03-06-07, 12:04 PM I don't know if it would actualy be that broken (when using PHB races, it quickly gets overpowered when polymoprhing into other creatures), but it would be a clear violation of the rules.
FrostHammer
03-06-07, 12:16 PM Well, it's just that for example, my silver dragon, according to the Dragonomicon, would usually love to spend lots of time in human form, eating human food, even going on adventures while shifted into human form. It's just that...I can't see him doing that with 10s and 11s in all his physical stats.

If my dragon becomes human and gets 10s and 11s for his physical stats, he has almost no incentive to do so while adventuring. It doesn't make sense.
ZiggZagg
03-06-07, 12:55 PM I played a dragon once upon a time and whenever I changed to human form, me and my DM decided that all that changed was my size modifiers. So, when I went back to medium, I lost my Large strength and constitution bonus. It worked out pretty well and it made for a better adventurer type
Fireclave
03-06-07, 12:57 PM If it's any consolation, you'd still retain your HP despite the change in your Con score.
FrostHammer
03-06-07, 01:03 PM Meh, I'll just have my dragon shapeshift into a Bugbear. Not totally crappy stats, and the +3 natural armor is nice.
DorienAenor
03-08-07, 04:26 PM Well... I don´t know what I should do, but according to Draconomicon´s feat Dragon Wild Shape, a Druid can assume a Medium size Dragon form and gain all Supernatural and Extraordinary abilities (But not any speel-like ability and spellcasting), so I also get Alternate Form. If I want to return to my old human form using the Alternate Form, even this way I can´t use my own physical stats?

Thanks good folk,
Felipe.
cwslyclgh
03-08-07, 06:10 PM If I want to return to my old human form using the Alternate Form, even this way I can´t use my own physical stats?by the Rules as Written you would have average stats in any human form you took using the alternate form ability, including your "own."
Wolf72
03-08-07, 07:55 PM Dragonlance also has a feat for dragons that let it get higher stats in polymorph state ...

well I thought there was ... somewhere.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
FrostHammer 03-05-07, 07:47 PM	When a Dragon uses its Alternate Form ability, does it keep its natural armor and Cloudwalking (if a Silver Dragon?)
Bawitda 03-05-07, 08:04 PM	Everything is spelled out here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#alternateForm). It loses its natural armor (as well as natural weapons and movement modes), but retains most of its special qualities (such as cloudwalking).
FrostHammer 03-05-07, 08:24 PM	Thank you. So breath weapon is lost. Since SR is a Special quality, I wonder if it retains that as well...
Morwen 03-05-07, 09:21 PM	It keeps all special qualities, including SR. From the link posted above: The creature retains the special qualities of its original form. It does not gain any special qualities of its new form.
FrostHammer 03-05-07, 10:15 PM	Now, on a related note, how do I determine its physical stats of its new form? If a dragon shifts into human form, would it become utterly pathetic with 10s in all physical stats? Surely he can choose to assume the form of a more heroic adventurer? What if the dragon knows an individual very well, and shifts into that particualr individual? Does he get the physical stats of that individual?
cwslyclgh 03-06-07, 02:38 AM	all average scores, so a dragon in human form would have straight 10's (or if the DM is generous 11's).
FrostHammer 03-06-07, 03:06 AM	Are all PHB races straight 10s before racial adjustments?
Bawitda 03-06-07, 03:21 AM	Yes. A basic example of the type is straight 10's. Only specific cases (like the troll ranger) use the elite array.
cwslyclgh 03-06-07, 11:50 AM	actualy it is not all 10s, it is actaully three 10s and three 11s as base stats before racial adjustments. (all creatures have 3 even and 3 odd ability scores).
FrostHammer 03-06-07, 12:00 PM	Wlould it be broken to let a player use an elite array instead of average when shifting into humanoid races?
cwslyclgh 03-06-07, 12:04 PM	I don't know if it would actualy be that broken (when using PHB races, it quickly gets overpowered when polymoprhing into other creatures), but it would be a clear violation of the rules.
FrostHammer 03-06-07, 12:16 PM	Well, it's just that for example, my silver dragon, according to the Dragonomicon, would usually love to spend lots of time in human form, eating human food, even going on adventures while shifted into human form. It's just that...I can't see him doing that with 10s and 11s in all his physical stats. If my dragon becomes human and gets 10s and 11s for his physical stats, he has almost no incentive to do so while adventuring. It doesn't make sense.
ZiggZagg 03-06-07, 12:55 PM	I played a dragon once upon a time and whenever I changed to human form, me and my DM decided that all that changed was my size modifiers. So, when I went back to medium, I lost my Large strength and constitution bonus. It worked out pretty well and it made for a better adventurer type
Fireclave 03-06-07, 12:57 PM	If it's any consolation, you'd still retain your HP despite the change in your Con score.
FrostHammer 03-06-07, 01:03 PM	Meh, I'll just have my dragon shapeshift into a Bugbear. Not totally crappy stats, and the +3 natural armor is nice.
DorienAenor 03-08-07, 04:26 PM	Well... I don´t know what I should do, but according to Draconomicon´s feat Dragon Wild Shape, a Druid can assume a Medium size Dragon form and gain all Supernatural and Extraordinary abilities (But not any speel-like ability and spellcasting), so I also get Alternate Form. If I want to return to my old human form using the Alternate Form, even this way I can´t use my own physical stats? Thanks good folk, Felipe.
cwslyclgh 03-08-07, 06:10 PM	If I want to return to my old human form using the Alternate Form, even this way I can´t use my own physical stats?by the Rules as Written you would have average stats in any human form you took using the alternate form ability, including your "own."
Wolf72 03-08-07, 07:55 PM	Dragonlance also has a feat for dragons that let it get higher stats in polymorph state ... well I thought there was ... somewhere.