Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aeolius 09-06-03, 01:53 PM	A lich is often found in the company of vampires. The touch of a lich deals negative energy damage. Could the life-draining touch of a lich then cause vampirism? Technically, I know the answer would be no, as that ability is not mentioned in the MM nor does the lich have the create spawn (su) ability. Still, a DM has the final word. I recall a past issue of DRAGON which detailed the vampiric spawn created by succubi.
Rotipher 09-06-03, 02:31 PM	Neither liches nor succubi transmit vampirism in the "core" rules. If you saw a Dragon article in which a succubus was creating vampiric spawn, that was the "house-rules" idea of the article's author, which only applies IYC if the DM wants it to. Note that liches must earn a lot of experience levels, and then go through an elaborate, costly, and risky ritual to attain lichdom, usually in an attempt to perpetuate their own survival beyond their race's normal lifespan. If one lich could pass on vampirism -- another form of undead immortality -- to any other evil humanoid over 4th level that asked it to, I'd be concerned that other would-be liches would choose vampirism as a safer, cheaper, quicker alternative, making the "lich" creature-type unique (and then extinct, once PCs slay the first one). Lichdom is most desirable in a setting where vampirism is scarce or at least well-hidden.
Aeolius 09-06-03, 03:06 PM	That was my thinking, as well. The lich will degenerate into a demi-lich, soon, while the most common vampires in the region are vampiric ixitxachitl.
Janus Krug 09-06-03, 03:22 PM	The thing that Lichdom has over vampirism is that when a vampire is created, it is fully under the control of the creature that spawned it. Lich's are fully independant from inception. So, any power-hungry mage or cleric who does things right would much rather be a Lich and control their own destiny, rather than be some Vampire's messenger boy.
Rotipher 09-06-03, 05:09 PM	Any mage or cleric who's of sufficient level to become a lich would also be powerful enough to capture a weak vampire, force it to transform him/her, then ensure it's destroyed (by minions or pre-set spells) before it's able to exert such control over its captor. The amount of work and planning involved would still be less than that which is necessary to become a lich ... especially since most of the published "recipies" for attaining lichdom, over the years, have included vampire-dust as a component of the ritual anyway! Either way, you've got to track down a vampire to earn your undead "immortality", so why not pick the method that lets you retain a body that won't gross you out to look at...?
Arilou_skiff 09-07-03, 06:59 AM	A lich has several things going over a Vampire. -They have fewer weaknesses, and in general are harder to kill. -They do not have to drink blood (yeah, I know vampires doesen't have to in the core rules either, but I'd rule he'd suffer from starvation effects if he didn't, just like any other creature) -Freedom, they aren't bound to their creator.
Northen_Spur 09-07-03, 01:42 PM	Originally posted by Rotipher Neither liches nor succubi transmit vampirism in the "core" rules. If you saw a Dragon article in which a succubus was creating vampiric spawn, that was the "house-rules" idea of the article's author, which only applies IYC if the DM wants it to. Note that liches must earn a lot of experience levels, and then go through an elaborate, costly, and risky ritual to attain lichdom, usually in an attempt to perpetuate their own survival beyond their race's normal lifespan. If one lich could pass on vampirism -- another form of undead immortality -- to any other evil humanoid over 4th level that asked it to, I'd be concerned that other would-be liches would choose vampirism as a safer, cheaper, quicker alternative, making the "lich" creature-type unique (and then extinct, once PCs slay the first one). Lichdom is most desirable in a setting where vampirism is scarce or at least well-hidden. Unless you play by Ravenloft's rules (Van Richten's guides) and Children of the Vampire. The Gentleman caller (a male succubus) when he drained the blood of a cleric of Hala she became a different Vampire (I forget the exact name). Vampires created by Succubus look 100% human during the day time a Detect aliment spell gives back the original aliment of the person. The Only diference is the Vampire cannot experiance Love and is enraged by those who do. During the night, The Head detaches from the body and floats around with a discusting greenish flesh coulored tail. Now detect aliment gives an Aliment of Chaotic Evil and The Vampire can be turned by a cleric. The Vampire will seek to kill anyone who she saw engaging in Love. Women killed will become the same type of Vampire while males die and are harder to resurect. Normal Vampires hate this Succubus Vampire because normal Vampires even if corrupted do feel a form of the emotion of Love (even if it's just lust). I DM'ed a Campaign in Ravenloft, and once Strahd was told such a creature existed in his domain the PC's got a glimps of Strahd in Action.
nox 09-07-03, 05:43 PM	The Gentleman caller is not a male succubus (well at least not anymore, canon Ravenloft says that he's been mis-indentified as an incubus and is a fiend of unknown origin/powers).