Does "claws" equal "usable hands" ? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Does "claws" equal "usable hands" ? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JiCi
12-11-06, 08:33 PM For example, if I apply the half-fiend template to a beholder, it gets 2 additional claw attacks.

Does having those claws means that this half-fiend beholder can manipulate objects as a human would ?

Thanks in advance,

JiCi
Watchdog_of_Hades
12-11-06, 09:17 PM Now, personally, I'd house-rule that the beholder doesn't grow claws. But if you insist, then yes, I'd say that it could manipulate objects.
Sildatorak
12-11-06, 09:55 PM I'm backing up Watchdog here. I read the half-fiend template as allowing claws to grow on the creature's normal hands/feet. I don't adjust the ability of the creature to manipulate objects at all. A half-fiend dog has clawed paws, a half-fiend human has clawed hands. I don't even know how one goes about making a half-fiend beholder, but I'm sure the process is unspeakable.
Terraneaux
12-11-06, 11:31 PM Well, when a fiend and a beholder love each other very much.....
Mindforge
12-11-06, 11:37 PM I would have to say no, simply due to the fact that the creature doesn't have arms or feet. There is a beholder with claws on their eyestalks in the pages of Monsters of Faerun. So, maybe you can add a claw attack to the eye stalks, if you wanted to get twisted on it and explain why it had claws. But then you would pretty much be building something more than a half-fiend beholder, For example: Would the beholder get multiple claw attacks, i.e. one for each stalk, along with a bite? Anyway, it is something to think about.

If you allow the beholder to grow arms for claw attacks you might want to just consider creating an entirely new beholder type, of your own design.
Sildatorak
12-11-06, 11:44 PM Well, when a fiend and a beholder love each other very much.....

It can't be that...you spoke it.
CryoSilver
12-12-06, 09:28 AM I houserule that when a creature would gain an attack that it can't (like this one), its pre-existing natural weapons get bigger instead, and grant Improved Natural Attack rather than changing the creature's anatomy.
Ireth_Barbedelf
12-12-06, 05:49 PM Well essentially I would compare it to "because a lion has claws it can manipulate objects as a human" This obviously is not true. If the half-fiend temaplate states only claws, and not say humanoid clawed hands, then no, it
cant. I guess it depends on the nature of the limb that gains the claws.

If you as the DM decides that the beholder has grown clawed hands, then yes. But clawed paws or talons, etc that cannot manipulate such things then no. From the looks of it, you will probably have to add extra limbs to the creature in order to give it the attack in the first place, but hey, no two beholders are the same...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JiCi 12-11-06, 08:33 PM	For example, if I apply the half-fiend template to a beholder, it gets 2 additional claw attacks. Does having those claws means that this half-fiend beholder can manipulate objects as a human would ? Thanks in advance, JiCi
Watchdog_of_Hades 12-11-06, 09:17 PM	Now, personally, I'd house-rule that the beholder doesn't grow claws. But if you insist, then yes, I'd say that it could manipulate objects.
Sildatorak 12-11-06, 09:55 PM	I'm backing up Watchdog here. I read the half-fiend template as allowing claws to grow on the creature's normal hands/feet. I don't adjust the ability of the creature to manipulate objects at all. A half-fiend dog has clawed paws, a half-fiend human has clawed hands. I don't even know how one goes about making a half-fiend beholder, but I'm sure the process is unspeakable.
Terraneaux 12-11-06, 11:31 PM	Well, when a fiend and a beholder love each other very much.....
Mindforge 12-11-06, 11:37 PM	I would have to say no, simply due to the fact that the creature doesn't have arms or feet. There is a beholder with claws on their eyestalks in the pages of Monsters of Faerun. So, maybe you can add a claw attack to the eye stalks, if you wanted to get twisted on it and explain why it had claws. But then you would pretty much be building something more than a half-fiend beholder, For example: Would the beholder get multiple claw attacks, i.e. one for each stalk, along with a bite? Anyway, it is something to think about. If you allow the beholder to grow arms for claw attacks you might want to just consider creating an entirely new beholder type, of your own design.
Sildatorak 12-11-06, 11:44 PM	Well, when a fiend and a beholder love each other very much..... It can't be that...you spoke it.
CryoSilver 12-12-06, 09:28 AM	I houserule that when a creature would gain an attack that it can't (like this one), its pre-existing natural weapons get bigger instead, and grant Improved Natural Attack rather than changing the creature's anatomy.
Ireth_Barbedelf 12-12-06, 05:49 PM	Well essentially I would compare it to "because a lion has claws it can manipulate objects as a human" This obviously is not true. If the half-fiend temaplate states only claws, and not say humanoid clawed hands, then no, it cant. I guess it depends on the nature of the limb that gains the claws. If you as the DM decides that the beholder has grown clawed hands, then yes. But clawed paws or talons, etc that cannot manipulate such things then no. From the looks of it, you will probably have to add extra limbs to the creature in order to give it the attack in the first place, but hey, no two beholders are the same...