Does disintegrate kill a vampire? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Does disintegrate kill a vampire? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
selenar
10-29-04, 01:15 PM If a vampire is reduce to 0 hp with disintegrate, does it turn to gaseous form or is it definitively destoyed?
Phrennzy
10-29-04, 02:05 PM Well, my first instinct is to say no, he is gone forever. But the spell does say that dust is left over, which would leave me to beleive that the vampire can regenerate.

Then I read both Disentegrate and Vampires:

From Vampires:

: Reducing a vampire’s hit points to 0 or lower incapacitates it but doesn’t always destroy it (see the note on fast healing).

Fast Healing (Ex): A vampire heals 5 points of damage each round so long as it has at least 1 hit point. If reduced to 0 hit points in combat, it automatically assumes gaseous form and attempts to escape. It must reach its coffin home within 2 hours or be utterly destroyed.

However, certain attacks can slay vampires.

Disentegration is not listed as an attack that can slay vampires.

So I would rule that since disentegrate causes damage (2d6/level) that when the damage forces the vampire to 0 or less, he assumes gaseous form.

If the spell was still written the way it used be - a Save or Die kind of spell:
"Make a save on Fort, if you fail you are disentegrated regardless of hit points" then I would rule that the vampire is destroyed in that way.
R.M.G.C.L.F.
10-29-04, 05:30 PM Disintegrate, at least in 3.0, reduces the target to -10hp, not 0. I think that effect would count as slaying it, as would a spell such as transmute undeath to death.
gradea
10-30-04, 12:12 AM it, along with all death effects, reduced a living creature to -10. vampires arent living, therefore they would only go down to 0, at which point they assume gaseous form
The_one_wit_a_reason
10-30-04, 08:48 AM as a dm i would say yes because the vampire would become a pile of dust with no life yet in it just dust and it would blow away and not be a vampire because its body is gone and it has no lifeforce but thats just me
selenar
10-30-04, 01:19 PM the bonus of the vampire for the fort save is +0 due to the lack of constitution, Am I right?
R.M.G.C.L.F.
10-30-04, 01:28 PM No, I think they still get a bonus based on their hit dice, just no constitution bonus.
UZI
10-30-04, 01:32 PM the bonus of the vampire for the fort save is +0 due to the lack of constitution, Am I right?

No, undead have a FORT save progression (it follows the poor progression), and some of them use CHA to act as a modifier (IIRC). Off the top of my head, I think they are unaffected by things requiring FORT saves unless the effect works on objects as well (maybe I'm getting them confused with constructs?). Disintegrate works on objects, so it should work on a vamp.

I'd probably have the vamp go gaseous.
TheGreenGriffon
10-30-04, 01:43 PM A Disentigrate spell does not destroy a vampire, it merely defeats it as you would with a sword, it then reverts to Gaseous Form and escapes to its coffin and begins to regenerate. Destroying a vampires body is not enough to destroy a vampire, if it was vampires would be simple opponents to get rid of.

The only way to kill vampires are the ways listed in its description. Infact the only other way there is to destroy one thats not listed is to suceed in a turning check that suceeds in destroying undead rather than turning it like Greater Turning.
Nimrud
10-30-04, 02:11 PM The True Death ability of the Hunter of the Dead can destroy vampires (or liches for that matter) outright by melee attacks or spells.
Judicator Shekar
10-30-04, 03:37 PM TheGreenGriffon is most definately correct. Barring new special abilities like that of the Hunter of the Dead, a vampire's power lies in the fact that it can only be killed by certain effects, effects that have been clearly specified in the MM3.5 entry. Whether or not disintegrate is a save or die spell or a damage dealing spell (3.0 vs. 3.5) is totally irrelevant.
Awaken Dragon
10-30-04, 06:20 PM Once a vampires body is dust, its dead..thats it ..gon. dead.Poof.
R.M.G.C.L.F.
10-30-04, 06:47 PM I could be wrong, but I think there was a line of text saying that a vampire goes away if it's body is completely destroyed, ala cremation or such.
KitsuneYuri
10-30-04, 10:41 PM Well, considering that a vampire is reduced to nothing but ash if exposed to sunlight, if the spell annihilates the vampires physical body to the point of dusting it I'd say that vampire isn't getting back up. You are after all disentegrating the undeads physical body.

The counter arguement is that when the body of the vampire is disentegrated the true form simply turns into a mist and floats at max speed back to the vampires coffin. So while there would be a pile of dust, the vampire would still be alive.
selenar
10-31-04, 10:45 AM the bonus of the vampire for the fort save is +0 due to the lack of constitution, Am I right?

sorry, I was thinking of the const bonus to add to the fort bonus of the class level.

Ex: A 10 wizard vampire (CR 12) have a fort save of :+3
Is that right?
GRAOUH !!!
10-31-04, 10:56 AM SRD, disintegrate :
Any creature reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by this spell is entirely disintegrated, leaving behind only a trace of fine dust.
Even living creature are disintegrated if reduced to 0 HPs.
I don't think a vampire can raise from "a trace of fine dust", the "entirely disintegrated" sure means that you are entirely out of order :)
TheGreenGriffon
10-31-04, 02:33 PM From Monstrous Manual 3.5:

Slaying a Vampire: Reducing a vampire's hit points to 0 or lower incapacitates it but doesnt always destroy it. (see the note on fast healing)

Fast Healing (Ex): A Vampire heals 5 points of damage each round so long as it has at least 1 hit point. If reduced to 0 hit points in combat, it automatically assumes gaseous form and attempts to escape. It must reach its coffin home within 2 hours or be utterly destroyed. Any additional damage dealt to a vampire forced into gaseous form has no effect. Once at rest within its coffin it is helpless. It regains 1 hit point after 1 hour then is no longer helpless and resumes healing at the rate of 5 hit poits per round.

Thats it people. Says it right there in black and white. If you found the coffin and disentigrated that you would destroy the vampire unless she had a back up coffin. Other than summoning a Turning check so powerful you destroy the vampire out right you must kill it using the conventional means to slay vampires which are:

Decapitation (you could use disintigrate to destroy the body once the head is off)

Stake through the heart (which only paralyzes the vampires body)

Immersion in running water (kills in 3 rounds)

Exposure to Sunlight

Pretty much because Disintigrate does hit point damage it works like any other spell that does so and is only a temporary problem for vampires. Once the vampires body is to be destroyed, once it reaches 0 hit points its assumes gaseous form.
Vatras
10-31-04, 04:36 PM Well, if you use vampires straight out of the MM, disintegrate can defeat them - as some already remarked above - but does not get rid of them.

If you use vampires oriented on the clans from White Wolf, like I do, disintegrating will get rid of them permanently.

Vatras
TheGreenGriffon
10-31-04, 05:26 PM well pretty much thats a given, with house rules you can do anything you want to. But this discussion is about what the games rules itself says on the subject.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
selenar 10-29-04, 01:15 PM	If a vampire is reduce to 0 hp with disintegrate, does it turn to gaseous form or is it definitively destoyed?
Phrennzy 10-29-04, 02:05 PM	Well, my first instinct is to say no, he is gone forever. But the spell does say that dust is left over, which would leave me to beleive that the vampire can regenerate. Then I read both Disentegrate and Vampires: From Vampires: : Reducing a vampire’s hit points to 0 or lower incapacitates it but doesn’t always destroy it (see the note on fast healing). Fast Healing (Ex): A vampire heals 5 points of damage each round so long as it has at least 1 hit point. If reduced to 0 hit points in combat, it automatically assumes gaseous form and attempts to escape. It must reach its coffin home within 2 hours or be utterly destroyed. However, certain attacks can slay vampires. Disentegration is not listed as an attack that can slay vampires. So I would rule that since disentegrate causes damage (2d6/level) that when the damage forces the vampire to 0 or less, he assumes gaseous form. If the spell was still written the way it used be - a Save or Die kind of spell: "Make a save on Fort, if you fail you are disentegrated regardless of hit points" then I would rule that the vampire is destroyed in that way.
R.M.G.C.L.F. 10-29-04, 05:30 PM	Disintegrate, at least in 3.0, reduces the target to -10hp, not 0. I think that effect would count as slaying it, as would a spell such as transmute undeath to death.
gradea 10-30-04, 12:12 AM	it, along with all death effects, reduced a living creature to -10. vampires arent living, therefore they would only go down to 0, at which point they assume gaseous form
The_one_wit_a_reason 10-30-04, 08:48 AM	as a dm i would say yes because the vampire would become a pile of dust with no life yet in it just dust and it would blow away and not be a vampire because its body is gone and it has no lifeforce but thats just me
selenar 10-30-04, 01:19 PM	the bonus of the vampire for the fort save is +0 due to the lack of constitution, Am I right?
R.M.G.C.L.F. 10-30-04, 01:28 PM	No, I think they still get a bonus based on their hit dice, just no constitution bonus.
UZI 10-30-04, 01:32 PM	the bonus of the vampire for the fort save is +0 due to the lack of constitution, Am I right? No, undead have a FORT save progression (it follows the poor progression), and some of them use CHA to act as a modifier (IIRC). Off the top of my head, I think they are unaffected by things requiring FORT saves unless the effect works on objects as well (maybe I'm getting them confused with constructs?). Disintegrate works on objects, so it should work on a vamp. I'd probably have the vamp go gaseous.
TheGreenGriffon 10-30-04, 01:43 PM	A Disentigrate spell does not destroy a vampire, it merely defeats it as you would with a sword, it then reverts to Gaseous Form and escapes to its coffin and begins to regenerate. Destroying a vampires body is not enough to destroy a vampire, if it was vampires would be simple opponents to get rid of. The only way to kill vampires are the ways listed in its description. Infact the only other way there is to destroy one thats not listed is to suceed in a turning check that suceeds in destroying undead rather than turning it like Greater Turning.
Nimrud 10-30-04, 02:11 PM	The True Death ability of the Hunter of the Dead can destroy vampires (or liches for that matter) outright by melee attacks or spells.
Judicator Shekar 10-30-04, 03:37 PM	TheGreenGriffon is most definately correct. Barring new special abilities like that of the Hunter of the Dead, a vampire's power lies in the fact that it can only be killed by certain effects, effects that have been clearly specified in the MM3.5 entry. Whether or not disintegrate is a save or die spell or a damage dealing spell (3.0 vs. 3.5) is totally irrelevant.
Awaken Dragon 10-30-04, 06:20 PM	Once a vampires body is dust, its dead..thats it ..gon. dead.Poof.
R.M.G.C.L.F. 10-30-04, 06:47 PM	I could be wrong, but I think there was a line of text saying that a vampire goes away if it's body is completely destroyed, ala cremation or such.
KitsuneYuri 10-30-04, 10:41 PM	Well, considering that a vampire is reduced to nothing but ash if exposed to sunlight, if the spell annihilates the vampires physical body to the point of dusting it I'd say that vampire isn't getting back up. You are after all disentegrating the undeads physical body. The counter arguement is that when the body of the vampire is disentegrated the true form simply turns into a mist and floats at max speed back to the vampires coffin. So while there would be a pile of dust, the vampire would still be alive.
selenar 10-31-04, 10:45 AM	the bonus of the vampire for the fort save is +0 due to the lack of constitution, Am I right? sorry, I was thinking of the const bonus to add to the fort bonus of the class level. Ex: A 10 wizard vampire (CR 12) have a fort save of :+3 Is that right?
GRAOUH !!! 10-31-04, 10:56 AM	SRD, disintegrate : Any creature reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by this spell is entirely disintegrated, leaving behind only a trace of fine dust. Even living creature are disintegrated if reduced to 0 HPs. I don't think a vampire can raise from "a trace of fine dust", the "entirely disintegrated" sure means that you are entirely out of order :)
TheGreenGriffon 10-31-04, 02:33 PM	From Monstrous Manual 3.5: Slaying a Vampire: Reducing a vampire's hit points to 0 or lower incapacitates it but doesnt always destroy it. (see the note on fast healing) Fast Healing (Ex): A Vampire heals 5 points of damage each round so long as it has at least 1 hit point. If reduced to 0 hit points in combat, it automatically assumes gaseous form and attempts to escape. It must reach its coffin home within 2 hours or be utterly destroyed. Any additional damage dealt to a vampire forced into gaseous form has no effect. Once at rest within its coffin it is helpless. It regains 1 hit point after 1 hour then is no longer helpless and resumes healing at the rate of 5 hit poits per round. Thats it people. Says it right there in black and white. If you found the coffin and disentigrated that you would destroy the vampire unless she had a back up coffin. Other than summoning a Turning check so powerful you destroy the vampire out right you must kill it using the conventional means to slay vampires which are: Decapitation (you could use disintigrate to destroy the body once the head is off) Stake through the heart (which only paralyzes the vampires body) Immersion in running water (kills in 3 rounds) Exposure to Sunlight Pretty much because Disintigrate does hit point damage it works like any other spell that does so and is only a temporary problem for vampires. Once the vampires body is to be destroyed, once it reaches 0 hit points its assumes gaseous form.
Vatras 10-31-04, 04:36 PM	Well, if you use vampires straight out of the MM, disintegrate can defeat them - as some already remarked above - but does not get rid of them. If you use vampires oriented on the clans from White Wolf, like I do, disintegrating will get rid of them permanently. Vatras
TheGreenGriffon 10-31-04, 05:26 PM	well pretty much thats a given, with house rules you can do anything you want to. But this discussion is about what the games rules itself says on the subject.