Does the shapechanger subtype affect template eligibility ? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Does the shapechanger subtype affect template eligibility ? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JiCi
03-22-06, 10:58 AM Can a humanoid (or giant) with the shapechanger subtype is still treated as a "normal" humanoid for the purpose of templates ? Does it lose the subtype (and all related abilities) if it changes type, such as changing from humanoid to monstrous humanoid ?

For example:
- you have a human dire wereeagle: humanoid (shapechanger) which I applied the lycanthrope template using a dire eagle (from Races of Stone)
- I apply the winged template (from Savage Species) on my human: it becomes a monstrous humanoid... and I have no idea if it keeps the shapechanger subtype.

This is where I'm stuck. I don't know which creature can legally have the shapechanger subtype. If a creature with that subtype changes into another creature that cannot have this subtype, does this mean it loses any related abilities to the subtype ?

Thanks in advance

JiCi
pileobone
03-22-06, 11:06 AM Yeah, pretty sure it would keep it's subtype. After all, it can still change shape right? Losing this subtype would basically mean no more transformations. Besides, a template that would force it to lost its subtypes would say so in the description.
Talisman
03-22-06, 11:07 AM From the SRD:

Shapechanger Subtype: A shapechanger has the supernatural ability to assume one or more alternate forms. Many magical effects allow some kind of shape shifting, and not every creature that can change shapes has the shapechanger subtype.
Traits: A shapechanger possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
—Proficient with its natural weapons, with simple weapons, and with any weapons mentioned in the creature’s description.
—Proficient with any armor mentioned in the creature’s description, as well as all lighter forms. If no form of armor is mentioned, the shapechanger is not proficient with armor. A shapechanger is proficient with shields if it is proficient with any type of armor.

Nothing helpful there. In general, a template allows you to keep any subtypes unless it specifically forbids them (such as a fallen celestail, losing the "Good" subtype) or the type change renders them a moot point. For example, Lizardfolk are humanoid (reptilian). A winged lizardfolk becomes a monstrous humanoid, losing the reptilian subtype since that only applies to humanoids.

I say keep the shapechanger subtype. Your human dire wereeagle is still a shapechanger (that is, he can still "assume one or more alternate forms"), and the shapechanger subtype, unlike the humanoid subtypes can be applied to pretty much any creature type.
JiCi
03-22-06, 06:59 PM Thanks for the answers

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JiCi 03-22-06, 10:58 AM	Can a humanoid (or giant) with the shapechanger subtype is still treated as a "normal" humanoid for the purpose of templates ? Does it lose the subtype (and all related abilities) if it changes type, such as changing from humanoid to monstrous humanoid ? For example: - you have a human dire wereeagle: humanoid (shapechanger) which I applied the lycanthrope template using a dire eagle (from Races of Stone) - I apply the winged template (from Savage Species) on my human: it becomes a monstrous humanoid... and I have no idea if it keeps the shapechanger subtype. This is where I'm stuck. I don't know which creature can legally have the shapechanger subtype. If a creature with that subtype changes into another creature that cannot have this subtype, does this mean it loses any related abilities to the subtype ? Thanks in advance JiCi
pileobone 03-22-06, 11:06 AM	Yeah, pretty sure it would keep it's subtype. After all, it can still change shape right? Losing this subtype would basically mean no more transformations. Besides, a template that would force it to lost its subtypes would say so in the description.
Talisman 03-22-06, 11:07 AM	From the SRD: Shapechanger Subtype: A shapechanger has the supernatural ability to assume one or more alternate forms. Many magical effects allow some kind of shape shifting, and not every creature that can change shapes has the shapechanger subtype. Traits: A shapechanger possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry). —Proficient with its natural weapons, with simple weapons, and with any weapons mentioned in the creature’s description. —Proficient with any armor mentioned in the creature’s description, as well as all lighter forms. If no form of armor is mentioned, the shapechanger is not proficient with armor. A shapechanger is proficient with shields if it is proficient with any type of armor. Nothing helpful there. In general, a template allows you to keep any subtypes unless it specifically forbids them (such as a fallen celestail, losing the "Good" subtype) or the type change renders them a moot point. For example, Lizardfolk are humanoid (reptilian). A winged lizardfolk becomes a monstrous humanoid, losing the reptilian subtype since that only applies to humanoids. I say keep the shapechanger subtype. Your human dire wereeagle is still a shapechanger (that is, he can still "assume one or more alternate forms"), and the shapechanger subtype, unlike the humanoid subtypes can be applied to pretty much any creature type.
JiCi 03-22-06, 06:59 PM	Thanks for the answers