Does this strike anyone else as stupid? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Does this strike anyone else as stupid? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Shaggy_Shaggs
08-29-06, 11:13 AM Blood Drain (Ex)

A vampire can suck blood from a living victim with its fangs by making a successful grapple check. If it pins the foe, it drains blood, dealing 1d4 points of Constitution drain each round the pin is maintained. On each such successful attack, the vampire gains 5 temporary hit points.
Why the heck should a nonmagical ability that just takes out blood inflict permanent ability score loss? Even if it were supernatural, it's just blood loss. People recover from blood loss normally, why should this be so special?

I think the term "drain" was used there simply to go with the name of the ability, without really considering the implications too thoroughly. My solution would just be a minor house rule modification - keep it almost the same, but change "Constitution drain" to "Constitution damage". I've got one guy bending over backward trying to make this silly nonsensical RAW instance sound reasonable, though.

Now, this isn't a DM vs player thing really, just a disagreement. What do you all think? Damage, or drain?
Secrets Untold
08-29-06, 11:23 AM Because vampire saliva has a chemical in it that prevents blood from regenerating. Or maybe the blood loss is replenished by drawing from vital organs. I don't know, these are possiblities.
420
08-29-06, 11:57 AM Now, this isn't a DM vs player thing really, just a disagreement. What do you all think? Damage, or drain?
It's drain because the Vampire gains hit points from it. Unlike damage the Vampire is transforming your lost constitution into life for itself.

-420
RobbyPants
08-29-06, 03:14 PM I also think the blood drain should be changed from Constitution drain to Constitution damage.

About a month ago or so, I re-tooled the vampire to gain abilities as their level increased. I figured this was more simple than trying to add in rules for age categories. Anyway, along with many other changes and additions, I changed the drain to damage in my campaign.
420
08-29-06, 05:51 PM I also think the blood drain should be changed from Constitution drain to Constitution damage.

From the 3.5 SDR:
ABILITY SCORE LOSS
Various attacks cause ability score loss, either ability damage or ability drain. Points lost to ability damage return at the rate of 1 point per day (or double that if the character gets complete bed rest) to each damaged ability, and the spells lesser restoration and restoration offset ability damage as well. Ability drain, however, is permanent, though restoration can restore even those lost ability score points.

Traditionally a vampire is suppose to visit a victim over the course of three nights, draining a third of their blood each night. If you change it from drain to damage you remove a major aspect of vampire lore.

I think, in this case, WotC knows best.

-420
Vaalingrade Ashland
08-29-06, 06:20 PM Money says its because they forgot 'drain' was an actual game term!

See also: Shadowy illumination.
earthbound
08-29-06, 06:36 PM IMO it should be just as it is written. The vampire drains blood from it's victim in exchange for hit points and at the same time brings the victim closer to being a vampire themselves(in d&d the energy drain is what i don't get). If the vampire didn't create spawn thru the blood drain then it should be damage but since he does it should be drain.
RobbyPants
08-29-06, 08:36 PM I guess where I was coming form on the Damage Vs Drain idea is that people do heal blood over the corse of time.

If you take an average person (Con 10), and the vampire drains them 4 points per night (which is part of the vampire rework I did), even with healing one point per day, the person would succumb within 3 days.

I'm not saying people who use drain are wrong, I'm just saying this is how I've chosen to do it. The drain does sort of make sense with the creating spawn theme.
420
08-29-06, 10:51 PM I guess where I was coming form on the Damage Vs Drain idea is that people do heal blood over the corse of time.
Not if the vampire is replacing the victim's blood with its own ichor as Secrets Untold pointed out earlier.

-420

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shaggy_Shaggs 08-29-06, 11:13 AM	Blood Drain (Ex) A vampire can suck blood from a living victim with its fangs by making a successful grapple check. If it pins the foe, it drains blood, dealing 1d4 points of Constitution drain each round the pin is maintained. On each such successful attack, the vampire gains 5 temporary hit points. Why the heck should a nonmagical ability that just takes out blood inflict permanent ability score loss? Even if it were supernatural, it's just blood loss. People recover from blood loss normally, why should this be so special? I think the term "drain" was used there simply to go with the name of the ability, without really considering the implications too thoroughly. My solution would just be a minor house rule modification - keep it almost the same, but change "Constitution drain" to "Constitution damage". I've got one guy bending over backward trying to make this silly nonsensical RAW instance sound reasonable, though. Now, this isn't a DM vs player thing really, just a disagreement. What do you all think? Damage, or drain?
Secrets Untold 08-29-06, 11:23 AM	Because vampire saliva has a chemical in it that prevents blood from regenerating. Or maybe the blood loss is replenished by drawing from vital organs. I don't know, these are possiblities.
420 08-29-06, 11:57 AM	Now, this isn't a DM vs player thing really, just a disagreement. What do you all think? Damage, or drain? It's drain because the Vampire gains hit points from it. Unlike damage the Vampire is transforming your lost constitution into life for itself. -420
RobbyPants 08-29-06, 03:14 PM	I also think the blood drain should be changed from Constitution drain to Constitution damage. About a month ago or so, I re-tooled the vampire to gain abilities as their level increased. I figured this was more simple than trying to add in rules for age categories. Anyway, along with many other changes and additions, I changed the drain to damage in my campaign.
420 08-29-06, 05:51 PM	I also think the blood drain should be changed from Constitution drain to Constitution damage. From the 3.5 SDR: ABILITY SCORE LOSS Various attacks cause ability score loss, either ability damage or ability drain. Points lost to ability damage return at the rate of 1 point per day (or double that if the character gets complete bed rest) to each damaged ability, and the spells lesser restoration and restoration offset ability damage as well. Ability drain, however, is permanent, though restoration can restore even those lost ability score points. Traditionally a vampire is suppose to visit a victim over the course of three nights, draining a third of their blood each night. If you change it from drain to damage you remove a major aspect of vampire lore. I think, in this case, WotC knows best. -420
Vaalingrade Ashland 08-29-06, 06:20 PM	Money says its because they forgot 'drain' was an actual game term! See also: Shadowy illumination.
earthbound 08-29-06, 06:36 PM	IMO it should be just as it is written. The vampire drains blood from it's victim in exchange for hit points and at the same time brings the victim closer to being a vampire themselves(in d&d the energy drain is what i don't get). If the vampire didn't create spawn thru the blood drain then it should be damage but since he does it should be drain.
RobbyPants 08-29-06, 08:36 PM	I guess where I was coming form on the Damage Vs Drain idea is that people do heal blood over the corse of time. If you take an average person (Con 10), and the vampire drains them 4 points per night (which is part of the vampire rework I did), even with healing one point per day, the person would succumb within 3 days. I'm not saying people who use drain are wrong, I'm just saying this is how I've chosen to do it. The drain does sort of make sense with the creating spawn theme.
420 08-29-06, 10:51 PM	I guess where I was coming form on the Damage Vs Drain idea is that people do heal blood over the corse of time. Not if the vampire is replacing the victim's blood with its own ichor as Secrets Untold pointed out earlier. -420