Dogs to powerful? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dogs to powerful? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rondulin
07-26-06, 06:03 PM I got the impression that the statistics for dogs in MM are way too powerful. Of course a big dog is dangerous. But an armed man should be able to deal with it (which is not the case if you take a look at the riding dog's statistics). A (riding) dog will easily beat any 1st level warrior, which seems odd to me. If you think of typical guard patrol with two guards and one dog, the dog is the much bigger problem. That's weird.

So is it just me or are the dogs overpowered?
Shaggy_Shaggs
07-26-06, 06:36 PM I got the impression that the statistics for dogs in MM are way too powerful. Of course a big dog is dangerous. But an armed man should be able to deal with it (which is not the case if you take a look at the riding dog's statistics). A (riding) dog will easily beat any 1st level warrior, which seems odd to me. If you think of typical guard patrol with two guards and one dog, the dog is the much bigger problem. That's weird.

So is it just me or are the dogs overpowered?
The "typical guard patrol" uses a dog, not a riding dog. Riding dogs are the really big ones... the saint bernards, the war bred mastiffs, that sort. The dogs that'll be as big as a man and will eat a german shepherd for breakfast.

You're just comparing the wrong monster entry, is all.
stabs
07-26-06, 06:37 PM Not nearly as overpowered as Cats.

Claw/Claw/Bite?! Agh! Imagine if you forgot to feed your kitty and she tried to take you down!

You're doing 1d3 with a +0 attack roll against her AC 14, she's doing 1 dmg with a +4/+4/-1 attack roll against your AC 10.

RUUUUUN!
Edymnion
07-26-06, 06:46 PM Yes, the Riding Dogs in the MM are not your normal little pitbulls, they're the BIG puppies, the kind that can rip your throat out while keeping all four feet on the ground. We're talking a RIDING dog, as in, you could put an 8-10 year old on this thing, and they could ride it like a horse.
R.M.G.C.L.F.
07-26-06, 06:53 PM I think evidence suggests that the MM creators were dog people. Dog's have better dexterity than cats, with 17 over their mere 15, the latter being average for tiny sized creatures.
JulesCARV
07-26-06, 07:00 PM The D&D system is structured so that it's good at representing very powerful entities, but kind of stutters at representing weak things.

An unarmed human commoner is one of the weakest creatures in the game, not just by happenstance, but because the mechanics have a tough time representing anything weaker. This is silly, of course, because there are many things weaker than human commoners (cats really should be, for instance), but the mechanics can't really do it.

This is why I think that "typical people" should be represented as level 2-4 characters, and most campaigns might start at level 3 (say), with NPC classes that are, in their non-adventurous ways, on par with PC classes: so that true weakness can actually be mechanically represented, as opposed to average housecats being able to kill average people.
Rondulin
07-27-06, 04:19 AM The "typical guard patrol" uses a dog, not a riding dog. Riding dogs are the really big ones... the saint bernards, the war bred mastiffs, that sort. The dogs that'll be as big as a man and will eat a german shepherd for breakfast.

You're just comparing the wrong monster entry, is all.

Well the MM gives statistics for a small dog and a riding dog. A german shepherd does surely not fall under the first category. In fact the entry for riding dogs states that it includes huskies and collies as well. A german shephard is about the same size and weight. Thus a german shephard uses the statistics of a riding dog.

Besides just being bigger does't make a dog more dangerous. The saint bernard is a good example of how a dog (that was about the size of a german shepherd in former times) was overbred and became so fat that it can't be used as a working dog anymore.

Anyway I still think that dogs are overpowered. They are even better than a wolf.
Raven Dark
07-27-06, 10:20 AM The "typical guard patrol" uses a dog, not a riding dog. Riding dogs are the really big ones... the saint bernards, the war bred mastiffs, that sort. The dogs that'll be as big as a man and will eat a german shepherd for breakfast.

You're just comparing the wrong monster entry, is all.

Actually, they probably do use riding dogs as their gaurd dogs. A dog is anything less than 50 pounds (see the entry), and I doubt a typical guard patrol uses poodles to fight crime. :rolleyes:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rondulin 07-26-06, 06:03 PM	I got the impression that the statistics for dogs in MM are way too powerful. Of course a big dog is dangerous. But an armed man should be able to deal with it (which is not the case if you take a look at the riding dog's statistics). A (riding) dog will easily beat any 1st level warrior, which seems odd to me. If you think of typical guard patrol with two guards and one dog, the dog is the much bigger problem. That's weird. So is it just me or are the dogs overpowered?
Shaggy_Shaggs 07-26-06, 06:36 PM	I got the impression that the statistics for dogs in MM are way too powerful. Of course a big dog is dangerous. But an armed man should be able to deal with it (which is not the case if you take a look at the riding dog's statistics). A (riding) dog will easily beat any 1st level warrior, which seems odd to me. If you think of typical guard patrol with two guards and one dog, the dog is the much bigger problem. That's weird. So is it just me or are the dogs overpowered? The "typical guard patrol" uses a dog, not a riding dog. Riding dogs are the really big ones... the saint bernards, the war bred mastiffs, that sort. The dogs that'll be as big as a man and will eat a german shepherd for breakfast. You're just comparing the wrong monster entry, is all.
stabs 07-26-06, 06:37 PM	Not nearly as overpowered as Cats. Claw/Claw/Bite?! Agh! Imagine if you forgot to feed your kitty and she tried to take you down! You're doing 1d3 with a +0 attack roll against her AC 14, she's doing 1 dmg with a +4/+4/-1 attack roll against your AC 10. RUUUUUN!
Edymnion 07-26-06, 06:46 PM	Yes, the Riding Dogs in the MM are not your normal little pitbulls, they're the BIG puppies, the kind that can rip your throat out while keeping all four feet on the ground. We're talking a RIDING dog, as in, you could put an 8-10 year old on this thing, and they could ride it like a horse.
R.M.G.C.L.F. 07-26-06, 06:53 PM	I think evidence suggests that the MM creators were dog people. Dog's have better dexterity than cats, with 17 over their mere 15, the latter being average for tiny sized creatures.
JulesCARV 07-26-06, 07:00 PM	The D&D system is structured so that it's good at representing very powerful entities, but kind of stutters at representing weak things. An unarmed human commoner is one of the weakest creatures in the game, not just by happenstance, but because the mechanics have a tough time representing anything weaker. This is silly, of course, because there are many things weaker than human commoners (cats really should be, for instance), but the mechanics can't really do it. This is why I think that "typical people" should be represented as level 2-4 characters, and most campaigns might start at level 3 (say), with NPC classes that are, in their non-adventurous ways, on par with PC classes: so that true weakness can actually be mechanically represented, as opposed to average housecats being able to kill average people.
Rondulin 07-27-06, 04:19 AM	The "typical guard patrol" uses a dog, not a riding dog. Riding dogs are the really big ones... the saint bernards, the war bred mastiffs, that sort. The dogs that'll be as big as a man and will eat a german shepherd for breakfast. You're just comparing the wrong monster entry, is all. Well the MM gives statistics for a small dog and a riding dog. A german shepherd does surely not fall under the first category. In fact the entry for riding dogs states that it includes huskies and collies as well. A german shephard is about the same size and weight. Thus a german shephard uses the statistics of a riding dog. Besides just being bigger does't make a dog more dangerous. The saint bernard is a good example of how a dog (that was about the size of a german shepherd in former times) was overbred and became so fat that it can't be used as a working dog anymore. Anyway I still think that dogs are overpowered. They are even better than a wolf.
Raven Dark 07-27-06, 10:20 AM	The "typical guard patrol" uses a dog, not a riding dog. Riding dogs are the really big ones... the saint bernards, the war bred mastiffs, that sort. The dogs that'll be as big as a man and will eat a german shepherd for breakfast. You're just comparing the wrong monster entry, is all. Actually, they probably do use riding dogs as their gaurd dogs. A dog is anything less than 50 pounds (see the entry), and I doubt a typical guard patrol uses poodles to fight crime. :rolleyes: