Post/Author/DateTime	Post
robertliguori 03-02-05, 11:03 PM	So, I'm making my own campaign world, and in doing so, am fixing a lot of what I regard as silly cosmology in the current D&D world. (The modrons are back, for one thing.) One thing that has always bugged me is the undead == evil, especially for the mindless undead. The creation of the undead, but happy and shiny and with flowers on, in the BoED and Eberron did not thrill me. So, I'm trying to find a good explanation that will let me use a great deal of source material and make sense. Here's what I have so far: Undead are created and animated by negative energy. However, what drives them is their base emotions. The process of becoming undead strips from one all of the feelings that are regarded as good, such as love, mercy, kindness, guilt, and the like. As such, it is nearly impossible for an undead to become good. Each kind of undead is associated with a particular drive or desire. The mindless undead and ghouls, are driven by animalistic hunger. Wights are driven by malice, vampires by hunger, liches and mummies by fear of passing on, ghosts by whatever their purpouse is, etc. Undead can be good, but have no drive, incentive or any other reason to be. Deathless are driven by higher impulses. A deathless can only be created from a willing dead person, and only to fulfill a specific task that the person was motivated to perform in life. This task needs to be, for lack of a better term, noble. A deathless could not be created to finish a quest for treasure, even if the treasure were going to be used for good ends. You'd get a queue of potential deathless from fallen soldiers defending their nation from invaders, though, even if the nation was an evil one. (Of course, an evil nation would not have many good clerics running around.) The creation of deathless requires a personal expenditure of XP from the one raising them, and the deathless's souls return to their planes when their task is either complete or unacheiveable. Deathless cannot be brought back for open-ended tasks, although they can if the task has a clear, obtainable limit. For example, a guardian spirit created from a deceased protector of the royal family could be created to watch over the king's daughter until she married, reached a certain age, or the like. Deathless may end their existence at any time. Stats of basic soldier-deathless and healer-deathless will follow. This sound any good to anyone?
Ogre4Hire 03-03-05, 12:01 PM	Why even bother with deathless. Just make'm undead and be done with it.
green_yawgmoth 03-03-05, 08:10 PM	Seconding "deathless can go screw themselves". It was a poor idea to begin with, since positive/negative energy DOES NOT HAVE AN ALIGNMENT. Mindless creatures are inherently neutral, since they do not have any ability for concepts at all, much less good/evil. They do what they are told - a good necromancer could control a horde of skeletons to protect the LG king, or they could be told to attack the king after being hit with a big rebuke check of an evil cleric. And they wouldn't know the difference at all, because they are literally as smart as a bag of crap. I would say just run with the 3.0 undead alignments and be done with it; it's so much more simple, and makes a lot more sense. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
twad 03-03-05, 08:27 PM	personally i like the concept of emotions that drives them. But the deathless can end his existence at anytime? Do you mean he can do that after his job is done or at ANY time?
robertliguori 03-03-05, 11:06 PM	But the deathless can end his existence at anytime? Do you mean he can do that after his job is done or at ANY time? After the task is complete or rendered impossible, deathless automatically leave. However, should they be convinced that their cause is not righteous, or be in danger of being trapped forever on this plane, or some such, they can end their existence with a thought. Basically, I was going for the polar opposite of the tormented damned soul trapped in a cursed existence with my deathless.
Knight_of_spades 03-04-05, 05:22 AM	A 0 int creature who is NE is much more creepy than a neutral one.
Slagger the Chuul 03-04-05, 08:36 AM	According to at least one theory mentioned in Libris Mortis, the presence of an undead causes a drain on energy the Material Plane, with the undead creature sustained by feeding on that energy as it spirals into the hungry void of the Negative Energy Plane. By this logic, an undead is evil because it continually saps life from the substance of reality (there's also a mechanic in Libris Mortis for applying effects like unhallow when there's a lot of undead in one place).
Purple Yin 03-04-05, 09:18 AM	may i add that in eberron, where the deathless are from, the plane of negative energy is evil in alignment, and the plane where posative energy comes from is good in alignment.
Mirtek 03-04-05, 10:47 AM	may i add that in eberron, where the deathless are from, the plane of negative energy is evil in alignment, and the plane where posative energy comes from is good in alignment. May I add that there were evil undead, powered by the positive energy plane, in 2e? :D
Ogre4Hire 03-04-05, 12:45 PM	Yeah, mummies. BTW, Deathless first showed up in the Book of Exalted Deeds, about a year before the Ebberon Campaign setting was released. The only reason for them was because the authors wanted to make dead creatures but thought that undead were too icky to be Exalted (or something like that). PS Speaking of mummies, I think that they should be motivated by a sense of duty and honor to protect their tome from intruders, rather than a fear of passing into the afterlife.