Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Derren S. 02-28-04, 12:56 PM	What is your opinon to the Sense Weakness feat and Vulnerability spell? After the DR change in 3.5 DR isn't very hard anymore to break (especially the DR dragons have) so I don't see why such spells/feats are neccessary and I also don't think that DR decrasing feats/spells should exist at all. Some things shouldn't imo be negatable by a feat/spell.
krichaiushii 03-01-04, 10:09 PM	Just because something is produced by WotC, does not mean that it must be immediately placed in all D&D campaigns. If you, as DM, don't care for something, simply disallow it. As to these particular items, I have no qualms with them.
was_fired 03-01-04, 11:01 PM	I banned both for exactly those reasons.
jcw8705 03-02-04, 06:06 PM	It's actually a very useful feat in a campaign that centers around low-magic. My own game runs like that and DR is one of the toughest things for the players to bypass. The ranger in the group is 25th level and his sword is only Superior (slightly better than Masterwork i.e. +1 hit/damage) but not magical.
Sheer_FALACY 03-02-04, 09:02 PM	Originally posted by jcw8705 It's actually a very useful feat in a campaign that centers around low-magic. My own game runs like that and DR is one of the toughest things for the players to bypass. The ranger in the group is 25th level and his sword is only Superior (slightly better than Masterwork i.e. +1 hit/damage) but not magical. Any campaign where the best item is worth 2000 gp when total wealth is supposed to be ~2.1 million has irretrievably sacrificed balance. This is the kind of game that has people talking about how overpowered VoP is.
jcw8705 03-03-04, 12:00 AM	Interesting. I would say that balance is achieved when a campaign has both an ability to last, each character can best and be bested by any other character of approximately the same level and ability, and most of all when it does not devolve into a game reminiscent of what is found once you defeat Diablo (i.e. you start back at the beginning at 25th level and oddly enough the skeletons are now 25th level as well). While the rules indicate character wealth of magnitudes greater than small nations, simply because that is not done does not mean that game balance has been lost. I myself find it ridiculous to have a group of characters decked out in millions of gold pieces worth of magical equipment ala Monty Haul, rather than running a game where the game is more about the characters than what equipment they have purchased. Oddly, numerous fantasy novels of high acclaim take this approach. It works for these authors, thousands of readers enjoy them, and I find the game is more than capable of surviving when a campaign world is of high fantasy and of low magic (i.e. lack of easy access to magic of both spell and item types). I'd be interested in hearing how this has irretrievably sacrificed balance. Thanks, John
Iron Chef Vastrox 03-03-04, 08:30 PM	Originally posted by jcw8705 I'd be interested in hearing how this has irretrievably sacrificed balance. Because the game mechanics assume a certain amount of wealth-based power at a certain level. For instance, a first level character with +5 adamantite fullplate that grants its wearer 50 bonus hitpoints is obviously broken. But a 20th level Wizard equipped with nothing more than a quarterstaff and a 15 Intelligence is also broken. A typical CR 25, i.e. a monster that your party of 25th level characters would be able to overcome with ease by only expending 1/5 of party resources would be a Red Great Wyrm Dragon. There's simply no way that you will drag this beast down considering a.) it cannot possibly miss your artificially low armor classes, b.) there is no way that you can avoid its breath weapon or spells with your artificially low saves, and c.) its defenses mean that the vast majority of attacks will bounce off of its armor class, or superior saves.
Ogre4Hire 03-03-04, 09:36 PM	I agree. Another point is that low magic worlds make spellcasting classes even more powerful at high levels compaired to non-spellcasters. However, this is not the thread to discuss this. Personally, I thought that those two feats were more balanced that the Surpress Weakness feat was. I'm just fundamentally opposed to allowing a monster to somehow just learn how to not take more damage from an energy source it's vulnerable to without using magic.
jcw8705 03-04-04, 01:29 AM	The above notes seem to think that while I reduced magical items, I did nothing to take that into consideration with monsters nor spellcasters. I agree whole-heartedly that if everything else is kept and I simply reduced the number of magical items, that it would be unbalanced. The system as it stands unbalances itself rapidly at high levels when clerics and wizards have access to awesome magics (even more so at Epic levels) and fighters, rogues, etc. do not. Additionally, the CR system is a guideline. Some monsters will find themselves far more able or far more easily beaten depending on the particular group dynamic/set-up. A dread wraith will run amok amongst fighters without Ghost Weapon, yet find itself quickly dispatched against a single Cleric with the Sun Domain. Like-wise, a rogue heavy party will find itself at a serious disadvantage against Constructs and Undead than a party made up of fighters. Wizards would find themselves at a tremendous disadvantage if they were the only members of a party and a Beholder or Iron Golem sought to destroy them. If you know the abilities of your players and your group, a good DM can adjust CR's as need be to account for such discrepancies. The system is based on 4 encounters each using up resources equal to 1/4 of a member's resources, with a party of course being equal to 4. Leveling is then based off of 4 such encounters. If I can use up my parties resources at that same rate with different monsters whose 'CR' is lower or higher than standard, then I think that more than suffices to fulfill the requirements and keeps things quite balanced. Of course, when you consider such spells as Wish, Time Stop, Bane Weapon (4th Priest from one of the 3.0 modules), Align Weapon, Holy Weapon, etc. (and the numerous attendant magical items that many characters in most campaigns have), is a feat that reduces a dragon's DR by 5 really all that much? Especially considering how easily spells can be gained that bypass DR (most Dragons have only DR #/Magic). A feat used on such in a high-magic world is almost certainly wasted. Although some of the more dangerous demons and devils that might have DR #/Cold Iron and Magic or similar, might find the feat somewhat dangerous. However, that being said, what character in his right mind in a world of that sort even goes battling such creatures without something close to the right magical potentcy. Thanks, John