DR- VRs Fast healing [Archive] - Wizards Community

DR- VRs Fast healing [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Eikcuf
10-13-05, 11:38 PM When I was making a new, player monster. I was puzzeld with this quiestion. What is the more powerfull ability in combat, Fast Healing 5 or DR - 5?
So forum nerds what do you think?
Slagger the Chuul
10-14-05, 12:20 AM It largely depends on your situation; if you're going toe-to-toe with a 20th level fighter, then DR is obviously the way to go, while it will be pretty much useless when you're facing a magic user.

All things considered, I'd have to say fast healing is significantly more powerful overall. It's generally easy enough to avoid full melee combat, and there are a lot more effects against which fast healing will be helpful.

If it's for use by players, then fast healing is far and away better than damage reduction. The ability to completely recover your hit points outside of combat cannot be overlooked.
runestar
10-14-05, 02:32 AM In combat, dr is generally better than fast healing.

Outside of combat, fast healing is naturally better.

If what you are looking for is combat survival, then go with dr.
Tyler Do'Urden
10-14-05, 02:39 AM DR 5/— is way more potent than fast healing 5. You get attacked four times, your DR has eaten 20 points, whereas the fast healing has still only gotten you back 5.

However fast healing will let you outlast other combatants because you can just escape combat for a few minutes, then charge back in fully healed. Even if your enemy has a cleric with him/is a cleric, he'll run out of spells. You won't run out of fast healing.
Ogre4Hire
10-14-05, 03:53 PM Fast healing is actually far more powerful in the long run.

Sure, you take 20 few points damage with DR, but basically Fast healing means that the enemy's got to take you down, or you'll just keep coming back. It's especially devastating with hit-and-run tactics.
Sarlax
10-15-05, 05:28 AM When I was making a new, player monster. I was puzzeld with this quiestion. What is the more powerfull ability in combat, Fast Healing 5 or DR - 5?
In combat, I'd certainly say DR is superior. If you're hit more than once, it pays off.

If you're making a monster, DR is a lot better. From the monster's perspective, the game is resolved in one of two ways: it's death or the PCs' deaths. DR is better at keeping it from dying. If the PCs die, who cares which ability is better?

You say however it's a "player monster," though. Players can game fast healing very well. One feature of D&D combat is that a monster of CR X uses 25% of a party's resources whose average level is X. If a group has fast healing available to it, it can save quite a few resources on healing spell slots and magic items.

Fast Healing is much better out of combat. In combat, it can't keep pace with damage output. Out of the fight, though, fast healing 1 is about as good as fast healing 10 - after a couple minutes, they translate to instant healing.
Slagger the Chuul
10-15-05, 07:49 AM I wouldn't go so far as to simply say damage reduction is better in "combat". It's better against weapons combat, but it's completely useless against spells in combat (unless the spell makes weaponlike attacks).
Sarlax
10-15-05, 08:39 AM I wouldn't go so far as to simply say damage reduction is better in "combat". It's better against weapons combat, but it's completely useless against spells in combat (unless the spell makes weaponlike attacks).
That's a fair point. I suppose I made my argument with the idea in mind that most damage in a battle comes from weapon attacks. I'd noticed that spell damage never quite keeps pace with weapons when it comes to dealing with a particular creature.
Raven Dark
10-15-05, 11:22 AM I wouldn't go so far as to simply say damage reduction is better in "combat". It's better against weapons combat, but it's completely useless against spells in combat (unless the spell makes weaponlike attacks).

Even spells that duplicate weapon attacks bypass DR completely.

Also DR does not protect you from physical damage that is not an attack--such as falling damage. Look at the definitions for DR in v3.5 It specifically states it reduces damage from ATTACKS. Falling off a cliff (and a number of other deadly scenarios) are not attacks.
Eikcuf
10-19-05, 03:55 PM Even spells that duplicate weapon attacks bypass DR completely.

Also DR does not protect you from physical damage that is not an attack--such as falling damage. Look at the definitions for DR in v3.5 It specifically states it reduces damage from ATTACKS. Falling off a cliff (and a number of other deadly scenarios) are not attacks.
So, taking this into account. It looks like Fast Healing is the winner 80 or more percent of the time.
1. Fast Healing wins in low ( 1-5)level player vrs.npc fights.
2. Fast Healing wins vers magic (at any level)
3. Fast Healing works on non wepon damage (ie. falling)
4. Fast Healing saves money, and works out of combat
5. Damage Reduction wins when you face many attacks and higher level baddies

Does anyone have anything to add? or Did I miss anything?
andrew dunn
10-20-05, 02:11 AM i haven't played 3.5 in a while but in 3.0 all i have to say is Creeping doom which is more powerful? if your envolved in any kind of melee combat DR is im my opinion more valuable. o well just wanted to throw my 2 cents in
Slagger the Chuul
10-20-05, 03:27 AM Even spells that duplicate weapon attacks bypass DR completely.

I was thinking of spells like telekinesis, where I personally wouldn't consider items thrown at a target to bypass damage reduction.
Callahan
10-20-05, 04:11 AM dr 5/- is a lot more powerful then fast healing 5.

This is why it's always reserved for higher level characters and monsters. regular DR/silver/magic/etc... is not as nice if one or two of the PCs have weapons that can counter it.
Slagger the Chuul
10-20-05, 02:26 PM This is why it's always reserved for higher level characters and monsters. regular DR/silver/magic/etc... is not as nice if one or two of the PCs have weapons that can counter it.

DR x/- tends to be rare on monsters because it doesn't encourage the players to pick up a diverse range of weapons.
Callahan
10-20-05, 02:43 PM DR x/- tends to be rare on monsters because it doesn't encourage the players to pick up a diverse range of weapons.
Yes that too.
fawr
10-21-05, 11:48 PM A couple of things that haven't been mentioned yet.

DR gives you virtual immunity to swarms.

DR can prevent some special attacks. For example most poisons only work if damage is dealt, so DR 5/- will mean you don't need to save v poison if a scorpion hits for 4 points of damage. However nowdays the damage of creatures tends to increase quite fast as your level increases, so this is really only useful if you face low level enemies.

Frankly if the choice was available I would go for DR 1/- & Fast Healing 1, because the first point is the most significant.
Sarlax
10-22-05, 12:38 AM DR gives you virtual immunity to swarms.
How is this so? DR protects you from swarm damage as though it were a normal weapon attack. It's certainly better than armor, since swarms don't make attack rolls, but DR will not grant anything like immunity to swarm damage; it's as effective against swarm attacks as it is against mundane attacks.
Silverthumb128
10-22-05, 02:34 AM I, personally, would take Fast Healing, given the two options. That way, I'm less reliant on being healed after/during combat, as time will heal my wounds. The rest, i.e. not getting hit as often, will certainly be my responsibility.

Say, for example, I were a Rogue, or Monk with a respectable AC, and 5 ranks in Tumble(I almost always take, just in case, in those classes). I can spend a few rounds going toe-to-toe with the aforementioned 20th level Fighter, then take Total Defense while letting my HP come back to me, then continue on in that pattern until victory.

I tend to favor my AC pretty highly, when making most characters, so that means I'm less likely to take the hits when I put my energies towards that, which, in a way, is about as good as Damage Reduction, so I won't need the DR as much if I am able to heal my own wounds without any specific actions other than defending.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Eikcuf 10-13-05, 11:38 PM	When I was making a new, player monster. I was puzzeld with this quiestion. What is the more powerfull ability in combat, Fast Healing 5 or DR - 5? So forum nerds what do you think?
Slagger the Chuul 10-14-05, 12:20 AM	It largely depends on your situation; if you're going toe-to-toe with a 20th level fighter, then DR is obviously the way to go, while it will be pretty much useless when you're facing a magic user. All things considered, I'd have to say fast healing is significantly more powerful overall. It's generally easy enough to avoid full melee combat, and there are a lot more effects against which fast healing will be helpful. If it's for use by players, then fast healing is far and away better than damage reduction. The ability to completely recover your hit points outside of combat cannot be overlooked.
runestar 10-14-05, 02:32 AM	In combat, dr is generally better than fast healing. Outside of combat, fast healing is naturally better. If what you are looking for is combat survival, then go with dr.
Tyler Do'Urden 10-14-05, 02:39 AM	DR 5/— is way more potent than fast healing 5. You get attacked four times, your DR has eaten 20 points, whereas the fast healing has still only gotten you back 5. However fast healing will let you outlast other combatants because you can just escape combat for a few minutes, then charge back in fully healed. Even if your enemy has a cleric with him/is a cleric, he'll run out of spells. You won't run out of fast healing.
Ogre4Hire 10-14-05, 03:53 PM	Fast healing is actually far more powerful in the long run. Sure, you take 20 few points damage with DR, but basically Fast healing means that the enemy's got to take you down, or you'll just keep coming back. It's especially devastating with hit-and-run tactics.
Sarlax 10-15-05, 05:28 AM	When I was making a new, player monster. I was puzzeld with this quiestion. What is the more powerfull ability in combat, Fast Healing 5 or DR - 5? In combat, I'd certainly say DR is superior. If you're hit more than once, it pays off. If you're making a monster, DR is a lot better. From the monster's perspective, the game is resolved in one of two ways: it's death or the PCs' deaths. DR is better at keeping it from dying. If the PCs die, who cares which ability is better? You say however it's a "player monster," though. Players can game fast healing very well. One feature of D&D combat is that a monster of CR X uses 25% of a party's resources whose average level is X. If a group has fast healing available to it, it can save quite a few resources on healing spell slots and magic items. Fast Healing is much better out of combat. In combat, it can't keep pace with damage output. Out of the fight, though, fast healing 1 is about as good as fast healing 10 - after a couple minutes, they translate to instant healing.
Slagger the Chuul 10-15-05, 07:49 AM	I wouldn't go so far as to simply say damage reduction is better in "combat". It's better against weapons combat, but it's completely useless against spells in combat (unless the spell makes weaponlike attacks).
Sarlax 10-15-05, 08:39 AM	I wouldn't go so far as to simply say damage reduction is better in "combat". It's better against weapons combat, but it's completely useless against spells in combat (unless the spell makes weaponlike attacks). That's a fair point. I suppose I made my argument with the idea in mind that most damage in a battle comes from weapon attacks. I'd noticed that spell damage never quite keeps pace with weapons when it comes to dealing with a particular creature.
Raven Dark 10-15-05, 11:22 AM	I wouldn't go so far as to simply say damage reduction is better in "combat". It's better against weapons combat, but it's completely useless against spells in combat (unless the spell makes weaponlike attacks). Even spells that duplicate weapon attacks bypass DR completely. Also DR does not protect you from physical damage that is not an attack--such as falling damage. Look at the definitions for DR in v3.5 It specifically states it reduces damage from ATTACKS. Falling off a cliff (and a number of other deadly scenarios) are not attacks.
Eikcuf 10-19-05, 03:55 PM	Even spells that duplicate weapon attacks bypass DR completely. Also DR does not protect you from physical damage that is not an attack--such as falling damage. Look at the definitions for DR in v3.5 It specifically states it reduces damage from ATTACKS. Falling off a cliff (and a number of other deadly scenarios) are not attacks. So, taking this into account. It looks like Fast Healing is the winner 80 or more percent of the time. 1. Fast Healing wins in low ( 1-5)level player vrs.npc fights. 2. Fast Healing wins vers magic (at any level) 3. Fast Healing works on non wepon damage (ie. falling) 4. Fast Healing saves money, and works out of combat 5. Damage Reduction wins when you face many attacks and higher level baddies Does anyone have anything to add? or Did I miss anything?
andrew dunn 10-20-05, 02:11 AM	i haven't played 3.5 in a while but in 3.0 all i have to say is Creeping doom which is more powerful? if your envolved in any kind of melee combat DR is im my opinion more valuable. o well just wanted to throw my 2 cents in
Slagger the Chuul 10-20-05, 03:27 AM	Even spells that duplicate weapon attacks bypass DR completely. I was thinking of spells like telekinesis, where I personally wouldn't consider items thrown at a target to bypass damage reduction.
Callahan 10-20-05, 04:11 AM	dr 5/- is a lot more powerful then fast healing 5. This is why it's always reserved for higher level characters and monsters. regular DR/silver/magic/etc... is not as nice if one or two of the PCs have weapons that can counter it.
Slagger the Chuul 10-20-05, 02:26 PM	This is why it's always reserved for higher level characters and monsters. regular DR/silver/magic/etc... is not as nice if one or two of the PCs have weapons that can counter it. DR x/- tends to be rare on monsters because it doesn't encourage the players to pick up a diverse range of weapons.
Callahan 10-20-05, 02:43 PM	DR x/- tends to be rare on monsters because it doesn't encourage the players to pick up a diverse range of weapons. Yes that too.
fawr 10-21-05, 11:48 PM	A couple of things that haven't been mentioned yet. DR gives you virtual immunity to swarms. DR can prevent some special attacks. For example most poisons only work if damage is dealt, so DR 5/- will mean you don't need to save v poison if a scorpion hits for 4 points of damage. However nowdays the damage of creatures tends to increase quite fast as your level increases, so this is really only useful if you face low level enemies. Frankly if the choice was available I would go for DR 1/- & Fast Healing 1, because the first point is the most significant.
Sarlax 10-22-05, 12:38 AM	DR gives you virtual immunity to swarms. How is this so? DR protects you from swarm damage as though it were a normal weapon attack. It's certainly better than armor, since swarms don't make attack rolls, but DR will not grant anything like immunity to swarm damage; it's as effective against swarm attacks as it is against mundane attacks.
Silverthumb128 10-22-05, 02:34 AM	I, personally, would take Fast Healing, given the two options. That way, I'm less reliant on being healed after/during combat, as time will heal my wounds. The rest, i.e. not getting hit as often, will certainly be my responsibility. Say, for example, I were a Rogue, or Monk with a respectable AC, and 5 ranks in Tumble(I almost always take, just in case, in those classes). I can spend a few rounds going toe-to-toe with the aforementioned 20th level Fighter, then take Total Defense while letting my HP come back to me, then continue on in that pattern until victory. I tend to favor my AC pretty highly, when making most characters, so that means I'm less likely to take the hits when I put my energies towards that, which, in a way, is about as good as Damage Reduction, so I won't need the DR as much if I am able to heal my own wounds without any specific actions other than defending.