Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lawless 06-07-04, 11:43 AM	Is there an example of the Draconic alphabet/font? If so where can I get it? Between the core books and various campaign settings it mentioned all over but I have found an example of it yet.
Derren S. 06-07-04, 02:23 PM	I remember there was a dragon magazine with Draconic language in it. Might even be the same as the one in the Draconomicon.
Gray Richardson 06-09-04, 02:10 AM	There is no draconic script or font, at least no official one for D&D. It is not even clear whether draconic uses an alphabet or ideograms like Chinese or Egyptian Hieroglyphics. The Draconomicon has a couple pages on the Draconic language but no Draconic writing. The look of a script is determined a lot by the tools used to write it. Babylonian Cuneiform looks a certain way because it was pressed into moist clay with a stylus. Chinese caligraphy is written with a brush. Modern cursive looks as it does because it is written with a pen or quill. Both Dwarven runes and Roman letters have those crisp straight lines which are condusive to writing in stone with a chisel. I imagine a Draconic Script might have a look that derives from and is most suited for drawing a sharp claw across wood or soft stone or compacted dirt. The letters might be linked like a cursive script with small circular flourishes and use lots of dots and cross bars. Such human alphabets as Syriac, Mongolian, Arabic, Javanese or Sinhalese are all scripts that I think look very close to what Dragons might design as a script for themselves. If you do a web search for any of those fonts above you should be able to find something that looks suitably draconic. Also if you google "fantasy fonts" you should find a ton of websites with various alien looking fonts that you could use. Someone may have created their own draconic font. I am not sure but if you check out Eberron which comes out this month it may have something on dragon writing. The most recent issue of Dragon magazine had some Draconic tatoos or symbols of some kind from the soon to be released Eberron campaign.
Lawless 06-09-04, 09:10 AM	Eberron will probably do what all other campaigns do, refer to it but not actually have script for it. The group I'm in agree that Tolkein's elvish script is for us the official elvish script in any campaign. We're trying to get something for the other races.
jedrious 06-09-04, 09:36 AM	there's a book out there called dancing with dragons by dj conway that has the full draconic script
Arnkel 06-09-04, 01:44 PM	In my campaigns draconic looks very similar to the writing of the Garous in White Wolf's Werewolf the Apocalypse game. As for the DJ Conway book, that book is more for Wiccans than RPGers.
jedrious 06-09-04, 03:39 PM	still has alot of interestinc draconic lore if you ignore the one chapter and apendixes about witchcraft, and what rpger doesn't know how to ignore parts of a book
MysteriousMan 06-14-04, 04:47 PM	yeah but hows that gon look to the religous folk out there: "Oh look at that, the d&d player bought a book on witchcraft. I condemn you to hell!" yes i am among those religious folk myself and thats how i'd see it, so i do know. Besides a wiccan book with any sort of alphabet in it is probably occult devil-worship symbols anyway, and who wants that right?
Deaths-Warden 06-14-04, 07:25 PM	Really I don't think it matters that much. Who cares about Wiccans. Cool font is cool font.
DarkestDragonofHell 06-14-04, 07:28 PM	No offense Mysterious Man, but that was one of the most intolerant statements I've ever heard. Not that I'm a wiccan, but they have just as much right to practice their religion as you do.
Darklion 06-14-04, 08:41 PM	yes i am among those religious folk myself and thats how i'd see it, so i do know. Besides a wiccan book with any sort of alphabet in it is probably occult devil-worship symbols anyway, and who wants that right?Many Wiccan books are printed in English. Perhaps you should stop speaking in the English language, what with its occult devil-worship symbols...
Edymnion 06-14-04, 09:00 PM	I'll second that Draconic should look like cuneiform or norse runes, straight lines and sharp angles that could easily be cut into a stone wall with a claw.
drachentoeter 06-15-04, 02:36 AM	I'm neither wiccan nor christian and to me both religions look pretty much alike. I believe that wiccan was based on the christian religion spiced up with some new age beliefs and tidbits from celtic and anglo-saxon folklore. As with all beliefs it seems to me that there can be no wrong or right, rather it's I believe this or that. If your religion makes you a better person I'm all for it but as for myself I'll hold my judgement till I die and can make a informed decision on the matter. What I don't like is when somebody knocks somebody elses religion. That is very disrespectful and as allready has been pointed out intolerant. If mystery man was born in India he'd have more than likely turned out to be a hindu, would that give him the right to knock christian religion? Also if he had read up on wiccan he'd know that they are as opposed to devil worshipping than the christians. Same difference. If I was him I'd apologize to those of wiccan believes for my degrading comments.
MysteriousMan 06-15-04, 11:40 AM	ok look im not "degrading" nobody. Some of you should think before you speak, a thing made much easier through the use of a message board. Im just saying that thats what any religious person will think and that the symbols in a wiccan book arent entirely innocent. No i do not think wiccans worship the devil, i believe something entirely different, but its not my place to say that right now. And no, drachentoeter, i will apologize for nothing
Khaibit_Ema_Neteru 06-15-04, 12:06 PM	Im just saying that thats what any religious person will think and that the symbols in a wiccan book arent entirely innocent. Okay, this brings up a series of questions in my head. 1) Christian fundies would be offended by a LOT of things I do. (In fact, I looked up the behavioural code for Jerry Fallwell's school, Liberty University, and in ONE MONTH ALONE, it says I would've accumulated 375,000 demerits). So why are they invited to my game again? And why do their (perpetually intolerant and more importantly wrong) opinions matter to me? Or anyone else for that matter? 2) Define "Innocent". I've never liked the word, except in respect to specific crimes, as opposed to a general state of being. But what, precisely, about wiccan symbols and practice, is not "innocent"? 3) Why are you using "Religious" to mean "Christian"? As far as I know, they, and the muslims, are the ONLY people who get offended by someone else practicing religion, so I can only assume they are the Irate "Religious" people of which you speak. However, it is perfectly possible to be a very "Religious" Hindu, who would have no problem with whatever you were doing, religiously. Be more careful with your words. Also, as an added note... It's "I'm not degrading anybody". Grammar makes everybody happy. Look, Wicca, while relatively new, is loosely based on religions that predate (monotheistic) judaism and christianity, and had very little to no contact with Zoroastrianism, which inspired them both. Therefore, to imply that the pagans, and later, the wiccans, worship an entity from YOUR mythology, while it might make sense within your mythology, looks amazingly self-centered, among other things, to people who do not view things through the lens of your religion. In other words, you can feel free to hold your little beliefs about other religions, but try not to share them around any form of reasonable human being. It will irritate them, at best.
OmiKapSi 06-15-04, 12:45 PM	Yay, nice to know that religious intolerance is alive and well.:rolleyes: And kudos to the rest of you for being enlightened people. Back to topic, I've got a script that I use for draconic in my games. Well, I will use it when I can find some players who will stick around for more than a month. =P It's not a font file, but it's pretty decent, IMHO, as a basis for a runic looking script. I could probably send it to anyone who was interested.
MysteriousMan 06-15-04, 06:05 PM	yall people got some tempers, if u dont like what i say, ignore me, no reason to get mad, sheesh, lighten up people its a forum i dont want to get in no more fights i was offering someone a little advice, that is all. Khaibit_Ema_Neteru: 1) i honestly dont care at all 2) witchcraft is a dangerous practise, as it can get you possessed by demons (or evil spirits, for those people with anger problems who can't tolerate christianity) 3) i am not in the least bit offended by other religions, i just simply am against witchcraft, i use the word religion to represent both judeasim and christianity, and consider muslim to be much different from these two things 4) obviously no amount of grammer can make you happy 5) i am telling things the way i see them, and that doesn't make me any more wrong than you I'm not trying to convert anybody here OmiKapSi: im not being intolerable i am offering someone some advice and then being assaulted by just about every forum member here no more fighting im not gon say nothin more here's a completely religion free draconic font, though u gotta pay http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=2267
Deaths-Warden 06-15-04, 06:48 PM	You've seen people possessed? Dude where do you live? Islam is a religion, Christianity and Judeaism are also religions. You know they all believe int he same god right? Different cultural rules thats why they usually so angry at each other. Alot of Bible-Thumpers are offended by DnD... It's "Satanical" I'm gonna go finish building my cult and summon evil spirits... Otherwise known as get my group together and roll some dice.
MysteriousMan 06-15-04, 06:59 PM	well, i actually live in florida:D
werewullfe3 06-15-04, 09:31 PM	Originally posted by Khaibit_Ema_Neteru 3) Why are you using "Religious" to mean "Christian"? As far as I know, they, and the muslims, are the ONLY people who get offended by someone else practicing religion, so I can only assume they are the Irate "Religious" people of which you speak. However, it is perfectly possible to be a very "Religious" Hindu, who would have no problem with whatever you were doing, religiously. Be more careful with your words. Look, Wicca, while relatively new, is loosely based on religions that predate (monotheistic) judaism and christianity, and had very little to no contact with Zoroastrianism, which inspired them both. Therefore, to imply that the pagans, and later, the wiccans, worship an entity from YOUR mythology, while it might make sense within your mythology, looks amazingly self-centered, among other things, to people who do not view things through the lens of your religion. About Hinduism: You probably don't understand the conservative Hindu base in India very well, just look at the events surrounding a lesbian-centered film released in that country in the past couple of weeks. On the Zoroastrianism: Judaism was *not* inspired by Zoroastrianism, that religion teaches that good and evil (symbolized by two Deities, though only one is seen as a “true” god) are basically equal and both need to exist for either to exist. Judaism teaches that everything is good (because everything is made by God, who is perfect), but anything that goes against the will of God (sin) is the only evil. Besides the two religions, while geographically close, were separated by one important factor (if you can believe the history of the Bible): The Hebrews were slaves in Egypt for at least four generation before the official religion began (when Moses released the Law and the Ten Commandments) so it's unlikely they could have absorbed the finer aspects a Persian religion within the forty years that they spent wondering the wilds after the Exodus and the two hundred years of slavery before that. With Christianity it's a little different. While the Satan* plays a bigger part in the New Testament (in the Old he only really plays a role in the events of Job), but his existence is more "Sin (or Temptation) Incarnate". It is only with the rise of Catholic Church (around 400 A.D.) that the Satan is risen to a level near the power of God and is used as a "boogy man" to scare in new converts. This can be seen as inspiration from Zoroastrianism. The early Christians viewed the Satan very differently, they may have thought that he ruled the kingdoms of the Earth, but he was ultimately a dog on the leash of God, a tool for the Tribulation of Revelation. Just wanted to clarify some things, sorry to waste you good peoples’ time :). *In Hebrew "Satan" means "Opponent" and in the Book of Job Satan plays the role of an attorney prosecuting Job.
Khaibit_Ema_Neteru 06-15-04, 10:31 PM	Mysterious Man: 1) I didn't require you to care. I just told you that the religious fundies I spoke of are not invited to my games, and therefore don't MATTER to my games. 2) A wiccan would say that only those who are meddling in things they aren't prepared for get possessed. An agnostic like me would say that they're probably just faking it. Whether they realize it or not. Same as pentecostals that speak in tongues. 3)Religion entails any system of belief. If you mean Judeo-Christianity, SAY judeo-christianity. And Islam is just another of a line of supercessionistic religions that includes Polytheistic Judaism, Monotheistic Judaism, and Christianity. 4) Double Negatives get under my skin. Nothing to be ashamed of, I just corrected you. 5) You're right. Neither of us is more wrong than the other, except perhaps in proper use of terminology. But I think the one that came out saying that someone else's religion was demonic is a far cry less polite. werewulffe: About Hinduism: You probably don't understand the conservative Hindu base in India very well, just look at the events surrounding a lesbian-centered film released in that country in the past couple of weeks. I was referring to religious practices, not social mores. Hinduism is a historically inclusivistic religion. However, there are conservatives everywhere. On the Zoroastrianism: Judaism was *not* inspired by Zoroastrianism, that religion teaches that good and evil (symbolized by two Deities, though only one is seen as a “true” god) are basically equal and both need to exist for either to exist. Judaism teaches that everything is good (because everything is made by God, who is perfect), but anything that goes against the will of God (sin) is the only evil. Besides the two religions, while geographically close, were separated by one important factor (if you can believe the history of the Bible): The Hebrews were slaves in Egypt for at least four generation before the official religion began (when Moses released the Law and the Ten Commandments) so it's unlikely they could have absorbed the finer aspects a Persian religion within the forty years that they spent wondering the wilds after the Exodus and the two hundred years of slavery before that. Incorrect. I'm not going to turn this thread into a history of world religions class. If you want to hear how it actually went down, e-mail or PM me. Any of you. Suffice to say, you're a bit mixed up about the doctrines of zoroastrianism, not to mention the history of the development of judaism.
Khaibit_Ema_Neteru 06-15-04, 10:33 PM	Double post. I fail.
Khaibit_Ema_Neteru 06-15-04, 10:38 PM	To get back on track: If you can get a hold of the white wolf book of the Bastet Werecats, their script reminds me very much of what draconic would look like. A more...delicate...version of werewolf claw-marks
Tenzhi 06-15-04, 10:46 PM	I always assumed that draconic script would be a more complex version of magical script, as the latter is an impure devolved version of the former. Of course, that doesn't describe what it looks like, exactly. ...
jagggar 06-15-04, 11:51 PM	Originally posted by Khaibit_Ema_Neteru I was referring to religious practices, not social mores. Hinduism is a historically inclusivistic religion. However, there are conservatives everywhere. So there could be conservative Wiccans that wouldn't like the suggestion of buying a book about Wicca just to use it as a RPG font source? For the ontopic part of this post: I disagree that draconic script would have straight rune like lines. I'd think the lines would be a little curved, kind of like if you stretch your fingers backwards.
Khaibit_Ema_Neteru 06-15-04, 11:58 PM	So there could be conservative Wiccans that wouldn't like the suggestion of buying a book about Wicca just to use it as a RPG font source? Ahh. Yes, there are. They are quite annoying. They take themselves far too seriously.
CrimsonPhoenix 06-16-04, 02:02 AM	First of all, please stop with the religious comments. As I'm sure you can see looking back, it can easily get out of hand. Nobody's fault really...just happens.... Anyway, about draconic. I see it as being a "fluid" language much like elven in LoTR. It would also be reasonably complex, considering dragons have had thousands of years to perfect it. There would also likely be different dialects based on the dragon variety. I would have Gold and Silver dragons use the most "correct" and complex form of draconic, while all chromatics (since they do not tolerate others to be near enough to learn from) would have the most crude versions. I, personally, would use cursive English as draconic, varying the vocabulary use and font complexity to mimic the differing dialects. This gives a reasonably "draconic looking" script, while still allowing you to use the draconic vocab from Draconomicon (since it uses English alphabet). You could probably finish off the language somewhat based on Draconomicon if you felt like it and had the time.
Deaths-Warden 06-16-04, 07:18 AM	I disagree that the chromatics would speak crudely. They are just as intelligent and personally I dislike the chroms. They are WotC's babies and I won't stand for it. Golds beat Terrasques... They live longer... They cast clerical spells like arcane ones... WTF! NO NO NO NO NO NO NO! I personally would have all Gold Dragons slaughtered.... Is currently played a young Red Dragon in a Draconic campaign
jagggar 06-16-04, 10:47 AM	Crudely as in needing a few :censored: when they talk? Sure. Other wise, it wouldn't be crude, it'd just be the dialect. Besides, each dragonkind is going to claim that it speaks the most pure Draconic. Though I think that all dragons probably could/would agree that anything written or spoken by a non-dragon probably wasn't "pure".
CrimsonPhoenix 06-16-04, 06:15 PM	I don't mean crude as in stupid I just mean less diverse. They are just as smart but raw intellect doesn't provide you with vocabulary. What I meant was more like what jagggar said (and certainly they would all think their's was most pure). His third point is good too. And for Deaths-Warden...at least you have no lack of pride :)
CrimsonPhoenix 06-16-04, 06:16 PM	I don't mean crude as in stupid I just mean less diverse. They are just as smart but raw intellect doesn't provide you with vocabulary. What I meant was more like what jagggar said (and certainly they would all think their's was most pure). His third point is good too. And no, Warden, my golds will get your pitiful red any day :) (yes that was plural...I'm talking about something along the lines of...an army? sure why not...)
Khaibit_Ema_Neteru 06-16-04, 07:32 PM	considering that I, and a number of people I know, learned most of our vocabulary from reading, rather than interacting with people (which, judging by most of the people I speak to, would only DETERIORATE my vocabulary), I would base the breadth of a dragon's vocabulary on how much they deal in books and magical lore, rather than their social tendencies. Can you imagine a brass dragon's vocabulary? It would be riddled with silly colloquialisms and corruptions that come from trying to speak too quickly. I can see Silvers, Golds, and Blues having the best vocabularies, with Bronzes and Greens coming in next, the bronzes being particularly excellent at terms relating to the sea and battle. I could see a bronze knowing 20 different words for shark but only one for "plains".
jagggar 06-17-04, 03:38 PM	How about how smart mommy and daddy were? I remember someone using this passage in a discussion about how much language a wyrmling would know. "It inherits a considerable body of pratical knowledge from its parents, though such inherent knowledge often lies burried in the wyrmling's memory, unnoticed and unused until it is needed." oh yeah. . . I'm not a guy. . .