Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Undercover 08-07-04, 12:52 PM	In another thread we've discussed some dragon building. Now I'd like to introduce a more interesting topic: how to fight effectively with a highly intelligent dragon, the cons and pros of any tactic. The only spell I'm assuming the dragon is affect by is greater arcane sight, if you want to change it it's up to you. 1- snatch spellcaster, fly away, kill in melee or anything you want, return for others; 2- Area dispel, silence on spellcaster, wingbind spellcaster, enter melee combat; 3- Wingstorm everyone, crush spellcaster, dispel and enfeeble fighters, enter melee/breath; 4- Plane shift to another plane, make manifest one, melee/breath, rinse and repeat. Problem with 1 is that a caster with a quickened or stilled spell can get away easily. Problem with 2 is that it takes 3 rounds to neutralize the spellcaster, and it's not a sure thing. The 3rd is interesting because it will give the dragon AoOs and might take care of the caster, but dealing with fighter types will take some rounds. The 4th is just plain wicked :devil: Share your tactics and let's discuss them!
obrysii 08-10-04, 10:46 PM	An evil dragon might not be opposed to using poison...it could easily 'farm' very nasty poison.
Babson99 08-16-04, 10:56 PM	Two words: Antimagic Field. I had an ancient green dragon (13th level sorcerer) cast this when fighting an APL 15 or 16 party, and the players immediately knew that they had lost. To be fair, the fight took place underwater, and the characters realized they'd die fast if their water breathing magic got knocked out. That said, once the spell was cast, it became a case of "I'm a powerful and ferocious with six attacks per round, and you're a bunch of easily popped meatbags."
Wayward Son 08-17-04, 09:36 AM	Which brings up my favorite tactic: know your battlefield better than your opponent. If said battlefield is the dragon's lair/territory, it should be a given that the dragon will know every square inch like the scales on his foreclaws. The dragon can and should exploit every bit of cover or concealment, every bolt-hole, every pond, every tree. The various Fog spells help with this, as does Polymorph, illusions and Teleport/Dimension Door. Dragons with burrow or swim speeds should use them to gain advantage (such as Babson's green dragon, above) by attacking from unexpected directions. Employing lesser guardians to soften up opponents is a great tactic, too. Anything from the sterotypical kobold tribe worshiping the dragon to hired mercenaries to summoned outsiders can put a serious dent in an approaching party, and usually causes them to waste precious spells and resources they could have used against the dragon. Heck, if the dragon has been in the area for a while, there's nothing preventing it from breeding its own half-dragon guardians with the local wildlife. A submerged black dragon's lair in a swamp is bad enough, but having to swim past a dozen half-black-dragon crocodiles to get there could end the hunt before the party sees their target. (If the party is really tough, make it half-black-dragon dire crocs. :D )
howlingwolf 08-19-04, 03:14 PM	Don't forget, most dragons probably wouldn't even BOTHER doing such themselves if they can help it. In a earlier thread, I pointed out Savage Species has nice feats you could use, giving dragons some unexpected attack forms like flings and sonic crashes. - They don't need to bother attacking themselves. It wouldn't be too difficult for a large dragon to pile up a good few tons of rocks / logs with advance warning and drop the entire lot on someone. Sneaky dragons such as coppers might use this, albeit less lethally. - Another version might be, well. Dragons can't use fine or smaller weapons at large sizes. However watch your PC's faces when you describe a Gargantuan Ancient red dragon uproot a tree and swat a small group of the king's calvary like a golfball. ( Got a laugh here. Even though it wasn't in the PC's favour. :D Eventually ruled something that damn big did something like 3d10 + str. Needless to say the spellslinger blew it to bits with a fireball sharpish. ^.^ ) - Dragons capable of shaping stone or the like ( I think copper. And a few others ) might not even bother starting a fight. They might just use their ability several times if given enough warning to hide their lair totally. Heck. A wall of stone in the right place might do it. - If outnumbered or outgunned, heck. It might even do the wise, diplomatic part they're famous for. They might round up some pals. Find the PC's, and raid THEIR HQ. ( 'Yes, okay, I was a wuss for getting my lair raided and my butt kicked.. But how long till they'll come and get YOURS!? Eh? EH!?' ) If you want to give PC's a tough time, group tactics by a small group of nigh-unstoppable dragons. Yeowch. - POLYMORPH! Except themselves. Into a sheep or something. ( 'I ain't seen no dragon gringo.' ) Or perhaps a Camel from space. ( If anyone gets that reference, give yourself a cookie. ) It's not running, it's.. Uh.. Tactical observation.. - If things get desperate enough, or the dragon is PO'ed enough, it'll reach into it's hoard right? Surprise! Guess who's been keeping a 50-charge wand of disintegration under his scaled ass for 500 years! Even worse, the dragon could have made it's OWN items. A white dragon with fireproof amulets anyone? - Thinking about resolving weaknesses, give them some fun spells you might not expect. Make them up! I'm sure more than one evil / good dragon has tried to pass itself off as another. Changing scale colours shouldn't be as hard as entire forms. ( 'Hey.. Hang on. The locals told us you were a RED dragon, not a GOLD one...' 'Sorry. Wrong cave.' ) Of course, as a last resort, a dragon can always do a kamikaze. If in a mountain, feh. Bring it down on them before they finish you off. Going down from spells launched below, eh. Earthquake. Bet they won't forget that in a hurry. Of course, my personal favourite from a old book, if you're about to be slain by the kings men, and you mass just under several thousand tons, pay the king a visit. Crash through his walls and make a mess. Remember. When you're a ancient beast, of nigh-godly power with all sorts of insanity under your wing, collateral damage is not a factor. Crazy laugh here