Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sacred Mesa 02-27-04, 10:51 AM	i have a house rule that i would like to post for your consideration... according to rule book dragons can cast spells from arcane and cleric list as they were sorcerers... my house rule its simple, i have tested for years and have work just fine... dragon have ONE caster class only when they can cast at all... for example a silver dragon choose CLERIC as his caster class then he cast spells freely from the cleric list only, have daily spell limits as a cleric but cast freely as sorcerers can... in this fashion there are CLERIC, SORCERERS, DRUIDS, RANGERS, BARDS and so on...
Malkavyyx 02-27-04, 11:04 AM	Doesn't that weaken dragons at all though? I think the idea sounds cool, but for the spell casters other than clerics & sorc's, their spell lists are not quite up to that level and I'd imagine without the other class abilities that make a druid a druid, just getting the spell list would underpower them a bit. Just my 2 coppers. -Malkavyyx
Derren S. 02-27-04, 11:06 AM	Sounds interesting. It makes dragons more different from each other but it also removes a bit of the reputations dragons have as innate magical beeing (becasue they are limited to one spell list) Imo I would up the caster level progression of dragons which loose flexibility here by 1. Also consider to also keep the spells/day the same and only change the list where the dragons can pick spells from. And be aware that this methode removes some PRC abilities from the draconomicon, but that is a very minor point. [edit] And Malkavyyx is right. Some spell lists aren't as powerfull as others so give dragons with druid spells a minor and dragons with bard spells a moderate bonus of whatever you seem fitting.
Sacred Mesa 02-28-04, 09:10 AM	i agree that Dragons in this fashion are less powerfull than normal dragon but that doesnt bother me because i dont think that they "very less powerfull" its a little sacrifice but alows a lot af rolplay. besides dragons are very powerfull indeed with this change in the caster type.
Malkavyyx 02-28-04, 01:06 PM	I certainly think it can provide a great deal of diversity. Not just throughtout different species, but between individual dragon variaties. I think it definitely is something worth trying, but I think if I did it, I'd simply change the two offered lists from sorc/cleric to either sorc/druid or cleric/druid as most bard/ranger/paladin spells are found in one of those 3 lists. interesting...
Aramas 02-29-04, 12:49 AM	Umm... actually I think that makes dragons more powerful. Casting as a cleric is better than as a sorceror because of the versatility gained all for sacrificing 1 spell per level per day. Dragons cast spells as a sorceror. Some of the draconic races can choose spells from the cleric list or from certain domains as known spells. They don't automatically know all cleric spells of a certain level like clerics do.
Sacred Mesa 02-29-04, 10:20 AM	i think you have a point. Cleric are very powerfull casters. but do u think that a "Paladin List Caster" would have the same power? i use this house rule to make diversity among Dragons, i most confessed that i havent exploid its full belic potential. Whats your opinion?
Malkavyyx 03-01-04, 10:30 AM	They don't automatically know all cleric spells of a certain level like clerics do While this is true, as it stands, metallic dragons may choose from the cleric list as well as the sorc list to choose which spells they know. I think what Sacred Mesa is trying to do (correct me if I'm wrong), is diversify dragons by giving them access to different spell lists. In response to your question, Sacred Mesa, I would say that the only way to even out the swapping of a sorc spell list for that of say, a paladin would be to give the dragon some other feature of the paladin to try to balance it. Though I think this is accomplished if you take class levels as a Paladin. The only issue with that, that I see is an ancient dragon, with 5 levels in Paladin and thusly, pretty inept at Paladin "stuff". But, I still haven't answered your question. I suggest that if you replace a spell list with a weaker one, give some, not all of the other abilities that the weaker spell caster has. In my own personal campaign, for what it's worth, I think I'll propose to my DM to exchange the cleric list for the druid list. Again, just my 2 coppers. Cheers!! -Malkavyyx
Sacred Mesa 03-01-04, 11:41 AM	over all, obviously cleric and sorcerer list are more powerfull than bards, rangers and paladins. this isnt true with Druids. to make my point a little more clear. my house refers to the follow: any dragon may choose one spell list and may choose spell from that list only. when a dragon chooses one spell list he becomes that type of spell caster when it comes to Dragon`s Caster Level increase by age. The dragon gain access to spells as that specific kind of caster do, so a cleric dragons gain access to upper level spell than sorcerer dragons. The only difference to normal spellcaster its that Dragons may cast any spell from the selected list without preparation. Paladin, Ranger and Bard dragons are less powerfull when it comes to spell casting but does that makes em really inferior other dragons of the same type? my answer is no.