Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ozzymandias 03-24-07, 01:42 PM	Can dragons acquire a dragon as a familiar?
Domriso 03-24-07, 02:29 PM	I don't see why not. In fact I would think that many dragons could benefit from having one of their own offspring as a familiar. Not only would the dragon have a familiar, the familiar would be able to learn from the parent as well as have an added bonus of enhancements due to the magical nature of being a familiar.
Ozzymandias 03-24-07, 06:44 PM	One more question, along those lines: Exactly how does a dragon familiar operate? As I understand a familiar, it gets hit dice (half the caster's hit points), skill points (from the hit dice), base attack and saves (of the caster's, or it's own from hit dice), etc. Does a dragon familiar get the same stuff? Or could someone direct me to the appropriate FAQ, as I'm sure this question has been asked already?
Fireclave 03-24-07, 07:09 PM	Familiars don't acquire hit dice. You treat their hit dice total as if it were equal to their master's caster class level only for effects that are related to HD (like immunity to the Sleep spell). Since they don't actually aquire HD, they don't increases in skill points, base attack, saves, and the like. They use their master's skill points, bab, and saves, or their own, whichever are higher. Click here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#familiars) for the rule reguarding familairs. And for specific rules and info on dragon familiars, check out the Draconomicon.
Borris 03-24-07, 07:44 PM	The Draconic Familiar feat from the Draconomicon might be just what your lookinfg for. assuming you meet a few prerequisites (such a a high enough caster level, and the ability to speak Draconic), you'll have the option to pick nearly any dragon wyrmling as your familiar. The Improved Familier feat from the Dungeon Master's Guide, can also allow you to get a pseudodragon as your familiar.
Derren S. 03-24-07, 08:14 PM	You need 3 things for a dragon familiar 1. A real sorcerer level to get the familiar class ability 2. A high enough caster level (comes with age) 3. The Dragon Familiar feat. Having a dragon taking one of its offspring as familiar is interesting. I can especially see lawful dragons doing this.
Domriso 03-24-07, 09:19 PM	The basics of the dragon familiar are that you have to be of a high enough level to aquire any of the particular types and you have to have the dragon familiar feat. The lowest level you have to be to get a dragon familiar is 7th, which you can then get a white wyrmling dragon. The rest are unavailable until higher levels: Dragon Kind Character Alignment Arcane Spellcaster Level White N, CN, CE 7th Black N, NE, CE 8th Brass NG, CG, CN 9th Green N, LN, NE 9th Copper CG, N, CN 10th Blue LN, LE, NE 10th Bronze LG, LN, N 11th Red CN, CE, NE 12th Silver LG, NG, N 12th Gold LG, NG, LN 14th Dragon Familiar Prerequisites: Cha 13, Speak Language (Draconic), Arcane Spellcaster Level 7th, able to summon a new familiar, compatible alignment Benefit: When choosing a new familiar you may select a wyrmling dragon. Master Class Level Natural Armor Increase Special 8th or lower +1 Alertness, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link 9th-12th +2 Deliver Touch Spells 13th-16th +3 Spell Resistance 17th-20th +4 Scry on Familiar That really is all of the mechanics to it. For hit points it says "Half the masters total, or the wyrmlings normal hit points, whichever is higher". For attacks, "Use the masters Base Attack bonus, or the familiars, whichever is better". And that's all I have to say.
runestar 03-24-07, 11:03 PM	Yep, this means the wyrmling familiar of a great wyrm gold dragon has the bab, hp and saves of a great wyrm gold dragon...:P Use PAO to transform it into a more combat-savvy form and ... :D
madd0g200 03-25-07, 11:24 AM	I'm sure it's possible but it just sounds wrong to me. It's like a human sorcerer with a human baby as his familiar. What happens when the familiar grows up? It feels like slavery and magically stunting its growth at the same time since it can't advance on its own.
Domriso 03-25-07, 11:40 AM	Actually, according to the rules in the draconomicon, as soon as the dragon ages to the point where it isn't a wyrmling anymore, it ceases to be a familiar. The Master doesn't get any penalties, except that it no longer has a familiar. So I think this would be a good way for young dragons to grow in power and experience even more quickly.
ank 03-29-07, 09:10 PM	Yes, a dragon can have a dragon familiar. It would need the requisite sorcerer levels, but it would be almost funny to see.