Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Amryll 10-23-04, 03:31 AM	young green dragon,fly speed 150+4 of what ever that dragon feat that increases speed by 30 and 10 for evry time after the first+wingbands of speed(modified boots of speed from the epic book)=fly speed 420. and 1680 with a run action, and 3280 with a running dive action. is this right? it seems a bit off physicaly, as at max thats nearly 400mph .any thoughts would be apreciated. seems fine rules wise...i think
Derren S. 10-23-04, 04:21 AM	A monk can run faster than that with the right feats. And why sould it be unfair= The dragon can fly fast and thats all that it can. Unless you are running away such a high fly speed does nothing.
Amryll 10-23-04, 04:34 AM	combine that with wingover and imp. flyby attack and its nigh impossible to hit the thing if at the end of its turn it is over 1000 feet away
Derren S. 10-23-04, 06:42 AM	combine that with wingover and imp. flyby attack and its nigh impossible to hit the thing if at the end of its turn it is over 1000 feet away Archers with far shot, readied actions,... There are many ways to hit a dragon using strafing tactics. And when you fight a dragon in the open you should have problems. Also you forget that you use an epic item. that is hardly common quipment.
Starmage21 10-23-04, 12:01 PM	I agree. The best place to fight a dragon is in it's lair, where its fly speed is going to be negated OR at least his strafing room is reduced.
Methos of Aundair 10-23-04, 01:02 PM	Note Amryll that players can do the same thing with their characters, and typically do (and I'm not talking about a fly speed). If players can min/max their character than why can't monsters? To be fair I see no reason why not to allow it. Besides, why have the archer use far shot when he could instead use the ready action, same as everyone else. I typically don't min/max the opponents unless he/she is a unique opponent (or named one). Typical encounters are exactly that, typical. Now if I had a named dragon that the players had been seeking out or enraged then yes min/max that dragon to your hearts content.
Judicator Shekar 10-23-04, 01:28 PM	Perhaps a dragon's fly speed is, indeed, "unfair". Unfortunately, however, the dragon in general has a series of fairness issues associated wit it. For example, the listed CR of a dragon is based upon that which is presented in the monster manual and the assumption that combat is taking place in the Dragon's lair. Should the dragon have access to various Savage Species and Draconomicon feats, it would become more powerful without an increase in challenge rating. Likewise, a dragon made using the Savage rules is substantially underpowered for its ECL due to the disparity between hit dice and level adjustment (the best savage classes are those with equivalent HD and LA). The fact is, when using a dragon, use CR as a very loose guideline. This means that, while fly speed may be unfair, there do exist many things that a party can do to defeat such a creature, based upon CR (a party of a level capable of killing the dragon should be able to negate its fly speed advantage with something else).
Amryll 10-23-04, 03:27 PM	it is kinda a char. for a a game i play online,and made it into dnd stats as a referance, dm said that was why i dont get a dragon in his games, cuz i go and make it invincible. course, i kknow lots of ways to beat it.he never uses stratigies,and the reason he wont let me play one is he cant think of things that arnt in black and white printed in some book.my thought was morefrom a biological side, since most small airplanes would tear apart at that speed.and its the same thing the dms epic monk did, only without the combat thoughts, he could just run fast.would that be powergaming? because i made it to do that one particular thing, even if i made a story up for it, how he got the item, and why he fights like that. but i m also a meatgamer for thinking past the dice anyway,with things liek"theres a horde of goblins, we are lvl3, how about we DONT charge into the center of their camp"
Judicator Shekar 10-23-04, 03:47 PM	My group had a similar problem with a DM who was bad in that way. We generally fixed it, as he no longer plays with us. Perhaps you could try to remove him/her from your group as this really sounds like a problem. Anyway, its good to see some fellow fans of the Gromph Baenre Avatar.
Derren S. 10-23-04, 04:49 PM	Besides, why have the archer use far shot when he could instead use the ready action, same as everyone else.. Ready action -> One shot Far Shot -> Full attack. And every dragon is named. They shouldn't be encountered as 0815 random encounter.
Methos of Aundair 10-23-04, 09:15 PM	Originally posted by Derren S. And every dragon is named. They shouldn't be encountered as 0815 random encounter. I’ve used a dragon as a random encounter before, but it was an intentional random encounter. It is a desert campaign and eventually they will have to deal with a specific brown dragon. As someone already noted the dragon CR’s in the MM are meant for those encounters where the dragon-type is known and the players are prepared for it. The brown dragon has varying abilities compared to that of normal dragons and I didn’t want the eventual encounter to be a TPK or total ambush. The “random” encounter I had dealt with a younger brown dragon that used only a couple of its abilities, namely the sandstorm ability. The players acted appropriately for a sandstorm and would have received a TPK had I run the dragon at full-strength and with the full intent of fighting them. The dragon stayed just long enough to reveal a couple of its abilities and then fled. Many of the players never got involved in the brief fight and were not informed it was an attack by a dragon until afterwards. It could be months of real time before they ever deal with the brown dragon I have planned for them, but when they get hit by a sudden sandstorm they won’t be caught completely off-guard and destroyed within rounds. I may have a freak sandstorm hit them at least once just to keep them on their toes and so they don’t expect every sandstorm to be followed by the attack of a brown dragon. I DM a game meant for fun, not to destroy the party. Sometimes if I feel a particular encounter may be extremely deadly to them I will find some way, or provide the means to, allow the players to learn of what to expect or some other tidbit of information. Sometimes, it is just as easy or fun to run a brief and weakened encounter with the creature.