Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lassiviren 02-23-06, 03:17 PM	I recently got the latest Dungeon magazine and in the Age of Worms adventure there is described a catapult ammunition created from distilled carrion crawler juice (a type of poison from the DMG). Basically it boosts the Fortitude save for said poison to DC 24. Since the adventure has this weapon being used primarily versus dragons the immediate question that came to mind is whether this particular poison affects dragons or not. I know dragons are immune to sleep and paralysis effects but under the SRD it describes paralysis effects as stemming from a magic source and paralysis from poison as an extraordinary effect. I am inclined to say that they aren't immune to the poison, no more than they would be immune to an uber-cyanide tablet. Perhaps my understanding of creature immunities is faulty though. The fact that they have a massive Fortitude save bonus makes this sort of nit picky anyway but still a legitimate question that the rules don't adequately cover IMO. Heres the appropriate passage from the SRD: Paralysis Some monsters and spells have the supernatural or spell-like ability to paralyze their victims, immobilizing them through magical means. (Paralysis from toxins is discussed in the Poison section below.) A paralyzed character cannot move, speak, or take any physical action. He is rooted to the spot, frozen and helpless. Not even friends can move his limbs. He may take purely mental actions, such as casting a spell with no components. Paralysis works on the body, and a character can usually resist it with a Fortitude saving throw (the DC is given in the creature’s description). Unlike hold person and similar effects, a paralysis effect does not allow a new save each round. A winged creature flying in the air at the time that it becomes paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A swimmer can’t swim and may drown. The bolded section makes me think that dragons immunity to paralysis effects doesn't supersede the fact that they aren't immune to poison. Anyway if any knowledgable folks of the boards care to chime in, I would love to hear pro's and con's.
RavinRay 02-23-06, 03:56 PM	The way I interpret it is that a dragon's extraordinary immunity to paralysis is something inherent in its biology and not something granted by magic. That it can't be suppressed in an anti-magic field has me thinking that, unless a paralyzing poison (or disease) specifically works on dragons, they will not be affected by stuff like carrion crawler juice. The Draconomicon says their elementally-derived metabolism gives them a powerful vitality.
runestar 02-23-06, 09:26 PM	The dragon is immune to paralysis, whatever the source, be it from a poison, spell etc. If the poison induces paralysis, the dragon is unaffected. If the poison has some other effect, the other effect may still have a chance of affecting the dragon(assuming you are able to penetrate its high fort save).
Lassiviren 02-24-06, 11:41 AM	Yeah I kinda came to the same conclusion, I think its more a flaw of using paralysis as the condition of a poison than anything else. Since the carrion crawler itself isn't listed as having poison there is no reason that a poison created from it's brain couldn't simply reduce a creatures Dex score to zero for 2d6 minutes. Thus mimicking the paralysis condition that it gets from its tentacles but remaining more in alignment with what poisons actually do.