Dragon Monster Class [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dragon Monster Class [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dielzen
11-08-07, 09:13 PM I wasn't sure whether to post this in Monster or Races, but eh...

I'm trying to make a Monster Class for the Fang Dragon (Draco). Ignoring the "age makes for advancement" issue, I hit on a snag.

On MM page 291, Table 4-2 lists the statistical modifiers for changing sizes due to advancement. However, the Fang Dragon stat blocks don't reflect these changes. The most noticable disparity is in the CON score, as I find it hard to believe a Dragon would get a CON penalty for changing sizes, yet the Fang Dragon's CON score changes are much smaller than Table 4-2 would indicate.

If anyone could give me some advice, I would appreciate it. :)
SpudMaster
11-08-07, 09:31 PM Are you talking about advancing a Dragon as a player charecter? (iv run across the same issue)
SpudMaster
11-08-07, 09:32 PM Are you talking about advancing a Dragon as a player charecter? (iv run across the same issue)
SpudMaster
11-08-07, 09:32 PM Are you talking about advancing a Dragon as a player charecter? (iv run across the same issue)
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi
11-08-07, 09:40 PM Smaller, but still positive, right? (Actually, I know I'm right. I have Draconimicon. I bought it before I knew what D&D actually was. Or before I even noticed the huge Dungeons & Dragons logo on the front. That's what a natural 1 on a spot check looks like). That's not a penalty to constitution. It's still a bonus. Anyway, I can only recommend that you pick a certain age category to stat up as a monster class (Spud Master, I guess you've never heard of these before. It's a way to gradually get the dragon racial abilities as you "level up" as a dragon. Allows you to gradually get the LA and regular class levels at the same time). Because honestly, it takes a long time to advance in age categories, so don't build it into the racial class. Any idea which age category you want to stat up?
SpudMaster
11-08-07, 10:22 PM (Spud Master, I guess you've never heard of these before. It's a way to gradually get the dragon racial abilities as you "level up" as a dragon. Allows you to gradually get the LA and regular class levels at the same time). Because honestly, it takes a long time to advance in age categories, so don't build it into the racial class. Any idea which age category you want to stat up?

even after reading that I am still not sure. So what? I have actually started in a game already, ( came in at 15, the other pc's are a bit higher but i'm suppose to "catch up quick") I made up a silver dragon he's 10 years old 11 HD, with decent saves and attack bonus at this level. But my issue is whats next, I already have gained 1 level so far, and I have it sitting in "escro" so when the time comes, and the DM is pretty good at keeping track of time so time is progressing but we talked about it at the end of the last session. And the way the humans in the party age, We cant realy sit around and wait for the dragon to get older.

Is there some sort of way to level in something like Dragon. I'd like to become a hidecarved dragon but im 5 will and and i think 10 natural armor, Now I have 4 feats which after the dm discussion he would be fine with me retraiing if I came up with a story reason So i can take the needed Iron will and I see a great need for power attack, and multiattack / imp multi attack.. but I could use some suggestions.

largely on where to take this guy? what do you level a dragon in? I was thinkin sorc to get a jump start in on inate sorc ability?
Dielzen
11-08-07, 11:00 PM I'm allowing my player to advance age categories through XP (it's a gestalt campign, so it's already high-powered). When changing sizes due to age, there should be a +2str, -2dex, +4con (at most sizes) yet in most cases the Dragon only goes up 2 CON.
SpudMaster
11-08-07, 11:21 PM 1st of all, sorry for the mass posting I am seeing on the part of myself. not sure why that happend.

Im pretty posotive that the aging by xp wouldnt fly with the dm, n he's pretty good at bending if you rp it right.

I was thinking of picking up te half-dragon paragon or adapting a paragon class for dragons ( i drafted one up for his aproval this next weekend)
Dielzen
11-08-07, 11:28 PM I am the DM, so end the speculation =p

I'm just hoping someone can clear up the issue of Table 4-2 and the Fang Dragon's stats, that's all.
strenoth
11-10-07, 12:56 PM Size-changing stats are NOT reflected in a dragon's stats. the size changing rule is for if your size change does not have a listed set of stat changes. Dragons already have theirs. Just look at the Con & STR bonus they got over the course of the entire previous size category, I bet it's pretty signifigant. they don't get the DEX penalty either, they stay at a racial adjustment of +0 (10 for NPCs)
Ace_of_time
11-10-07, 10:38 PM All size mods for increase or decreasing in size on a dragon are added in to there stats already. you do not need to add them in twice. Now there are some dragons that seem to have odd str and other at tiny size from what they should but that has already been add into they racial adj for the stats in the book. Even if you are making you own dragon as a PC DON"T ADD IN SIZE MODS. Just use the stats in the books and add your points from leveling can be ignored if you just say you want to keep your dex the same no matter the size size since dragons add this point to dex to keep it at 10.
Ace_of_time
11-10-07, 11:17 PM I couldn't sleep with this on my mind so here you go. My wife and I run dragon PCs about 1in4 PC and we are currently run this dragon.

If you are rolling / using points buy

Racial adj are +2 con and wis: -2 int and cha
( I don't like to give adj at the start above +2 so if it had +4 on something it would have gained the other +2 on LA levels.)

This is one of the easiest dragon classes. You get a LA level every other level so that is 2, 4, 6. I give the abilities on LA level too so you would start with the imp damage and the con drain. 2 level would get sound imitation, 4th would get trip, and detect magic and read magic on 6th. Then you would gain a HD level every level until 9th and last one at 13th.

Now remember your tiny so stick with feat like fly by attack untill you get a normal reach and don't bother with claws until then. We ruled that Imp NA doesn't stack with his/her ability but I don't know that for sure.

Note: DO NOT USE THE BREATH WEAPON DC IN THE BOOK> it is 10 + 1/2 HD + con mod.

NOTE 2: SI DC is 10 +1/2 HD+ cha mod I believe. It is suposed to be the same as the fear DC but he doesn't have one yet but does have the sound which needs a DC so the fear DC is figured the same way. You can use it instead of the book when it gains that ability too.
Evilholyguy
11-25-07, 09:52 AM the rules for them are found in the Dragon magazine #320

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dielzen 11-08-07, 09:13 PM	I wasn't sure whether to post this in Monster or Races, but eh... I'm trying to make a Monster Class for the Fang Dragon (Draco). Ignoring the "age makes for advancement" issue, I hit on a snag. On MM page 291, Table 4-2 lists the statistical modifiers for changing sizes due to advancement. However, the Fang Dragon stat blocks don't reflect these changes. The most noticable disparity is in the CON score, as I find it hard to believe a Dragon would get a CON penalty for changing sizes, yet the Fang Dragon's CON score changes are much smaller than Table 4-2 would indicate. If anyone could give me some advice, I would appreciate it. :)
SpudMaster 11-08-07, 09:31 PM	Are you talking about advancing a Dragon as a player charecter? (iv run across the same issue)
SpudMaster 11-08-07, 09:32 PM	Are you talking about advancing a Dragon as a player charecter? (iv run across the same issue)
SpudMaster 11-08-07, 09:32 PM	Are you talking about advancing a Dragon as a player charecter? (iv run across the same issue)
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 11-08-07, 09:40 PM	Smaller, but still positive, right? (Actually, I know I'm right. I have Draconimicon. I bought it before I knew what D&D actually was. Or before I even noticed the huge Dungeons & Dragons logo on the front. That's what a natural 1 on a spot check looks like). That's not a penalty to constitution. It's still a bonus. Anyway, I can only recommend that you pick a certain age category to stat up as a monster class (Spud Master, I guess you've never heard of these before. It's a way to gradually get the dragon racial abilities as you "level up" as a dragon. Allows you to gradually get the LA and regular class levels at the same time). Because honestly, it takes a long time to advance in age categories, so don't build it into the racial class. Any idea which age category you want to stat up?
SpudMaster 11-08-07, 10:22 PM	(Spud Master, I guess you've never heard of these before. It's a way to gradually get the dragon racial abilities as you "level up" as a dragon. Allows you to gradually get the LA and regular class levels at the same time). Because honestly, it takes a long time to advance in age categories, so don't build it into the racial class. Any idea which age category you want to stat up? even after reading that I am still not sure. So what? I have actually started in a game already, ( came in at 15, the other pc's are a bit higher but i'm suppose to "catch up quick") I made up a silver dragon he's 10 years old 11 HD, with decent saves and attack bonus at this level. But my issue is whats next, I already have gained 1 level so far, and I have it sitting in "escro" so when the time comes, and the DM is pretty good at keeping track of time so time is progressing but we talked about it at the end of the last session. And the way the humans in the party age, We cant realy sit around and wait for the dragon to get older. Is there some sort of way to level in something like Dragon. I'd like to become a hidecarved dragon but im 5 will and and i think 10 natural armor, Now I have 4 feats which after the dm discussion he would be fine with me retraiing if I came up with a story reason So i can take the needed Iron will and I see a great need for power attack, and multiattack / imp multi attack.. but I could use some suggestions. largely on where to take this guy? what do you level a dragon in? I was thinkin sorc to get a jump start in on inate sorc ability?
Dielzen 11-08-07, 11:00 PM	I'm allowing my player to advance age categories through XP (it's a gestalt campign, so it's already high-powered). When changing sizes due to age, there should be a +2str, -2dex, +4con (at most sizes) yet in most cases the Dragon only goes up 2 CON.
SpudMaster 11-08-07, 11:21 PM	1st of all, sorry for the mass posting I am seeing on the part of myself. not sure why that happend. Im pretty posotive that the aging by xp wouldnt fly with the dm, n he's pretty good at bending if you rp it right. I was thinking of picking up te half-dragon paragon or adapting a paragon class for dragons ( i drafted one up for his aproval this next weekend)
Dielzen 11-08-07, 11:28 PM	I am the DM, so end the speculation =p I'm just hoping someone can clear up the issue of Table 4-2 and the Fang Dragon's stats, that's all.
strenoth 11-10-07, 12:56 PM	Size-changing stats are NOT reflected in a dragon's stats. the size changing rule is for if your size change does not have a listed set of stat changes. Dragons already have theirs. Just look at the Con & STR bonus they got over the course of the entire previous size category, I bet it's pretty signifigant. they don't get the DEX penalty either, they stay at a racial adjustment of +0 (10 for NPCs)
Ace_of_time 11-10-07, 10:38 PM	All size mods for increase or decreasing in size on a dragon are added in to there stats already. you do not need to add them in twice. Now there are some dragons that seem to have odd str and other at tiny size from what they should but that has already been add into they racial adj for the stats in the book. Even if you are making you own dragon as a PC DON"T ADD IN SIZE MODS. Just use the stats in the books and add your points from leveling can be ignored if you just say you want to keep your dex the same no matter the size size since dragons add this point to dex to keep it at 10.
Ace_of_time 11-10-07, 11:17 PM	I couldn't sleep with this on my mind so here you go. My wife and I run dragon PCs about 1in4 PC and we are currently run this dragon. If you are rolling / using points buy Racial adj are +2 con and wis: -2 int and cha ( I don't like to give adj at the start above +2 so if it had +4 on something it would have gained the other +2 on LA levels.) This is one of the easiest dragon classes. You get a LA level every other level so that is 2, 4, 6. I give the abilities on LA level too so you would start with the imp damage and the con drain. 2 level would get sound imitation, 4th would get trip, and detect magic and read magic on 6th. Then you would gain a HD level every level until 9th and last one at 13th. Now remember your tiny so stick with feat like fly by attack untill you get a normal reach and don't bother with claws until then. We ruled that Imp NA doesn't stack with his/her ability but I don't know that for sure. Note: DO NOT USE THE BREATH WEAPON DC IN THE BOOK> it is 10 + 1/2 HD + con mod. NOTE 2: SI DC is 10 +1/2 HD+ cha mod I believe. It is suposed to be the same as the fear DC but he doesn't have one yet but does have the sound which needs a DC so the fear DC is figured the same way. You can use it instead of the book when it gains that ability too.
Evilholyguy 11-25-07, 09:52 AM	the rules for them are found in the Dragon magazine #320