Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Quintessence 07-19-04, 02:21 PM	Since, in this edition of the game, it's now possible to play a dragon PC in a regular campaign (as compared to the dragon-exclusive Coucil of Wyrms campaign setting) there are certainly more people playing dragons than ever before. The means by which we can portray such creatures have only increased since 3rd edition was launched. At first we had the Half-dragon template and then the option of becoming a Dragon Disciple or a Dragonkith. Then the means to play a full fledged dragon appeared with the release of Savage Species, followed by expanded rules in the Draconomicon. Now Dragon magazine has published "official" rules Dragon PCs suitable for play as 1st level PCs. Even before these options though, creative players and DMs were devising their own rules for embodying dragons. Even so, playing a dragon only appeals to a certain type of player (who likewise must have a DM willing to let her players role-play such creatures). It remains a challenge, playing in campaign settings with feats, skills, spells, equipment and magic items designed for the more common PHB humanoid PC races. Trying to fit in and find a role to fullfil in an adventuring party can likewise be a challenge in and of itself. In spite of the pitfalls though, some players are still willing to give it a try. I'm one of these people. I have a particular interest in keeping tabs on the Draconomicon board because I'm currently playing a Dragon in a bi-monthly game. What I've always found lacking though was a thread by which those who are sharing similar experiences could identify each other and trade advice. So I decided to give it a shot and start this thread myself. I'd invite those who play dragon PCs or Dragon themed PCs to identify themselves and post details about their characters: which system (Draconomicon, Savage Species, Dragon Magazine or Home-brewed) they used to build the character, what classes the character posesses, which skills, feats and equipment they've selected. Perhaps conveying some information such as background detail, clever strategies, campaign specific details and the PC's role in the party.
Quintessence 07-19-04, 02:24 PM	I was always intrigued by the Council of Wyrms setting but could never convince anyone to play it as a campaign. I also liked the idea of the dragon disciple when T&B was published but never quite got around to playing one. Finally when my DM said he was preparing a new FR game I pitched the idea of playing a full-fledged dragon PC. I started by creating a Savage Species type class for a Gold Dragon Hatchling. I purposefully designed it to be weak at low levels so as to reassure my DM and fellow players that a Dragon PC wouldn't be munchkin. It seemed to work well and I even played the character until fourth level when Dragon magazine #320 came out. Though I had some issues with the magazine version my group generally thought it would be better for me to play the "official" gold dragon class. The only change I asked to make for the class was to switch the 4th level alternate shape ability with the 6th level 100 ft. Flying speed. I just couldn't accept that a dragon could learn to fly as a bird before it learned to fly with it's own forms wings. It also seemed odd to me that a dragon in bear form would be able to make multiple attacks before it gained the ability to use its own dragon form's claws and teeth. My dragon, Ambrus, is now a 5th level gold dragon. He's only 6 months old, having spent his first three months as the property of an evil alchemist who bought and hatched his egg, with the intention of using him as a sacrifice in some dark ritual. The party rescued him and he's been following them since, trying to learn about where he came from and his family while adventuring. His main source of info is a zoological treaty on dragons he claimed from the alchemist's shop. All the characters were built with a 32 point buy. So far the character's stats are: Str 18 Dex 12 Con 18 Int 14 Wis 12 Chr 12 I've been mostly maxing out (so 8) ranks in the following skills: Diplomacy (he's being tutored by the party rogue to be polite) Intimidate (he's a dragon...) Knowledge, Arcana (which he learnt from being raised in an alchemist's shop) Sense Motive (he learnt not to trust the alchemist when told "this won't hurt" Search, Spot and Listen (not much to do in a cage but watch and listen) Use Magic Device (again, gained from watching the alchemist) For feats, I selected: • Dreadful Wrath (a FR regional feat and a good substitute for a young dragon's lack of frightful presence) • Combat Expertise (to help compensate for my low AC) • Improved Trip (I thought this could be a cool way to mimic an older dragon's tail sweep attack while taking advantage of a dragon's high strength and quadruped bonus against being triped in turn) Equipment: • Mithral Chain Shirt Barding • Masterwork Dastana (from Oriental Adventures) • Masterwork Chahar-Aina (likewise from Oriental Adventures) • Amulet of Natural Armor +2 • Ring of Feather Falling This combination of armor provides the best armor bonus I could find without my dragon suffering any armor check penalties (which would be bad since dragons aren't proficient in any type of armor). The ring I bought as insurance against falling to my death if I were disabled or held while flying. Our party found the amulet in a tomb; it happens to be made out of an old gold dragon scale. I'm curently trying to find out who it belonged to.
guardiandashi 07-19-04, 05:17 PM	I have a couple different chars but the one I keep wanting to play and have trouble doing so is a char that STARTED as a councel of wyrms char gold dragon. and got remade into a 3.0 edition when savage species came out. currently the char is a very young gold dragon? 17 years old and 14 dragon HD, LA 6, and ftr3, cleric 3. so all togather I am lvl 26 altho I am looking into the thing that allows you to "buy off" a little of your LA. The biggest problem is I am having touble playing the char as my gm's kep only running 1-2 games where I can play that char, and then starting a new 1st level campaign every month or so. The char managed to get her hands(claws) on a couple of the books that boost stats +5 and thus raised int and con by 5 points ea. so my chars stats look like this: str 31/33 (+2 str item) dex 17 con 29 int 29 wis 21 cha 16 I rolled pretty well all things considered. saves fort 25 ref 15 will 19 melee 28 ranged 22 (BAB 19) equipment: 2X longsword +5 33/28/23/18 1D8 +5 claws +5 (adds a + 5 attack bonus to claw attacks in dragon form and adds an additional Die of damage (based on current claw damage die) skills are all over the place but highest skill is 32, and lowest is 5 (move silently, and sense motive) most skills are around 22 or 10-15ish feats are: alertness ambidexterity (may need to change) cleave Power attack weapon focus claw two weapon fighting weapon focus long sword multiattack improved multiattack and hover
CrimsonPhoenix 07-20-04, 09:49 PM	Double Post.... :( Oh well, I'll use this to discuss a strategy I've thought up. Tired of being the poor dragon who always sits and watches the party's wizard win the battle with a single spell or the party's fighter do about 1000x the damage you can? Now you can win the battle with a single standard (or free with quicken breath) action. Play a Brass or Silver dragon with maxed out Constitution (for breath DC), along with other stats needed for normal combat (don't sacrifice any of the normal stuff). Get Quicken Breath and Heighten Breath and use the alternate breath weapon at the beginning of each battle. EX: 14th level brass dragon = 30ft cone DC 27 Will save or fall asleep and be subsequently killed (or bypassed)....all as a free action. Now you can laugh at the wizard who's halfway through launching his fireball or mass suggestion when the battle is suddenly over. Rather simple, but very effective nonetheless. If you play brass and get a few Sorc levels on top of the dragon HD you can also empower your breath with increasingly useful breath spells...which are quite fun (even if not very effective).
CrimsonPhoenix 07-20-04, 09:49 PM	Finally....I've been looking for a thread like this for a long time. Anyway, my char: I've been playing a gold wyrmling (4 years old) who is currently level 14 w/ 10 HD. He took the elven name Araemil from the town he lived near (with his parents). Araemil joined the party after they stopped a group of evil dragonslayers from killing his parents. (It turned out that the dragonslayers were far too weak to have done any harm to his parents, but the party got there first and Araemil was impressed with their fighting ability). On top of that, he desired more than ever to travel around the world and learn whatever he could, something that was denied him because of the danger of someone finding out his true nature. Once his parents saw that the party was willing to take him along and help protect him, they let him go. He isn't too interested in taking up a class off of the other party members, mostly because he thinks they are too focused on a single thing. He would rather allow his natural fighting ability to suffice for now while putting his mind to other things, such as magic items. He likes to tinker with any that he can get his hands on before selling it for as much as possible. He also has a great interest in seafaring. Building a bigger, more stable, and preferably faster ship is his greatest goal, and he has recently accomplished it with the construction of an enormous ship powered by gnomish technology and constructed of a mixture of wood and iron. The ship has been in combat twice, something which he tries to avoid for the most part. The victories were swift and complete, but he can't help but wonder if the men that died deserved their fate. Anyway, on to the good stuff (items) Necklace of Mighty Fists +3 (given to him by the party's monk, who had recently started using monk weapons instead) Bracers of Armor +6 (cheaper than buying mithral armor with a decent enhancement bonus, and much easier to take on and off) Gloves of Dex +4 (useful for AC and ranged attacks in human or elf form) +1 Flaming Rapier (used in alternate form) Flaming Mighty Composite Longbow (+4) (used in alternate form) Belt of Giant Strength +6 (used in both forms, he wears it around his leg in dragon form) Folding Boat (one can never have too many boats...hmm....) Heward's Handy Haversack (seriously...everyone should buy one...holds all that crap so easily, and straps to your back!) Quiver of Ehlonna (sp?) (stores a couple of staffs and a rod along with bow/ammo) Staffs: Araemil carries two staves, both of which are custom designed for him by a friend of his parents in the elven settlement nearby. The wizard actually researched a new spell and imbued one of these staffs with it. The spell is a force effect identical to that of the Ring of the Ram, except that it targets a 30ft cone. He uses this in either form when needed, often at the beginning of combat to help soften up foes (followed by a quickened breath). It also comes in handy when a cliff is near, and it was funny when he ended the battle with two uses of this. The other staff is a Staff of Fire. The rod is an immovable rod which he uses to clog doorways or whatever other general use he can think up for it. He is working to buy a 2nd one to do the whole ladder thing, etc. ***EDIT*** I forgot to say what system I use. I started off using the Draconomicon but my DM let me switch to the Dragon Mag version, so the between-age-catagory levels weren't so underpowered. I've since come up with a new system which is a mixture of the two. Basically, you use the draconomicon system, except every time you get a new dragon level, consult the Dragon Mag (or homebrew class) and add the abilities of the corresponding HD from it. This smooths out the Draconomicon system and keeps it from being too heavy on the new age catagory levels and too light on the in-betweens. If you need me to clarify, just post it and I'll reply shortly.
obrysii 07-22-04, 11:33 AM	You could also play a Pyroclastic wyrmling with maxed out con to take advantage of it's line of disinigration. In our evil campaign, my character will eventually be turned into one, resulting with my character able to do a DC 62 fort save or disinigration...
Gilean 07-22-04, 12:39 PM	I let my player(s) use gold dragon stats for all dragons (sadly only plays a dragon). Compared to gold, all core dragons are underpowered and wouldn't be used. We use savage species system, BTW.
Selkie_Guardian 07-24-04, 03:51 AM	I'm Playing a Gestalt Half Celectial Blad Dragon, Barbarian 10, Champion of Gwynahwyer 10, with a major celectial bloodline.
CrimsonPhoenix 07-24-04, 10:33 PM	I thought I'd post here about dragon PCs in Eberron. This campaign setting is great for those who want to play dragons, since you can now play chromatics without much difficulty (no more waiting for evil campaigns :)). The Chamber does not count all dragons on the continent among its members, and does not care much if a non-involved dragon were to reveal himself, so the whole secretive thing isn't much of a problem. On top of that, dragons are not as greedy and vain. They are more like humanoids in mindset and therefore much easier to fit into things without the situation seeming too odd. Finally, since dragons like to stay disguised and usually develope magical means to do so (especially Chamber members, but also most others), it wouldn't be hard to convince your DM to allow you to get your hands on a Ring of Alternate Form or something of the sort, using the magic item creation rules from the DMG. Other than that, the campaign setting is great. Playing a dragon in this type of detailed setting can allow a player who wants to to be able to develope his/her character far beyond most other campaign settings. I've enjoyed the half-elf ranger I'm currently playing quite a bit (he's a Lyrandar skyship pilot and my DM let me have one since it really doesn't do anything but allow us to get around and have lots of flavor). We are currently level 10. Probably around 14 I'm going to switch to a bronze or silver dragon. Bronze sounds more fun, but I'd have to pay for an Alternate Form item...hmmm...the possibilities. My main reason for posting this is that there are a lot of people who say playing a dragon here is impossible because of their "reclusive nature". I'm not trying to say they are wrong or stupid, just that what they say may not encompass the whole situation. I may also post this later in its own thread, probably on the Eberron forums.
Quintessence 07-26-04, 12:56 PM	I'm happy to see some interest in the thread. How about a topic of discussion? Something we've all had to address either one way or the other in our respective campaigns: is your dragon PC open about his true nature with the humanoids of the campaign setting or does he take pains to keep his existence (or true identity) a secret? Most low level dragon PCs don't have access to polymorphing or alternate forms with which to pass unoticed when in cities. Does your party help hide you from the prying eyes of NPCs or do you proudly walk through the city streets of your campaign setting? Are you an accepted member of society or a pariah? If you do hide, what do you do when your fellow party members go socialize in a city environement? How do NPCs react to you in general when you meet? Does being a metallic or a chromatic affect peoples' reaction? My gold hatchling has, for the most part been kept a secret by his owner and then by the party who rescued him. So far he's been introduced to some trusted NPCs and their reactions have usually been favorable, if somewhat guarded. Word of his existence did reach some evil NPCs who've tried (and failed so far) to capture and enslave him again. Still, the attempts have worried him and so he's growing distrustful of strangers. His superior senses usually allow him to notice humanoids before they see him, giving him enough warning to hide himself. He usually stays hidden in a cart or tent when the rest of the PCs are interacting with NPCs (a less than ideal role-playing circumstance IMHO). Some PCs are anxious for him to learn to use his inherent alternate-form ability so that he can join in. They've actually been making my dragon feel insecure and inadequate over the issue: "Well, gold dragons are supposed to be able to shapechange as soon as they hatch! Why can't you?" His usual response is to ask timidly: "how is it done? What muscle do I flex to change shape?". When he wants some equipment purchased, my dragon usually asks another PC to buy it for him. Last session though, a fellow PC brought a dwarven smith to measure my dragon for a custom suit of barding.
CrimsonPhoenix 07-26-04, 05:31 PM	My character has mostly been open about his identity. The country we are helping is friendly to dragons because they have never seen any except the friendly bronzes that live on their coastal region. When travelling he disguises himself (with alternate form) until he knows those he meets are not going to attempt to harm him (or are too weak to do so successfully). He doesn't like using alternate form for long periods at a time...it makes him feel weak and vulnerable. Of course, all of our ship's (200+) crewmembers know his true identity openly and are quite comfortable having him around. A lot of the mainland has been taken over by a wizard's guild (long story...wont try to explain) that is particularly unfriendly to us, since we killed two of their higher ranked members a while back when they attempted to kill my character. Now we have decided to use our ship as a sort of base of operations at sea where it's harder to track us. The wizards of this guild are perhaps the only people he wont share his identity with openly, but many of them are beginning to learn how to see through alternate forms, and there is a bounty on all my previous alternate forms (and true form) in every land except the small country mentioned above, so lately I've been having to choose a new form every time. The guild has seemingly convinced most of the world that we are horribly dangerous evil outlaws, so sometimes it can be hard to show them otherwise before they attempt to turn us in.
Myzterio 07-29-04, 05:44 PM	My DM has allowed us (the soon-to-be party) to take higher level characters for our second campaign. With an ECL of 8 allowed and having been warned of needing it, I have decided to make a Steel Dragon, a race I just found in the Monster Mayhem of the site: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20040328a The point is, I do not know how to properly convert a Steel Dragon to a PC. I'd have to take a 'Very young' steel dragon with what level? And do I adjust any of the abilities or other statistics involved? What would the ECL be? I reckon a Wyrmling would have 4 Magical Beast levels with 4HD (d12), but what if it'd become a 'very young' steel dragon? Would this depend on the level of the character, the HD the character has or just time? If anyone could fill me in on how to use a race like this to make a PC, please do.
obrysii 07-29-04, 06:11 PM	I would say it has about a +3 LA. You'd add it's 4 dragon ((NOT magical beast!!)) HD + 3 LA + 1 class level to get your starting level. Which would be ECL 7. So for your ECL 8 campaign, you could start with two class levels. It might have a higher LA than +3, though. Or it might have lower. I don't know for sure.
guardiandashi 07-29-04, 09:31 PM	the la is touchy but looking at it you are definately looking at 2-3 (mabie 4) as a wyrmling due to the polymorph self, and the sorc levels, ofcourse it does NOT have unbalanced stats and is pretty gimpy in other ways. I would definately look at the copper/bronze and white dragons to see how they compare @ wyrmling.
CrimsonPhoenix 07-29-04, 11:32 PM	Wyrmling LA +3 Very Young LA +3 (if no new abilities gained on the special ability column), or +4 (if anything significant gets added, not something dumb like "speak with animals" as bronze gets). LA will only increase with abilities that are deserving. So since your dragon starts out with most all of his abilities, he shouldn't get an increased LA unless something important is added. Compare the new ability to a +5 Natural Armor increase...that is worth +1 LA.
Gastogh 08-01-04, 06:34 AM	I've played a dragon in three games plus am playing one currently (Gilean here being the DM, I think (pöö)). I'll tell you about the best one: Animagynth, a Bronze dragon. The system is Savage Species-y, as far as I know. EXP factor in Monster Design and DMing = 0. So far Animagynth had four levels in Dragon and one in Druid. Enthusiastic little bugger, she was. I don't have the char sheet at the moment, but she'd Survival, Knowledge-nature, Spot and Listen maxed out, plus the feats Multiattack and Recover breath. We hadn't amassed a whole lot of equipment; to be frank, I had a Ring o' Protection +1 (and that, if I recall, was given as a payment to a sprite or something for a favor) and my buddy -a Radiant dragon- had something to increase his claw damage, and that was it. I had a nice beginning for a hoard going, though. The total value wasn't that high, but it was really well done (if I do say so myself) considering that in our games rats don't drop full plates when they die. I had myself some pearls, gold, interesting texts and other valuables that I don't remember right now. Animagynth was peaceful almost to the point of being pacifistic, but without hesitation to kill out of mercy -we did that at a point. My Celestial Dragon friend was about to make this crazed kobold drink his own bottle of poison. We had no real character history going. None in our group can think of those, so the campaign was made so that none were required. Besides, I prefer to play personality, not history. (Coincidently, all my characters like debating ethics.) Also, with two players (three originally, but the third refused to play after being left behind a level) I'm loathe to call our group a 'party'. Besides, we were dragons. Y' know, dragons!1 Independent creatures that cooperate and socialize at best don't form parties. While I wouldn't go so far as to call this a "clever strategy", it was something of an accomplishment... In other words, How to Kill Something With Unovercome-able DR and Fast Healing: I'll skip the background story. We were fighting a jovoc, a nasty little bugger from MM2. (We were level 4 or 5 here, too, and anyone who's played a dragon knows the true extent of the power of their natural weapons at that level. Heck, our claws' reach was 0 and my maximum damage 7). It had DR, it had Fast Healing, it had that oh-so-annoying Aura of its and we weren't going to win it by any conventional means (there were attempts...). So, long story short, I got the idea of having Radiant grapple and pin him while I go and get some rocks and sand to stuff down his throat, in an attempt to suffocate him. We couldn't risk biting him at that point anymore, so desperation manages. Surprisingly enough, when I did stuff those rocks down his throat, he didn't being to suffocate. He vomited them out of his nose. (Just take that image and savor it. :D) So we had fought and wrestled for over twenty rounds at this point, he was pinned and nauseous, and the DM granted us coup de graces. The jovoc did die at that. I had exactly 2 hp left at the end. Serious XP, though, so no complaints. I'm liking this thread. Participate, people.
Quintessence 08-01-04, 08:44 AM	I just had to mention this. During one point of our session last night, a fellow PC surprised my hatchling with a gift for his sixth month birthday: a five foot long plush dragon "doll" made of yellow died linen and stuffed with flax seeds that they commissioned from a local seamstress. She decided that it was sad that my character had never had a toy to play with at his age. The party bard even used ventriloquism and mage hand to make it talk and tell me stories. My character named it 'Dracoflax'. It was so touching. :cloud9:
Minkx 08-14-04, 10:55 PM	Hi everyone, I am creating a world where dragons are a constant and major political force the only deities are draconic and just about everything in the draconomicon is up for grabs. The pc's will not be draconic though half dragon and other such things are allowed but after several levels players will get a second character which will be a true dragon to fight side by side with their original pc's. I am looking for people who are interested in playing such a campaign but also someone who could help me flesh out the world i have created. Please let me know if your interested. Im me at MLNKX and you can also post replies to this. Thanks