Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wargamer 04-06-06, 07:30 AM	I can't be the only one who finds the concept of Dragons stockpiling mountains of Gold they never intend to use... so I took to reading Slaine for inspiration! Dragon Bones, particularly the skull, are made of Diamond. That alone is all you need. Think about how much a Diamond the size of a Dragon's skull would be worth, combine it with the value of Dragonhide and perhaps some items that belonged to the last idiot who thought he could take on a 60' fire-breathing lizard, and I'd say the Treasure side of the encounter is taken care of. And best of all... no more stupidly pointless piles of gold!
obrysii 04-06-06, 09:05 AM	please note that a "horde" is a group of people. And a lot of adventurers wouldn't have too much problem with a 60-inch fire breathing lizard. Now, a 60-foot fire breathing dragon, that's another story.
Wargamer 04-06-06, 09:36 AM	So aside from being ****-retentive with regards to my editing, do you have anything worthwhile to contribute? :rolleyes:
Neverwrong 04-06-06, 09:43 AM	Draconomicon. Read it.
obrysii 04-06-06, 09:44 AM	Diamond is extremely rare and hard to come by. I'd like to see exactly how the dragon managed to acquire such a large amount of cut diamonds. Have you any idea how many carots a dragon's skull sized amont of diamond would be? Or how much that'd be worth? This is one of the silliest ideas I've seen in a long time. Unless you intend to give the group millions of gold, it's a pointless endeavor.
Wargamer 04-06-06, 09:49 AM	Diamond is extremely rare and hard to come by. I'd like to see exactly how the dragon managed to acquire such a large amount of cut diamonds. Have you any idea how many carots a dragon's skull sized amont of diamond would be? Or how much that'd be worth? This is one of the silliest ideas I've seen in a long time. Unless you intend to give the group millions of gold, it's a pointless endeavor. Why would it need to "get" diamond? You don't "get" bone... it grows naturally. And no, I don't know how much that much diamond would be worth. However, that's where DM tweaking comes in... if we say, for the sake of argument, that the average Dragon Hoard is worth 40K, then using my method a Diamond Dragon-skull would be about 30K, and the last 10K would be from Dragon Hide, claws and random treasures dotted around the dungeon.
Derren S. 04-06-06, 09:56 AM	I think he meant that instead that dragons hoard (for them) useless coin their bones are naturally made out of diamond and replace the hoard as reward for dragon slayers. Imo diamond as bones would be extremly stupid, Diamond is just too brittle for bones, not to mention that is is not organic and therefor can't heal (or grow). That means that one heavy blow would likely mean the death of the dragon as its very likely that the bone will shatter and won't regrow. That and people who kill a adult or older dragon could possibly gather so much diamond that they are more wealthy then epic characters (some million gp at least).
Priest_of_Shaundakul 04-06-06, 09:56 AM	And best of all... no more stupidly pointless piles of gold! You are not a dragon. Dragon's throught processess and motivations are not always apparent to us, nor are a lot of what they do...so no, it's not "pointless", it's how dragons are :rolleyes:
Radijs 04-06-06, 10:19 AM	Ask a dragon about his/her hoard. He will have a good point. Usually a short but very hot argument in the form of its breath weapon.
obrysii 04-06-06, 10:24 AM	Why would it need to "get" diamond? You don't "get" bone... it grows naturally. That's even sillier. Diamond might have extremely high hardness (not the same as Hardness), but it is potently weak in many ways. Even sunlight can easily destroy diamond.
Wargamer 04-06-06, 10:34 AM	That's even sillier. Diamond might have extremely high hardness (not the same as Hardness), but it is potently weak in many ways. Even sunlight can easily destroy diamond. And a 60' flying flame-breathing lizard isn't silly... but giving it bones made of precious gems is? :rolleyes:
Priest_of_Shaundakul 04-06-06, 10:45 AM	Hey obrysii, if he wants to ruin his game, let him. :D
Lord_Canius 04-06-06, 11:51 AM	Wargamer, if you want to have your dragons have diamond bones, go ahead and have fun. Just don't expect the rest of us to care and/or understand. Personaly, I agree obrysii on this one. Diamond for bone would be just dumb. Oh, wow, now their claws and teeth can cut through anything (barring adamantine and what have you). What does that do for them, other than make them highly fragile, walking sacks of money waiting to happen? Nothing really. It would turn them into glass cannons, in a more litteral sense than ussual. I don't see the point in giving players more wealth from killing a dragon as it is. I mean, seriusly, who cares if the dragons bones are made of diamond, when it possibly has artifacts and inteligent weapons, all manner of powerful (and significantly useful) items, stashed away in its hoard? I'll take a +5 Vorpal Longsword of Speed any day over a butt load of diamond.
vorpal foot 04-06-06, 12:03 PM	Let me see if I have got this right. You think dragons hording gold is stupid despite them being famous for greedy hoarders, yet you think giving them bones made of diamond makes sense? :uh-huh:
Wargamer 04-06-06, 12:22 PM	I for one don't go for campaigns where parties kill a dozen Dragons a week. A Dragon should be something big, something important. The "Diamond Skull" idea is taken from Slaine, and I really do worry about people who can't take the extra step beyond "that's stupid!" and assume that if Diamond doesn't make sense, then simply some other exotic material of value. Hell, given the rules of D&D, it is well within a DM's power to say Diamond doesn't shatter easily, is almost as tough as Adamantium, and is only found in Dragon Bone. The idea certainly does not turn them into "walking sacks of money" any more than sleeping on a 40ft mount of universally minted coin and rare magic items. By definition, Dragonslaying is something that only high-level characters should attempt. These are big, bad-ass monsters of legend, not generic goblins.
Lord_Canius 04-06-06, 12:27 PM	The idea certainly does not turn them into "walking sacks of money" any more than sleeping on a 40ft mount of universally minted coin and rare magic items. By definition, Dragonslaying is something that only high-level characters should attempt. These are big, bad-ass monsters of legend, not generic goblins. You make a decent point, but please note that while I did say that having dragons with diamond bones was rubbish, I did say it was just my opinion. Also note that while I disdained your idea, I also said that is, indeed, your world, and you're free to do whatever the hell you wan't with it. Wargamer, if you want to have your dragons have diamond bones, go ahead and have fun. Just don't expect the rest of us to care and/or understand. Point being, Wargamer, that just because someone does not share your point of view does not neccesarily make them wrong. This goes for both sides of the arguement.
ziggy_killroy 04-06-06, 12:32 PM	If it doesn't shatter easily, is as tough as adamantium, and only found in dragon's bone, its not a diamond. It's Dragonbonium or what ever you'd like to call it. This isn't saying that it can't be valuable, or worth as much as a typical dragon's hoard, but it's not carbon compressed under intense heat. I vaugely remember a DM once telling me that Dragon's ate treasure though...
Lord_Canius 04-06-06, 12:42 PM	Yeah, one of my previus DM's was really awesome with the treasure eating thing. Once we found out about it, whenever we kill a dragon, we always gutted it, just to make sure we got ALL the treasure before selling off the body to some dark cabal of wizards or a powerful merchant.
homey188 04-06-06, 06:51 PM	They do eat treasure, its a requirement for the dragon acsendant prc. They have giant piles of gold because they have les feeling than a human would, what we see as hard metal objects, would just seem like a slightly scratchy pile of shiny food to a dragon.
Phael 04-06-06, 07:52 PM	The Draconomican is an excellent resource. Invest in it. According to it, dragons not only eat their treasure, but they enjoy it. Various types of treasure have pleasant flavors - and good dragons prefer treasure in leiu of eating live creatures. A dragon's biology is unique, and they can easily digest and gain energy from eating that +1 ring of protection as they would from eating the local village's virgins. Dragon bones as diamond? I wouldn't use the idea in my game, personally - but if it fit the flavor of the world, then perhaps. Not so much as true diamond, but some material diamond-like. As for those out there "diamond isn't organic so it can't be bones" Where were you in science/biology class? 1. Crystals exhibit 'growth-like' behaviour as their component molecules accumulate under ideal conditions. A discovery of a cave with 12 foot crystals showed record growth due to the high pressure and immense heat that built within the previously sealed crystal womb. 2. Your bones are more than 70% calcium. Calcium is not organic.
Return of the Flumph 04-06-06, 11:14 PM	What's everyone's problem? I think diamond dragon bones are a great idea. You might have to make it a special KIND of diamond (just like mithral is a special kind of steel), but other than that why not? It's certainly original.
runestar 04-06-06, 11:34 PM	Fear the VOP dragon!!! :D
Wargamer 04-07-06, 02:43 AM	The Draconomican is an excellent resource. Invest in it. According to it, dragons not only eat their treasure, but they enjoy it. Various types of treasure have pleasant flavors - and good dragons prefer treasure in leiu of eating live creatures. A dragon's biology is unique, and they can easily digest and gain energy from eating that +1 ring of protection as they would from eating the local village's virgins. That of course being the sort of information that is totally lacking in the Monster Manual... okay, with that in mind I can see reason for Dragon's to need large piles of treasure.
Lady Maedhros 04-07-06, 06:46 AM	While i truly adore the Drac and think it's an excellent resource, i take issue with the "dragons eat their treasure" thing. I mean seriously, wtf? :nonono: Never had a problem with the idea that they just have it for the sake of having it, though. Like giant magpies, they just love the shiny. They can't help it. Why not? After all, given the choice, humans surround themselves with nice things as well. What good is a painting or a fabrige egg, when you get right down to it? That said, a world where dragons themselves are the treasure sounds like a pretty cool campaign setting to me. The only problem i'd see with it is that you couldn't have the cool, cinematic image of collossal skeletons layering an ancient dragon graveyard, because people would always be running up and stealin that :censored:.
Rogue Elendae 04-07-06, 08:08 PM	Personally, my opinion of dragons hoarding things, particularly gold, is taken straight from the cartoon movie Flight of Dragons, and the book by the same name upon which it was loosely based (if a bit more on The Dragon and the George, but oh, well). Dragons typically breathe fire (or other potentially dangerous things, where D&D dragons are concerned). Therefore, ordinary bedding like feathers or straw would be potentially flammable/otherwise destructible. Therefore, they use a soft metal like gold to pad their sleeping areas, so as to not end up directly on stone. Particularly if they're a dragon that likes their creature-comforts, as it were. Otherwise, my secondary explanation of why dragons have a hoard is simply this. Dragons have always been seen as greedy buggers (look at the story of Fafnir, a dwarf who ended up turned into a dragon for his greed, in Norse mythology!) and therefore it only makes sense that they would have a hoard of all the things they could gather up over their considerable centuries of life. If anything, I think it's kinda fun to think of what a dragon might have in its hoard, or how it got there--the well known dragons in my campaign world even have some measure of backstory as to how they collect their hoards or particular items in them (save for one rather uppity black dragon, who disdains such things). So, if the idea of a dragon having a hoard bothers you so much, then I'd say either go with the idea of dragon bones being living diamond if it means so much to you, or give your dragons a reason for wanting that hoard. Maybe they use it as bedding, maybe they're just greedy. It's your world, and your dragons, so you decide which way to take it.
savant_warlord13 04-07-06, 08:37 PM	Diamond is extremely hard, but also extremely brittle and quite heavy. The dragons would not be able fly and would have bones that break easily and have razor sharp edges.
savant_warlord13 04-07-06, 08:42 PM	...Otherwise, my secondary explanation of why dragons have a hoard is simply this. Dragons have always been seen as greedy buggers (look at the story of Fafnir, a dwarf who ended up turned into a dragon for his greed, in Norse mythology!) and therefore it only makes sense that they would have a hoard of all the things they could gather up over their considerable centuries of life. If anything, I think it's kinda fun to think of what a dragon might have in its hoard, or how it got there--the well known dragons in my campaign world even have some measure of backstory as to how they collect their hoards or particular items in them (save for one rather uppity black dragon, who disdains such things).... If I could, I would call upon my Norse heritage to cast you into the bowels of the 666 Layers of the Abyss. Fafnir was a shapeshifting giant, Sigfried, the human who slew Fafnir, was aided and then tricked by a dwarf, but survived the dwarf's betrayal because he had bathed in dragon blood. Eventually, the dwarf learned that Sigfried had a weak point on his back (much like Achilles' heel), and murdered him.
Derren S. 04-08-06, 03:15 AM	Eventually, the dwarf learned that Sigfried had a weak point on his back (much like Achilles' heel), and murdered him. You must have read a different version of the myth then I have.
ChimericPhase 04-08-06, 04:16 AM	While i truly adore the Drac and think it's an excellent resource, i take issue with the "dragons eat their treasure" thing. I mean seriously, wtf? :nonono: Never had a problem with the idea that they just have it for the sake of having it, though. Like giant magpies, they just love the shiny. They can't help it. Why not? After all, given the choice, humans surround themselves with nice things as well. What good is a painting or a fabrige egg, when you get right down to it? What's so unbelievable about it? I mean we all know a 60 ft electric blue lizard that breaths lightening bolts is soooo totally believable, right? Personally, I like to believe a dragon powers their amazing elemental breath weapon by digesting magic items and gem stones. The draconic fundamentium charged with pure elemental energy, asborbing magic, breaking down items to their atomic pieces and reassembling them into molecules the dragon can use while storing the power unleashed in such a break-down to power his next blast of adventurer melting breath attack. Or I can have magpies. Giant, overweight, scaley, obnoxious magpies with bad breath. Seriously, we can believe Ahuizoti subsist on eyes, teeth, and fingernails, bullettes eat dirt, and giant insects eat steel -- but dragons eating gems is too far fetched? And eating minerals is not a new idea - it's been around in fantasy liturature before. Dragon bones being made out of unusual rare substances are also rampant in fantasy works - the starter of this thread even gave an example, I can think of more. I think this thread starter was looking more for some feedback on substituting a dragon's hoard for the wealth of the dragon's remains - which is not a bad idea. If you're like me and you dislike the idea of reptilian magpies -- it might just be a feasible approach depending on how your group approaches party wealth.
Lady Maedhros 04-08-06, 04:31 AM	What's so unbelievable about it? I mean we all know a 60 ft electric blue lizard that breaths lightening bolts is soooo totally believable, right? Believability is not the issue. It doesn't even resemble the issue. The issue is simply that I find the idea of hoarding wealth for centuries so you can snarf it as a tasty snack just before you die... well, frankly, STUPID. Particularly because the consumption is measured in treasure value. A well-cut diamond does more for the dragon than the exact same quantity of carbon in an unfaceted form... why? Dragons who don't want treasure at all, who are themselves composed of rare and wonderful stuff? Sure, great. Mythical. Cool. Dragons who desire material wealth as a subconcious urge, a metaphorical reflection of the monsters greed can make of us all? Awesome, bring 'em on. Dragons who value piles of gold or pearls for a bed because it feels good on their scales, and happens to be pretty? Okay, just dandy. But the idea that the most ancient and powerful critters in the mortal world rely on human nations to mine the gold, then make the gold into a goblet, then stick precious stones in the goblet, then get the goblet stolen by a dragon, so that dragon can sit on it for ten thousand years and then snarf it all just before it dies so it can get into dragon heaven, thereby obliterating the world's supply of minerals in about three generations, and meaning that the first million years of dragonkind couldn't get into dragon heaven because there was no treasure? Um. Okay. Sure. You think that's mysterious and awesome, more power to ya, it's your game. My opinion, though, some lizard so dumb it chews on priceless works of art and craftsmanship isn't a very mythic or majestic thing. Sorry.
ChimericPhase 04-08-06, 05:09 AM	Believability is not the issue. It doesn't even resemble the issue. The issue is simply that I find the idea of hoarding wealth for centuries so you can snarf it as a tasty snack just before you die... well, frankly, STUPID. Ooooh, You're referring to that silly prestige class for dragons. You know - that one that I didn't mention at all. Not only because it had nothing to do with what I discussing - other than the devouring of gems & other valuable items - but also because I too find the prestige class requirements laughable - but not for quite the same reasons you do. Per the Dragon Ascendant's Requirements: the dragon must devour it's hoard and it's hoard must have a value of at least 100,000. Nothing in the entry states exactly WHAT the hoard must consist of, only it's total value. So if Fulkisthurian the copper dragon has a hoard of 100,000 lbs of cinnamon and Amalthenuris the gold dragon has 200 lbs of platnium and they both devour their entire hoards -- guess what? That's right, they both get to be Dragon Ascendants. Retarded. Particularly because the consumption is measured in treasure value. A well-cut diamond does more for the dragon than the exact same quantity of carbon in an unfaceted form... why? But I do not agree that a dragon would have to rely on human nations to mint, forge, and grind every bit of his treasure before he must acquire it. Never said so either. An aspect of the the D&D system only takes crafted items & cut gems into any serious consideration as far as wealth goes. Wealth relevant to a humanoid that is. Waaaah, it's not realistic. boohoo. The game of Monopoly doesn't make you have to become an architect and learn how to hammer a nail straight - just plop your lil plastic hotel down and move on. So why do we use this? Because it's a game, and it was more effecient to deisign it that way. We have better things to do than calculate the approximate value of X tons of unrefined ore, or X uncut stones. Not only that, the players can 1) relate to it (every one knows what coins look like, not everyone knows what silver ore looks like, everyone has seen a diamond commercial/ad - not everyone knows that a diamond in the rough resembles a rock - just like alot of other rocks - instead of something bright and shiney) and 2) (most importantly) Provide a standard to set all other wealth standards by in game. Wealth rules and their many many many problems aside. Getting back to dragons. Without human nations, dragons would likely do just as well without us. Dragons hundreds of years old, plenty of time to sniff around for some gems and maybe some gold ore. Meh, who needs to cut it? My magically charged digestive system will take care of that for me. Why gold? Why not dirt, or granite, or say even iron pyrite? Hmm well you see it's all in the texture, and the aftertaste is hmm . . well I just can't describe it but it's quite delicious. Oh look, all these silly monkey things are digging up gold and purifying it - and now they're bugging me for my gold ore. Silly monkeys. *Smash Gulp Burp* Hey, that pure gold stuff is kinda tasty. Maybe with my vastly superiour intellect I can stop digging for my own meals and start tricking these silly monkey things to worship me and give me their gold! (Replace "monkey" with any suitable mass humanoid. Humans, kobolds, angsty teenagers, whatever) Meh, the whole issue is debatable and subject to personal opinion in infinitum. Regardless what my opinion is and how I choose to support it, someone will debate it - if only for the sake of disagreeing. Have fun. I'm off to bed.
Lady Maedhros 04-08-06, 08:29 AM	Ooooh, You're referring to that silly prestige class for dragons. You know - that one that I didn't mention at all. Au contraire. From page 15 of the Draconomicon, the sidebar entitled "Avoiding Twilight": Any dragon that has reached the old age category or higher can depart, become a guardian, or become a dracolich. To depart or become a guardian, a dragon must consume at least 135,000 gp worth of treasure - or at least 90% of its hoard, if the dragon posesses treasure worth more than 150,000 gp. All the treausre must be consumed in the same day, and at least 120,000 gp of this treasure must have been part of the dragon's hoard for at least 200 years. Mind you, this is right underneath the part of the text that says dragons hate going through the Twilight (the slow decline from Great Wyrm to death); that they think it's undignified, disgusting. In order to have control over the circumstances of their death, they must chow down on treasure. By the by, we're here in Chapter 1: All About Dragons, not in amongst the prestige classes. Then later, on page 27, under the heading "Why do dragons hoard treasure?", we see the following: The draconic preoccupation with treasure doubtless has an instinctive element that may never be fully explained, but treasure hoarding among dragons has some practical benefits. First, having a valuble treasure at hand gives the dragon some control over the circumstances of its own death. Dragons that lose their hoards often suffer so much emotional trauma that their spirits become restless even after death. Second, and more important, dragons derive status among their own kind from the richness of their hoards. It goes on for a while about how next to age, there's nothing more important to a dragon's ego than the size of his treasure. That's it. No more. The only time a dragon eats its hoard, per the Drac, is when it dies. It has no need to crunch rubies to spit fire or suck creme de l'emerald to cast its spells. In fact, it is the absolute opposite of good for them to eat even a single gold piece, because then the value of his hoard goes down and the other dragons point and laugh at him. So this: Maybe with my vastly superiour intellect I can stop digging for my own meals and start tricking these silly monkey things to worship me and give me their gold! ... and the entire rest of your argument falls apart, because clearly, the dragon is eating this stuff only as part of a death ritual, and now being dead, will not be imparting his discovery to the rest of dragonkind. Yeah, eating your treasure before you die, especially when it doesn't matter if it's ten million pounds of 1cp/ounce feathers or just one roc egg which happens to be worth 2,000,000 gp because it's the last roc egg on Earth, is :censored: inane. And since there isn't any other time a dragon eats its treasure, the idea that the Drac puts forth, that dragons eat their treasure, is :censored: inane. If A=B and B=C, A=C. And yes, that was fun, thank you. :tiphat: But as it was also entirely off-topic for the thread, i'll be moving on.
FearzThug 04-08-06, 10:50 AM	Dragons collect treasure for the same reason a human being would rather drive a Cadillac than a Daihatsu Charade. The same reason we were jewerly, buy overly expensive furniture and a huge house. We dont need it. In the hunter/gathere sense. But we wants it. Dragons are vain.
savant_warlord13 04-08-06, 02:47 PM	Dragons collect treasure for the same reason a human being would rather drive a Cadillac than a Daihatsu Charade. The same reason we were jewerly, buy overly expensive furniture and a huge house. We dont need it. In the hunter/gathere sense. But we wants it. Dragons are vain. Finally, a voice of reason among they hordes of the blind
ChimericPhase 04-09-06, 05:15 AM	The only time a dragon eats its hoard, per the Drac, is when it dies. Really? Because that's not the impression I gathered from actually reading the Draconomican in it's entirety, not just the sidebars. And since we're quoting the Draconomican . . . A dragon can literally eat rock or dirt and survive. "A dragon collects treasure mainly for its beauty -- you don't think there can be too much beauty do you? Besides, some treasure is very good eating." -------- Kacdaninymila, gold dragon (Bronze dragons) . . . also dine on the occasional pearl. They often keep pearls in their lairs, both as treasures and as snacks. Copper dragons are known to eat almost anything, including metal ores. (Gold dragons) . . .enjoy pearls and small gems, which also are their favorite foods. (Pyroclastic dragons) . . . enjoy the taste of meat but can also subsist on a purely mineral diet. Rust dragons feed on corroded metal, but enjoy fresh meat to cleanse the palate between ores.
Phael 04-09-06, 02:39 PM	Both of you are bickering over something stupid and inconsequential. The Draconomican is a supplement. It is not the Holy Bible of Dragons handed down from on high by Io himself. Your dragons can eat whatever the hell they want to eat and get over it! Personaly my dragons eat nothing but Grade A whole white meat chicken breasts and the occasional chocolate milkshake. Ironically though, this all reminded me of a some myth, or perhaps it was a fairy tale, anyways I read it as a child --- about an unhappy oriental dragon and a lil peasant boy who found him - it turned out the dragon needed oranges to fuel his firey breath so he wouldn't be a disgrace among dragons - and the lil peasant boy helped him get lots and lots of oranges and in return the dragon gave the boy some kind of reward that was special but I don't remember what it was.
ChimericPhase 04-09-06, 02:50 PM	Ironically though, this all reminded me of a some myth, or perhaps it was a fairy tale, anyways I read it as a child --- about an unhappy oriental dragon and a lil peasant boy who found him - it turned out the dragon needed oranges to fuel his firey breath so he wouldn't be a disgrace among dragons - and the lil peasant boy helped him get lots and lots of oranges and in return the dragon gave the boy some kind of reward that was special but I don't remember what it was. Hmm, I think I've read that one at long time ago. Didn't the dragon actually belong to the emperor and ran away because he was ashamed because there was an older bigger dragon that was more feirce and firey? The dragons were like the emperor's standards, they stood at his side and looked feirce an' stuff during battles or important events. And then the emperor's soliders came and asked the smaller dragon to return, and the dragon agreed only if they brought the peasant boy with them - the boy was given fine clothes and his job was only to provide the dragon with the best quality oranges every day, in return for which he had an exaulted status and lots of wealth and he got to hang out with his friend the dragon. And every one live happily ever after, the end. I'm wondering if you had the same fairy tale book I did?
obrysii 04-09-06, 05:09 PM	Really? Because that's not the impression I gathered from actually reading the Draconomican in it's entirety, not just the sidebars. And since we're quoting the Draconomican . . . And where in that does it say that Dragons like to eat most, if not all, of their treasure just for the fun of it? Most of these seem to imply that they'll eat those things as occasional treats, a small fraction of their wealth.
ChimericPhase 04-11-06, 06:36 PM	And where in that does it say that Dragons like to eat most, if not all, of their treasure just for the fun of it? Most of these seem to imply that they'll eat those things as occasional treats, a small fraction of their wealth. Fasinating. I am charmed by how you can subsist an entire arguement by repeatedly disputing statements I have not actually made. Its like you're not even debating with me, but rather some figment of your imagination that disputes your very own statements back at you. Do I even need to particpate in this conversation? Shall I let you and your alter ego take it from here? For clarification: I have not said dragons consider their hoards an "all-you-can-eat buffet" I have not said dragons exclusively eat their hoard and nothing else. I have not said dragons can only eat crafted items and cut gems as vs. raw wealth. I have not said dragons can only eat their hoard before death. I have said dragons can and do eat treasure. I have said that the Draconomican gives evidence that this happens at times other than the Dragon Ascendent or the Twilight. Please take the time to read my posts and differentiate between what I have and have not said. I dislike the Dragon Ascendant prestige class. I also find the idea of collecting a hoard just to devour it before the moment of death somewhat preposterous. I agree there has to be a real motivation for collecting a hoard. I have never said the sole motivation for a dragon's hoard is to eat it. So please stop directing your debatable attacks at me and address them to the thread in general or someone else who has actually made the statements you disagree with. Or better yet, start your own thread on the issue.
savant_warlord13 04-11-06, 08:02 PM	I am calling a vote: who thinks diamond bones is stupid? who thinks it makes sense?
Mist of Shadows 04-11-06, 08:20 PM	Not sure if this was covered but I thought I would mention something. I have a dragon character if her bones were made of diamond she would go to the wizards guild and buy a scroll of clone and use it on her self. :) Then harvest the hide and bones for parts. Sell off a tiny part and buy another scroll of clone. And repeat the process until diamond was worth nothing because it was common. I actually thought about using the clone spell on her for the hide to make cloaks. No soul no morals about a clone being killed. Shrugs. Dragons having dimond bones is silly vote +1
Bongitybongbong 04-11-06, 09:01 PM	I am calling a vote: who thinks diamond bones is stupid? who thinks it makes sense? yes and no respectively(sp?)
Reighnhell 04-11-06, 09:30 PM	While it wouldn't work in my campaign, Dragons with diamond bones sounds pretty neat actually. It got a feeling like ancient myth's and legends, even if it's particularly realistic. As stated earlier if your suspension of bdisbelief can handle fire-breathing lizards, undead horrors, and brain-sucking squidmen from the end of time, it can handle bones made of precious minerals. The thing I like about any of the SRD Monsters is that they are for the most part flavorless, and you can add all sorts of little details that don't alter the creature itself too much. And while I consider the Draconomicon a source of great idea's, if I don't use every idea the D&D Gestapo will not confiscate my dice. So I'm not going to playa-hate on anyone for trying something a little bit different.
forrestfire15 04-14-06, 05:23 PM	I am calling a vote: who thinks diamond bones is stupid? who thinks it makes sense? I vote for daimond bones being stupid.