Dragon Size and Improved Natural Attack [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dragon Size and Improved Natural Attack [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
CelestialBarbarian
08-26-05, 07:53 AM Have you noticed that the progression of dragon natural weapon damage does not fully follow the standard weapon size progression? When a dragon's natural attack goes up one size from 2d6 it goes to 2d8 rather than the standard 3d6. Does anyone know what? It makes the dragon a tad weaker physically than it would be if it followed standard size progression for weapons.

Ok, now given that the dragon doesn't fully follow the standard size progression, what happens when the dragon has a natural weapon that does, say, 2d6 when the dragon takes Improved Natural Weapon, which increases the damage of the natural weapon by one size category. Does the dragon get the damage it would get according to the dragon size table on page 69 of Monster Manual, or according to the feat description on page 304? Why did you select the answer you gave?

Thanks! :)
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
08-26-05, 08:11 AM INA stacks with the dragon's damage. For example, if the dragon dealt 2d6 on a claw attack and took INA (claw), it would then deal 3d6 on a claw attack. If that dragon advanced a size category, it would deal 3d8. (One step up from 2d8)

The reason that the dragon damage doesn't increase by size normally is that the damage increase for size was different in 3.0. WotC never changed the table for the damage for dragons.
CelestialBarbarian
08-26-05, 08:19 AM INA stacks with the dragon's damage. For example, if the dragon dealt 2d6 on a claw attack and took INA (claw), it would then deal 3d6 on a claw attack. If that dragon advanced a size category, it would deal 3d8. (One step up from 2d8)

The reason that the dragon damage doesn't increase by size normally is that the damage increase for size was different in 3.0. WotC never changed the table for the damage for dragons.

So you'd argue that the feat supercedes the dragon table because the authors updated the feat for 3.5 but not the dragon table?

Thanks. :)
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
08-26-05, 09:06 AM So you'd argue that the feat supercedes the dragon table because the authors updated the feat for 3.5 but not the dragon table?

Uh, no. They stack. INA improves the dragon's damage. Did you read what I said?
CelestialBarbarian
08-26-05, 09:26 AM Uh, no. They stack. INA improves the dragon's damage. Did you read what I said?

You're misunderstanding what I said, but that's ok. I understood what you meant. ;)
Slagger the Chuul
08-26-05, 11:25 AM What you meant is that when you apply Improved Natural Attack, the normal increase described by INA applies, not the increase to the damage listed on the table of damage for dragon sizes (although you're dealing in a dragon size increase, the INA description supersedes the typical dragon increase), correct?
CelestialBarbarian
08-26-05, 11:41 AM What you meant is that when you apply Improved Natural Attack, the normal increase described by INA applies, not the increase to the damage listed on the table of damage for dragon sizes (although you're dealing in a dragon size increase, the INA description supersedes the typical dragon increase), correct?

Precisely. I was just too tired to restate it myself. Good job. :cool:
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
08-26-05, 12:43 PM Precisely. I was just too tired to restate it myself. Good job. :cool:
If that's the case, then yes, it does. Just remember to apply INA last.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CelestialBarbarian 08-26-05, 07:53 AM	Have you noticed that the progression of dragon natural weapon damage does not fully follow the standard weapon size progression? When a dragon's natural attack goes up one size from 2d6 it goes to 2d8 rather than the standard 3d6. Does anyone know what? It makes the dragon a tad weaker physically than it would be if it followed standard size progression for weapons. Ok, now given that the dragon doesn't fully follow the standard size progression, what happens when the dragon has a natural weapon that does, say, 2d6 when the dragon takes Improved Natural Weapon, which increases the damage of the natural weapon by one size category. Does the dragon get the damage it would get according to the dragon size table on page 69 of Monster Manual, or according to the feat description on page 304? Why did you select the answer you gave? Thanks! :)
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 08-26-05, 08:11 AM	INA stacks with the dragon's damage. For example, if the dragon dealt 2d6 on a claw attack and took INA (claw), it would then deal 3d6 on a claw attack. If that dragon advanced a size category, it would deal 3d8. (One step up from 2d8) The reason that the dragon damage doesn't increase by size normally is that the damage increase for size was different in 3.0. WotC never changed the table for the damage for dragons.
CelestialBarbarian 08-26-05, 08:19 AM	INA stacks with the dragon's damage. For example, if the dragon dealt 2d6 on a claw attack and took INA (claw), it would then deal 3d6 on a claw attack. If that dragon advanced a size category, it would deal 3d8. (One step up from 2d8) The reason that the dragon damage doesn't increase by size normally is that the damage increase for size was different in 3.0. WotC never changed the table for the damage for dragons. So you'd argue that the feat supercedes the dragon table because the authors updated the feat for 3.5 but not the dragon table? Thanks. :)
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 08-26-05, 09:06 AM	So you'd argue that the feat supercedes the dragon table because the authors updated the feat for 3.5 but not the dragon table? Uh, no. They stack. INA improves the dragon's damage. Did you read what I said?
CelestialBarbarian 08-26-05, 09:26 AM	Uh, no. They stack. INA improves the dragon's damage. Did you read what I said? You're misunderstanding what I said, but that's ok. I understood what you meant. ;)
Slagger the Chuul 08-26-05, 11:25 AM	What you meant is that when you apply Improved Natural Attack, the normal increase described by INA applies, not the increase to the damage listed on the table of damage for dragon sizes (although you're dealing in a dragon size increase, the INA description supersedes the typical dragon increase), correct?
CelestialBarbarian 08-26-05, 11:41 AM	What you meant is that when you apply Improved Natural Attack, the normal increase described by INA applies, not the increase to the damage listed on the table of damage for dragon sizes (although you're dealing in a dragon size increase, the INA description supersedes the typical dragon increase), correct? Precisely. I was just too tired to restate it myself. Good job. :cool:
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 08-26-05, 12:43 PM	Precisely. I was just too tired to restate it myself. Good job. :cool: If that's the case, then yes, it does. Just remember to apply INA last.