Dragonkith question... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dragonkith question... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
MrFahrenheit
03-20-04, 10:46 PM Hi. I'm new here, and I'm just starting to really get into D&D. For a while I played the old 80's computer games (that were ported to CD sometime in the early/mid 90's). Anyways I'm trying to build my own campaign. I noticed that the dragonkith prestige class doesn't necessarily require any previous classes (this is mainly intended for monsters, as they seem to infer in the Draconomicon). I want to make a beholder dragonkith. My question is, does each level of dragonkith add to the challenge rating? Would a level 10 dragonkith beholder be CR 23 (as a beholder alone is CR 13), or would it be something else?

:behold:
Moradin
03-20-04, 11:04 PM To answer your question; yes. Every level of a class counts as an extra challenge rating (i.e. a lvl 10 human fighter is a CR of 10). A Beholder is a base of 13, as you said. So with each level of Dragonkith you put onto the Beholder, its challenge rating will increase by one.
MrFahrenheit
03-20-04, 11:06 PM Thanks. That kinda screws me up though cuz the only 20+ monster I was planning to have was the great wyrm white dragon. Guess the beholder won't be more than level 5 at most (obviously comes late in the campaign as I'm planning to have the characters start at level 1).

Thanks again.
Mithral Icesilver
03-27-04, 11:33 AM I have another question, as long as we're on the subject of Dragonkiths ...

Supposing you were a dragonkith, would having your dragon in temporal stasis and placed where noone could harm it mean you could keep your powers until the end of your natural lifespan?
MrFahrenheit
04-02-04, 12:41 AM Wow interesting...

Another question:

If a devil were to become a dragonkith and then collect its soul and the dragon were to die, would the devil retain its abilities as the dragon may as well be alive in this case?
Sssargoth
04-02-04, 11:30 PM to answer ur second question, u would keep all abilities and gain additional abilities if u didnt max out when it went into stasis

to answer ur third question, i have no idea. the first thought is, u lose all abilities. after thinking about it, see previous answer. but both situations r up to DM discresion.
Mithral Icesilver
04-03-04, 05:17 PM Thanks. That might just be a good idea for an adventure hook:

A red dragonkith balor is terrorizing a well-travelled astral trade route. Travel the abyss to find & kill the balor's dragon, who is locked in stasis on layer 42. Later, discover a mixed colony of CG, CN, and CE outsiders living in an enclosed, wind-less bit of pandemonium only reachable by portal.
The tunnels, when mapped, make a giant 4, and there's a permanent portal to another such colony shaped like a 2 to the (whatever passes for east).

A long 42-themed setting, as you can see.
MrFahrenheit
04-04-04, 05:23 PM Hey wasnt 42 the answer to every question in the universe in "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy?"

And why have the balor be a red dragonkith? If it's gonna lock the dragon in stasis, it should go white or black - don't balors already have enough resistance to fire? Making them extremely resistant and giving them prowess over another element - especially frost - would make them already more terrifying.

Of course the balor would be more intelligent than the white dragon, but the purpose of the relationship would be so the balor could reach 10th level and then put the dragon in stasis/collect its soul.

An interesting, ultimate epic campaign could culminate in fighting a CR 40 pit lord who is both a green and a blue (the LE dragons) dragonkith, after having gained 10 ranks from the green and then stealing its soul, and then transforming its physical appearance back to normal and doing the same thing with a blue dragon.
Mithral Icesilver
04-05-04, 06:13 PM Originally posted by MrFahrenheit
Hey wasnt 42 the answer to every question in the universe in "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy?"
My Response:
Close. It was the answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything. But that is the idea, yeah.

And why have the balor be a red dragonkith? If it's gonna lock the dragon in stasis, it should go white or black - don't balors already have enough resistance to fire? Making them extremely resistant and giving them prowess over another element - especially frost - would make them already more terrifying.
My Response:
Two points:
1. Tanar'ri are already resistant to cold.
2. Fire just made sense.
3. It'd be creepy to see a white balor.
4. Black is a good idea though.
Four points. (I sound almost like Xanxost, don't I?)

Of course the balor would be more intelligent than the white dragon, but the purpose of the relationship would be so the balor could reach 10th level and then put the dragon in stasis/collect its soul.
My Response:
In relationship with point 4, above, blacks are the second least intelligent chromatic dragon in existence. (Also the second smallest. Funny how that works out, huh?)
Also, this would probably go better on the MotP or BoVD boards, but I never understood how the soul-stealing thing worked.

An interesting, ultimate epic campaign could culminate in fighting a CR 40 pit lord* who is both a green and a blue (the LE dragons) dragonkith, after having gained 10 ranks from the green and then stealing its soul, and then transforming its physical appearance back to normal and doing the same thing with a blue dragon.
My Response:
Oh, you mean like how a King of the Wild can be a King of the Desert AND a King of the ... umm ... Forest?
*By the way, I think you mean pit fiend
MrFahrenheit
04-07-04, 12:46 AM lol yes I meant pit fiend...my fingers just sorta typed "lord" instead...

but damn...a blue-green pit fiend

Actually an epic campaign that's still in the process of being tossed around in my mind is to end with an evil stone giant elder (CR 9) who has 18 levs in Sor, 3 levs in Hulking Hurler, and 10 levs in dragonkith with a pyroclastic dragon (CR 40), but after trafficking with devils, stole its soul and now rules over a vast nation...the goal of the campaign would be for the players to form a coup.

EDIT: After fighting through five BBEG's, the PCs would have a chance to rest before going through a portal to the Elemental Plane of Earth, where the giant would be waiting (the giant would be humongously smart, perhaps Int 26, and a reclusive leader even though his forces of oppression would be everywhere...All other stone giant elder stats would remain the same, except those modified by the classes)
Sssargoth
04-08-04, 02:19 AM quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An interesting, ultimate epic campaign could culminate in fighting a CR 40 pit lord* who is both a green and a blue (the LE dragons) dragonkith, after having gained 10 ranks from the green and then stealing its soul, and then transforming its physical appearance back to normal and doing the same thing with a blue dragon.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

u can only take the Dragonkith prestiege class only once. sorry to rain on ur paraid.
Doom of Men
04-08-04, 07:42 AM Originally posted by Mithral Icesilver
My Response:
Two points:
1. Tanar'ri are already resistant to cold.
2. Fire just made sense.
3. It'd be creepy to see a white balor.
4. Black is a good idea though.
Four points. (I sound almost like Xanxost, don't I?)

You sound like the spanish inquisition.;) Who knows what I'm talking about?

Hint: M.... P.....
BladeBoy
04-08-04, 03:48 PM Nobody expects the Spanish Inquistion!
Wow, I feel dirty for using that Monty Python joke
*goes and gets an atonement spell*
MrFahrenheit
04-08-04, 08:52 PM Originally posted by Sssargoth
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An interesting, ultimate epic campaign could culminate in fighting a CR 40 pit lord* who is both a green and a blue (the LE dragons) dragonkith, after having gained 10 ranks from the green and then stealing its soul, and then transforming its physical appearance back to normal and doing the same thing with a blue dragon.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

u can only take the Dragonkith prestiege class only once. sorry to rain on ur paraid.

aww...sorry to rain on your PARADE but you spelled parade wrong :teach:
MrFahrenheit
04-16-04, 12:43 AM Hmm another idea I just had...dragons can be dragonkiths right? Well what if a cunning red dragon decided to grin and bear it and gain 10 levels in dragonkith from a white dragon, stole the dragon's soul and then was immune to both frost and fire? Though obviously not immune to lightning, acid, or sonic, the fact of the matter is that the red dragon's main weakness will have been eliminated completely.

Ooh good campaign idea! Players (at about 33) come to a fork in the campaign - they can either go right for the red (who is also a great wyrm, putting his CR at 36) or go and try to free the white's soul. If they choose the latter, they will have to campaign a bit more, but in reward, the last boss will be considerably easier (26 instead of 36)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MrFahrenheit 03-20-04, 10:46 PM	Hi. I'm new here, and I'm just starting to really get into D&D. For a while I played the old 80's computer games (that were ported to CD sometime in the early/mid 90's). Anyways I'm trying to build my own campaign. I noticed that the dragonkith prestige class doesn't necessarily require any previous classes (this is mainly intended for monsters, as they seem to infer in the Draconomicon). I want to make a beholder dragonkith. My question is, does each level of dragonkith add to the challenge rating? Would a level 10 dragonkith beholder be CR 23 (as a beholder alone is CR 13), or would it be something else? :behold:
Moradin 03-20-04, 11:04 PM	To answer your question; yes. Every level of a class counts as an extra challenge rating (i.e. a lvl 10 human fighter is a CR of 10). A Beholder is a base of 13, as you said. So with each level of Dragonkith you put onto the Beholder, its challenge rating will increase by one.
MrFahrenheit 03-20-04, 11:06 PM	Thanks. That kinda screws me up though cuz the only 20+ monster I was planning to have was the great wyrm white dragon. Guess the beholder won't be more than level 5 at most (obviously comes late in the campaign as I'm planning to have the characters start at level 1). Thanks again.
Mithral Icesilver 03-27-04, 11:33 AM	I have another question, as long as we're on the subject of Dragonkiths ... Supposing you were a dragonkith, would having your dragon in temporal stasis and placed where noone could harm it mean you could keep your powers until the end of your natural lifespan?
MrFahrenheit 04-02-04, 12:41 AM	Wow interesting... Another question: If a devil were to become a dragonkith and then collect its soul and the dragon were to die, would the devil retain its abilities as the dragon may as well be alive in this case?
Sssargoth 04-02-04, 11:30 PM	to answer ur second question, u would keep all abilities and gain additional abilities if u didnt max out when it went into stasis to answer ur third question, i have no idea. the first thought is, u lose all abilities. after thinking about it, see previous answer. but both situations r up to DM discresion.
Mithral Icesilver 04-03-04, 05:17 PM	Thanks. That might just be a good idea for an adventure hook: A red dragonkith balor is terrorizing a well-travelled astral trade route. Travel the abyss to find & kill the balor's dragon, who is locked in stasis on layer 42. Later, discover a mixed colony of CG, CN, and CE outsiders living in an enclosed, wind-less bit of pandemonium only reachable by portal. The tunnels, when mapped, make a giant 4, and there's a permanent portal to another such colony shaped like a 2 to the (whatever passes for east). A long 42-themed setting, as you can see.
MrFahrenheit 04-04-04, 05:23 PM	Hey wasnt 42 the answer to every question in the universe in "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy?" And why have the balor be a red dragonkith? If it's gonna lock the dragon in stasis, it should go white or black - don't balors already have enough resistance to fire? Making them extremely resistant and giving them prowess over another element - especially frost - would make them already more terrifying. Of course the balor would be more intelligent than the white dragon, but the purpose of the relationship would be so the balor could reach 10th level and then put the dragon in stasis/collect its soul. An interesting, ultimate epic campaign could culminate in fighting a CR 40 pit lord who is both a green and a blue (the LE dragons) dragonkith, after having gained 10 ranks from the green and then stealing its soul, and then transforming its physical appearance back to normal and doing the same thing with a blue dragon.
Mithral Icesilver 04-05-04, 06:13 PM	Originally posted by MrFahrenheit Hey wasnt 42 the answer to every question in the universe in "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy?" My Response: Close. It was the answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything. But that is the idea, yeah. And why have the balor be a red dragonkith? If it's gonna lock the dragon in stasis, it should go white or black - don't balors already have enough resistance to fire? Making them extremely resistant and giving them prowess over another element - especially frost - would make them already more terrifying. My Response: Two points: 1. Tanar'ri are already resistant to cold. 2. Fire just made sense. 3. It'd be creepy to see a white balor. 4. Black is a good idea though. Four points. (I sound almost like Xanxost, don't I?) Of course the balor would be more intelligent than the white dragon, but the purpose of the relationship would be so the balor could reach 10th level and then put the dragon in stasis/collect its soul. My Response: In relationship with point 4, above, blacks are the second least intelligent chromatic dragon in existence. (Also the second smallest. Funny how that works out, huh?) Also, this would probably go better on the MotP or BoVD boards, but I never understood how the soul-stealing thing worked. An interesting, ultimate epic campaign could culminate in fighting a CR 40 pit lord* who is both a green and a blue (the LE dragons) dragonkith, after having gained 10 ranks from the green and then stealing its soul, and then transforming its physical appearance back to normal and doing the same thing with a blue dragon. My Response: Oh, you mean like how a King of the Wild can be a King of the Desert AND a King of the ... umm ... Forest? *By the way, I think you mean pit fiend
MrFahrenheit 04-07-04, 12:46 AM	lol yes I meant pit fiend...my fingers just sorta typed "lord" instead... but damn...a blue-green pit fiend Actually an epic campaign that's still in the process of being tossed around in my mind is to end with an evil stone giant elder (CR 9) who has 18 levs in Sor, 3 levs in Hulking Hurler, and 10 levs in dragonkith with a pyroclastic dragon (CR 40), but after trafficking with devils, stole its soul and now rules over a vast nation...the goal of the campaign would be for the players to form a coup. EDIT: After fighting through five BBEG's, the PCs would have a chance to rest before going through a portal to the Elemental Plane of Earth, where the giant would be waiting (the giant would be humongously smart, perhaps Int 26, and a reclusive leader even though his forces of oppression would be everywhere...All other stone giant elder stats would remain the same, except those modified by the classes)
Sssargoth 04-08-04, 02:19 AM	quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- An interesting, ultimate epic campaign could culminate in fighting a CR 40 pit lord* who is both a green and a blue (the LE dragons) dragonkith, after having gained 10 ranks from the green and then stealing its soul, and then transforming its physical appearance back to normal and doing the same thing with a blue dragon. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- u can only take the Dragonkith prestiege class only once. sorry to rain on ur paraid.
Doom of Men 04-08-04, 07:42 AM	Originally posted by Mithral Icesilver My Response: Two points: 1. Tanar'ri are already resistant to cold. 2. Fire just made sense. 3. It'd be creepy to see a white balor. 4. Black is a good idea though. Four points. (I sound almost like Xanxost, don't I?) You sound like the spanish inquisition.;) Who knows what I'm talking about? Hint: M.... P.....
BladeBoy 04-08-04, 03:48 PM	Nobody expects the Spanish Inquistion! Wow, I feel dirty for using that Monty Python joke goes and gets an atonement spell
MrFahrenheit 04-08-04, 08:52 PM	Originally posted by Sssargoth quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- An interesting, ultimate epic campaign could culminate in fighting a CR 40 pit lord* who is both a green and a blue (the LE dragons) dragonkith, after having gained 10 ranks from the green and then stealing its soul, and then transforming its physical appearance back to normal and doing the same thing with a blue dragon. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- u can only take the Dragonkith prestiege class only once. sorry to rain on ur paraid. aww...sorry to rain on your PARADE but you spelled parade wrong :teach:
MrFahrenheit 04-16-04, 12:43 AM	Hmm another idea I just had...dragons can be dragonkiths right? Well what if a cunning red dragon decided to grin and bear it and gain 10 levels in dragonkith from a white dragon, stole the dragon's soul and then was immune to both frost and fire? Though obviously not immune to lightning, acid, or sonic, the fact of the matter is that the red dragon's main weakness will have been eliminated completely. Ooh good campaign idea! Players (at about 33) come to a fork in the campaign - they can either go right for the red (who is also a great wyrm, putting his CR at 36) or go and try to free the white's soul. If they choose the latter, they will have to campaign a bit more, but in reward, the last boss will be considerably easier (26 instead of 36)