Dragons in Disguise [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dragons in Disguise [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Snommelp
05-31-06, 08:20 PM In the game world I am building, I have decided that, in one part of the world, dragons have been hunted to near-extinction by religious zealots of every humanoid race. In order to survive, the dragons of this region (chromatic and metallic alike) have developed the innate ability to polymorph into humanoid forms. More specifically, each dragon chooses three specific humanoids which it can polymorph into at will after it reaches the Juvenile age category. Transforming into one of these disguises is a move action, but changing back to the natural draconic form is a free action. I call this new breed of dragons "shifter dragons." Shifter half-dragons also have this ability, except that they can only polymorph into the form which they would have if they were not half dragon (a male, elven shifter half-dragon could only polymorph into one male elf, for example).

But every thread must have a question. Here is mine: how much should this shifter power effect the CR and LA of the dragons? Should the dragons get this shifting power at the expense of other dragon powers?
sabrewolf
05-31-06, 11:50 PM While some scaled cousing might have a better insight uppon the matter, Let´s see if i can lend a paw for the while.. :P

Shifting into humanoids forms (like polymorph) 3 time / day:

Metalic dragons already have such a power - unlimited if i recall corectly - either as wirmlings or shortly after, so it´s more a tweaking of special trait about them... Chromatic dragons. I would give them the same or allow them to develop it with a feat but that´s just me. :D

You can either add this to them or replace one of their spell like habilities but for that you might first wish to consider how much such is worth, not unlike considering a new magic iten:

- Consider the Spell Level X Caster Level X 2000 for Polymorph, like it was an iten, doubling the result since it´s a slotless thing. (or you might tripleitinstead since it´s not only slotless but not an iten at all)
- Reduce the vallue by some amount ( X .75 for 75%, or X .5 for 50% for example) due to the 3/day limitation and the forms limitation.

Now you can look up on the starting treasure´s gold vallue and consider it part of that ammount OR convert the power´s gold vallue to XP by dividing you current vallue by 5 and look up at the XP X Level table. Adding that amount as a XP bonus (rounded up) might be enough for a level up, granting a + LA.

Another way could be simply assign it a +1 LA - it IS a usefull power but hardly unbalancing factor in combat.. A look at Savage Species (if possible) might be more enlightening and less complicated then my above iten-related aproach.. :P

Now, about CRs, i wouldnt worry about that. Dragons have enough power and treasure (itens) on higher levels to do that so only wirmlings (if so) or very youngs might get an impact out of that. But being a non combat power - and yes, i know as humanoid the dragon could use itens like any other humanoid but also looses most of his natural powers from being a dragon, so i guess it evens out - it´d be better to add a circunstance bonus to a XP award from an encounter with such a dragon as appropriate instead of assigning all a + to their CRs.

On Half-Dragons, you might take the same aproach starting from a standard human with the template and adjusting the template accordingly. Also you might just need to adjust/twek the paragon Half-Dragon racial Prc, substituting the bonus spell slots with that power (and even giving a chance to improove it with more levels).

Hope all the above barking is of use for you.. Personnaly i´d just give ti for free for NPC dragons, consider it part of treasure for PC dragons and tweak the paragon half-dragon or adjust the original half-dragon template..
Molot
06-01-06, 04:17 AM For halfdragon - while in humanoid form, he cannot benefit from almost anything granted by template (str and con bonuses, natural armor, breath weapon), and he still suffers LA... If he will use this ability, it'll make him combat-weaker large part of the time. I'd grant it without LA modification to them, maybe as a feat they could take or not. Or maybe just like that. I've started playing this kind of halfdragon, rogue/bard type to benefit from this abiliyt. It was fun, but I wasn't as strong as other characters.
CannibalSmith
06-01-06, 06:05 PM Give all chromatics +1 level adjustement, +0 to all half-dragons and metallics, and you're ready to go.
Snommelp
06-02-06, 01:33 AM Thanks for the responses, guys.

sabrewolf: not sure where you got 3/day from. The power's at will. The only 3 in there is the number of alter-egos a dragon can have.

Molot: that's a good idea. Logically, any half-dragon using the ability would be hiding, and probably not too keen on getting into a fight anyway. And if I take away the stat bonuses while disguised, it could force trigger-happy players to think before starting a barroom brawl. Also, it fits with the Polymorph spell, which this is essentially just a variation of.

So in general, you three say either a +1 LA or no LA adjustment, and no CR adjustment? That seems to be the consensus. Any other thoughts? Also, how should this ability affect the Dragon Disciple PrC, assuming that a player wants to have a shifter dragon ancestor?

Once again, thanks for the responses.
CannibalSmith
06-02-06, 01:44 AM You can give -1 LA to all metallics instead. Being in disguide full-time means: no natural armor, no abilities, no breath weapon, no claws. And being draconic in a world where such creatures ar killed on sight gives them at least an additional -1 LA.
Molot
06-02-06, 02:39 AM For dragon disciple:
1st lvl - 1 / day (full round / full round)
5th lvl - 3 / day (full round / move)
9th lvl - unlimited (move / sudden)

*( A / B) means (Action to turn into humanoid / Action to turn into natural form)
If you are using sudden & immediate actions, grant turning as sudden, not free.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Snommelp 05-31-06, 08:20 PM	In the game world I am building, I have decided that, in one part of the world, dragons have been hunted to near-extinction by religious zealots of every humanoid race. In order to survive, the dragons of this region (chromatic and metallic alike) have developed the innate ability to polymorph into humanoid forms. More specifically, each dragon chooses three specific humanoids which it can polymorph into at will after it reaches the Juvenile age category. Transforming into one of these disguises is a move action, but changing back to the natural draconic form is a free action. I call this new breed of dragons "shifter dragons." Shifter half-dragons also have this ability, except that they can only polymorph into the form which they would have if they were not half dragon (a male, elven shifter half-dragon could only polymorph into one male elf, for example). But every thread must have a question. Here is mine: how much should this shifter power effect the CR and LA of the dragons? Should the dragons get this shifting power at the expense of other dragon powers?
sabrewolf 05-31-06, 11:50 PM	While some scaled cousing might have a better insight uppon the matter, Let´s see if i can lend a paw for the while.. :P Shifting into humanoids forms (like polymorph) 3 time / day: Metalic dragons already have such a power - unlimited if i recall corectly - either as wirmlings or shortly after, so it´s more a tweaking of special trait about them... Chromatic dragons. I would give them the same or allow them to develop it with a feat but that´s just me. :D You can either add this to them or replace one of their spell like habilities but for that you might first wish to consider how much such is worth, not unlike considering a new magic iten: - Consider the Spell Level X Caster Level X 2000 for Polymorph, like it was an iten, doubling the result since it´s a slotless thing. (or you might tripleitinstead since it´s not only slotless but not an iten at all) - Reduce the vallue by some amount ( X .75 for 75%, or X .5 for 50% for example) due to the 3/day limitation and the forms limitation. Now you can look up on the starting treasure´s gold vallue and consider it part of that ammount OR convert the power´s gold vallue to XP by dividing you current vallue by 5 and look up at the XP X Level table. Adding that amount as a XP bonus (rounded up) might be enough for a level up, granting a + LA. Another way could be simply assign it a +1 LA - it IS a usefull power but hardly unbalancing factor in combat.. A look at Savage Species (if possible) might be more enlightening and less complicated then my above iten-related aproach.. :P Now, about CRs, i wouldnt worry about that. Dragons have enough power and treasure (itens) on higher levels to do that so only wirmlings (if so) or very youngs might get an impact out of that. But being a non combat power - and yes, i know as humanoid the dragon could use itens like any other humanoid but also looses most of his natural powers from being a dragon, so i guess it evens out - it´d be better to add a circunstance bonus to a XP award from an encounter with such a dragon as appropriate instead of assigning all a + to their CRs. On Half-Dragons, you might take the same aproach starting from a standard human with the template and adjusting the template accordingly. Also you might just need to adjust/twek the paragon Half-Dragon racial Prc, substituting the bonus spell slots with that power (and even giving a chance to improove it with more levels). Hope all the above barking is of use for you.. Personnaly i´d just give ti for free for NPC dragons, consider it part of treasure for PC dragons and tweak the paragon half-dragon or adjust the original half-dragon template..
Molot 06-01-06, 04:17 AM	For halfdragon - while in humanoid form, he cannot benefit from almost anything granted by template (str and con bonuses, natural armor, breath weapon), and he still suffers LA... If he will use this ability, it'll make him combat-weaker large part of the time. I'd grant it without LA modification to them, maybe as a feat they could take or not. Or maybe just like that. I've started playing this kind of halfdragon, rogue/bard type to benefit from this abiliyt. It was fun, but I wasn't as strong as other characters.
CannibalSmith 06-01-06, 06:05 PM	Give all chromatics +1 level adjustement, +0 to all half-dragons and metallics, and you're ready to go.
Snommelp 06-02-06, 01:33 AM	Thanks for the responses, guys. sabrewolf: not sure where you got 3/day from. The power's at will. The only 3 in there is the number of alter-egos a dragon can have. Molot: that's a good idea. Logically, any half-dragon using the ability would be hiding, and probably not too keen on getting into a fight anyway. And if I take away the stat bonuses while disguised, it could force trigger-happy players to think before starting a barroom brawl. Also, it fits with the Polymorph spell, which this is essentially just a variation of. So in general, you three say either a +1 LA or no LA adjustment, and no CR adjustment? That seems to be the consensus. Any other thoughts? Also, how should this ability affect the Dragon Disciple PrC, assuming that a player wants to have a shifter dragon ancestor? Once again, thanks for the responses.
CannibalSmith 06-02-06, 01:44 AM	You can give -1 LA to all metallics instead. Being in disguide full-time means: no natural armor, no abilities, no breath weapon, no claws. And being draconic in a world where such creatures ar killed on sight gives them at least an additional -1 LA.
Molot 06-02-06, 02:39 AM	For dragon disciple: 1st lvl - 1 / day (full round / full round) 5th lvl - 3 / day (full round / move) 9th lvl - unlimited (move / sudden) *( A / B) means (Action to turn into humanoid / Action to turn into natural form) If you are using sudden & immediate actions, grant turning as sudden, not free.