Post/Author/DateTime	Post
halfhand 03-11-06, 03:40 AM	GREEN DRAGON Breath weapon Primary Damage; Acidic Burns (External physical damage, Fort save for half) Secondary damage; Poisonous Gas (Internal physical damage, Fort save for half) Tertiary damage; Nauseousness (1D6 Str damage, Fort save negates) Special attacks Festering bite & claws Anyone that suffers damage from Green dragons bite attack, can become afflicted by disease; Incubation time 1 day Fort save DC 10 +2 per age category Hair falls of and skin rots (1D6 Cha damage) Stench When within 5? of the dragon; Fort save vs 10 +2 per age category or suffer -2 to all actions because of the nauseating stench of the dragon. Enhanced Tail slap One dice category higher damage. Opponent is knocked down if Fort save vs 10 +2 per age category is not made. Acidic blood If hit in melee, opponents within 5 feet of the dragon suffer 1D8 damage, Ref save for half. Vulnerabilities Fire Double damage from fire. When fire damage of at least 2 points (12) per age category from fire is suffered, the dragon has to quickly cool itself. It does so by lifting its scales momentarily (for one round). During that time, the dragon is highly vulnerable to physical blows to its s soft skin (AC bonus from natural armor halved) Cold Double damage from cold. Also, the dragon suffers the effects of Slow for one round if it suffers cold damage of at least 2 points per age category. WHITE DRAGON Icewalking (no effects from slippery footage) Blindsight (30? * age category) Breath weapon Breath weapon; Freezing fog (Cone) Primary Damage; Physical damage (Ref save for half) Secondary damage; Slowness (as spell, duration 1 round per age category, Fort save negates) Special attacks Aura of cold (Adult+) The dragon is surrounded by aura of coldness at all times; -2 to all actions (including attacks) within 5 feet of the dragon. Special Defences Immunity to cold Immunity to bleeding; the dragons blood is so thick that it does not bleed at all. Vulnerabilities Fire Double damage from fire. When damage of at least 2 points per age category from fire is suffered, the dragon has to quickly cool itself. It does so by lifting its scales momentarily (for one round). During that time, the dragon is highly vulnerable to physical blows to its s soft skin (AC bonus from natural armor halved) The White dragon is also afraid of fire. It does not voluntarily come close to fire. BLACK DRAGON Breath weapon Breath weapon; acidic (Poisonous spit (Contact poison, Cone or Line) Primary Damage; Acidic burns (Ref for half) Secondary damage; Paralyzation (Duration 1 round per age category, Fort save negates) Special attacks Festering bite Anyone that suffers damage from Black dragons bite attack, can become afflicted by disease; Incubation time 1 day Fort save DC 10 +2 per age category Hair falls of and skin rots (1D6 Cha damage) Scythe talons Black dragon has long talons in its wrists. Therefore, its claw attacks inflict double damage Rage When reduced to half or less hit points, the Black dragon enters into rage. The rage has no negative effects afterwards. +2 to Str and Con (+1 to attacks and damage, +1 temporary Hp per HD) +1 to will saves -2 to AC Duration; Con +3 Special Defences Evasion Black dragon has Evasion as the feat. Burst of speed Double movement for 5 rounds. Fatigued for 10 rounds (-4 to Str and Con) Immunity to poisons Vulnerabilities Cold Double damage from cold Also, the dragon suffers the effects of Slow for one round if it suffers cold damage of at least 2 points per age category. If you're inspired by my dragon ideas, perhaps you would like to help me to make the Blue and Red also more intresting? Blue Dragon Faster; improved initiative feat and higher dexterity than 10? Breath weapon also causes knockdown, possibly hurling the target tens of feet into the air? Red Dragon ?
Black Jack Davey 03-11-06, 05:22 AM	Some of the ideas aren't bad. I'm much to tired to check to see if they're balanced. But really...rethinked?
halfhand 03-11-06, 05:25 AM	BLUE DRAGON Blue dragon is quicker and more nimble than other dragons. Therefore it Dexterity score is 14 instead of 10. Breath weapon Breath weapon; Thunderous bolt of lightning (line) Primary Damage; Physical damage (Ref save for half) Secondary Damage; Knockdown (Fort save vs. breath weapon) Tertiary Damage; Deafness (Duration 1D4 rounds + age category, Fort save for half) Special attacks Lightning claws (Adult+) The dragons claws are imbued with electricity energy, causing extra 1D4 lightning damage with each hit Special Defences Aura of Electricity (Adult+) The dragon can at will, surround itself with aura of lightning. Every creature that physically hits the dragon while its aura is "on", suffers 1D4 lightning damage. Evasion Blue dragon has Evasion and Improved initiative feats Immunity to electricity Vulnerabilities Water When hit with water attacks (like hits from a water elemental), the Blue dragon suffers from its own electricity power, and therefore suffers double damage from water based attacks. RED DRAGON Breath weapon Breath weapon; Flames (Cone or Line, as chosen by the dragon) Primary Damage; Physical damage (Ref save for half) Secondary Damage; Catching fire (IF failed the Primary damage save.1D6 damage for 3 rounds, no save) Special attacks Aura of flames (Adult+) The dragon can surround itself with aura of intense heat and flames at will; all creatures within 5? of the dragon suffer 1D6 fire damage per round. Special Defences Immunity to fire Vulnerabilities Cold Double damage from cold Also, the dragon suffers the effects of Slow for one round if it suffers cold damage of at least 2 points per age category.
halfhand 03-11-06, 05:33 AM	Some of the ideas aren't bad. I'm much to tired to check to see if they're balanced. But really...rethinked? Well what would you require so that the "rethinked" would apply? I would be really interested if you had any ideas about really rethinking dragons. And balanced? Balance doesn't exist in D&D (nor in any other RPG's with enough different factors), so I didn't bother with even thinking about that.
halfhand 03-11-06, 05:45 AM	RETHINKING Dragons.... Here I try to think how Dragons could be quite different than what we are used to (in the world of D&D). Dragons, general info Dragons are more like very effective predators. Therefore they have only average intelligence and no spells, innate or otherwise. Language Their ?"anguage" or roars and groans is only understood by a dragon of same species, or by someone using magic to comprehend the speech. Dragons do not have telepathic capabilities or anything other of that sort. Polymorphing Dragons cannot polymorph to any other kind of creatures. Age As a predators, Dragons reach maturity quickly. 1. Wyrmling 0-2 2. Very young 3-7 3. Young 8-12 4. Juvenile 13-25 5. Young adult 26-50 6. Adult 51-100 7. Mature adult 101-200 8. Old 201-300 9. Very old 301-400 10. Ancient 401-500 11. Wyrm 501-600 12. Great wyrm 600+ Type Type comes from their terrain, not from colour Winged vs Wingless Winged dragons are lighter, smaller and have much greater windspan. Wingless dragons don't have wings, but are often good swimmer/burrowers, and much larger than the winged dragons. Treasure Dragons do not collect hoards of treasure. Treasure can be found from their bellies, of what they have eaten. Usually only gems can stand the diabolism of a dragon. Also magical items might be found, that are appropriate (potions and scrolls would dissolve in the belly of the dragon). The main treasure itself is the dragon. Armour and shields an be made of the hides, and other bodyparts can be used as components for spells and magical items. Also blood may be collected to special vials (the blood may have poisonous or other effect) In general, all parts of the dragon are extremely valuable, to collectors, if not otherwise Camouflage The colouring of the scales of most dragons can adapt to the surroundings, giving them effective camouflage. In some breeds of dragons when the dragon is mature, the cells in the scales are able to change color such as a chameleon due to chromatophore, the pigment cells in the scales. This reaction can be caused by emotion (anger, happiness,etc) or by the will of the dragon to change color. If the dragon is angered it can change from its original color to a bright, fierce color such as red, to look more intimidating or during mating rituals, it can flow certain color patterns on its body to attract other dragons. Since dragons are intelligent predators, they can choose which colors to change into to match the exact background it is near including subtle shadow and highlights. It is so good at this, most things would just walk past a 65 foot dragon hiding in the sand. Senses Dragons, as kings of the predators, have excellent senses. Some dragons have special senses like tremorsense. Dragonfear Works normally. Fast healing Because of their very high constitution, they have increased healing rate, but not regeneration. This ability proves useful especially to winged dragons, which would be severely weakened if their damaged wings would not heal quickly. Breeding Dragons are hermafrodites, laying eggs after pregnating itself. Therefore, they are always solitary in nature. Breath weapons Breath weapons are mainly used to disabilize or distract the prey. However, many breath attacks have secondary and even tertiary effects. Immunities and vulnerabilities Each dragon type has its own unique strong and weak points. Including elemental related, they can also be weaker scales in some specific spots, vulnerability to certain spells like charms etc. Flight An immature dragon does not have the strength needed for a vertical jump from flat ground to take off. They will usually stay near higher cliffs to use the heat updrafts to keep aloft. It takes a few years of flying to build the extremely strong flight muscles needed to lift the dragon body from the ground Scales An interesting fact is that the dragon can make the scales stand on end for washing. Also, when angered, the dragon can puff up, spread its scales, and look a lot larger than the dragon actually is. Lifting the scales is also an effective heat reducing element. Making the scales stand on end allows the skin underneath to release heat, thus cooling the large animal down quickly. A favorite past-time of dragons is to stand the scales up and go into a cool pool of water to allow it to run in between the scales and onto the sensitive skin.
halfhand 03-11-06, 06:43 AM	NEW Dragons! Mountain Dragon(Winged) Other names Cloud dragon, Wind dragon, Fang Dragon, Thunder drake, Screaming Death General info Appearance Mountain dragon's scales are dull grey. Once the mature adult stage is reached, the dragon develops silver flecks throughout its scales. Climate/terrain Highest mountains Lair Natural mountain caverns at very high altitudes Personality and habits Mountain Dragons make their homes in the highest of mountain ranges. They prefer rugged territory, and are not affected by the biting cold of high peaks. They have a huge wing span to accommodate flight in the thin air found at high altitude. Mountain Dragon is independent and opinionated with a firm grasp on its desires They are graceful and quick in movement. It is a small species of dragon, but what it lacks in size, it makes up for in speed and ferocity. The name Thunder Drake comes from the Mountain dragons speed at which it flies. It delights of the freedom of flight. It also likes to fly admist thunderstorms and during rainy weather. Mountain Dragon likes cool air and wide open spaces. It comes out at twilight and shies away from direct sunlight. Their voices are as great as thunderclaps; sharp and explosive, or prolonged bass rumbles. Eggs that resemble ordinary rocks Mountain Dragons speak to other dragons and to their own kind using a high pitch keening noise. Abilities Maximium size Huge Flying Expert climber Darkvision (30 feet * age category) Breath weapon Breath weapon; Scream (Cone) Primary Damage; Fear effect to range 20 yards * age category (Will save) Secondary damage; Sonic damage (1d4 * age category, Fort save for half) Tertiary damage; Deafness (Duration 1D4 rounds + age category, Fort save for half) Breath weapon DC's; 10 +2 per age category Special attacks Razorfangs Improved threat range to claws and bite Rending (Size S+) If both front talons hit, extra rending damage (1D4 * age category) Wingstorm (Adult+) Uses wings to create wind effects against foes; Adult to Mature adult Strong wind effects Old to Very old Severe wind effects Ancient to Great wyrm Windstorm effects Special Defences Resistance to cold (1 per age category) Vulnerabilities Wings If wings are hit with called shot (-4 penalty to attack) for 2 points of damage * age category, the dragon has to make a successful Fort save with DC being the damage taken or suffer one damaging effect to its wings. If the dragon takes 2 points of damage * age category from single area attack that includes at least half of its wings, the dragon has to make a successful Fort save with DC being the damage taken or suffer one damaging effect to its wings. One damaging effect to wings reduce the flight category by one step and halves the dragons flight rate. Two damaging effects forces the dragon to land immediately. Ice Dragon(Winged) Other names Frost dragon, Starshield dragon, Moon serpent General info Appearance Ice dragons have white to transparent to silvery scales. Climate/terrain Cold regions Lair Burrowed in ice, often on huge icebergs flowing at the sea, with direct route to water. Personality and habits Ice dragons live in cold places and hibernate most of the time. Though cabaple of flight, they're very cumbersome flyers. Because of their size and stiffness of their wings, they can only fly for short periods of time. They often fly quickly to high altitude and glide slowly downwards, or jump off from high altitudes. They rather swim or burrow into snow and ice and attack creatures from there. Though Ice dragons are considered wise, most stories tell them as evil as well. Ice Dragon is very direct in nature, and does not lend itself towards foolishness or horseplay. Ice dragons are the most likely to attack creatures just to eat them. They are insatiable. They mostly keep their distance from humans and other intelligent humanoids. Ice dragons are nocturnal, coming out only at night. Ice dragons see well at night and can sometimes be seen hunting during a full moon. White, for the East, is a symbol of mourning. White Eastern dragons are said to be an omen of death. Ice dragons are also associated with hunger and greed. Ice dragons are mysterious in nature and seem to have a direct link with the universe about them. Abilities Maximum size Gargantuan Flying Swimming Burrowing Icewalking (no effects from slippery footage) Blindsight (30 feet * age category) Breath weapon Breath weapon; Freezing fog (Cone) Primary Damage; Physical damage (2d4 * age category, Ref save for half) Secondary damage; Slowness (as spell, duration 1 round per age category, Fort save negates) Breath weapon DC's; 10 +2 per age category Special attacks Aura of cold (Adult+) The dragon is surrounded by aura of coldness at all times; -2 to all actions (including attacks) within 5 feet of the dragon. Special Defences Immunity to cold Immunity to bleeding The dragons blood is so thick that it doesn't bleed at all. Vulnerabilities Fire Double damage from fire. When damage of at least 2 points per age category from fire is suffered, the dragon has to quickly cool itself. It does so by lifting its scales momentarily (for one round). During that time, the dragon is highly vulnerable to physical blows to its s soft skin (AC bonus from natural armor halved) The Ice dragon is also afraid of fire. It does not voluntarily come close to fire. Wings If wings are hit with called shot (-4 penalty to attack) for 2 points of damage * age category, the dragon has to make a succesfull Fort save with DC being the damage taken or suffer one damaging effect to its wings. If the dragon takes 2 points of damage * age category from single area attack that includes at least half of its wings, the dragon has to make a succesfull Fort save with DC being the damage taken or suffer one damaging effect to its wings. One damging effect to wings redure the flight category by one step and halvs the dragons flight rate. Two damaging effects forces the dragon to land immediately. Size When the Ice dragon grows to gargantuan size, its wings are no longer capable of supporting its weight. It then lets it's wings slowly degenerate, and starts to hunt more in the water. Sea Dragon (Wingless) Other names Sea Serpents, Deep dragon General info Appearance Sea dragons are the largest of the dragons, and while few have been seen by living beings, legends of the Sea dragons are known far and wide (especially among fisher folk and sailors). Sea Dragons's scales are a dark royal blue with markings and highlights of verdant green. Their eyes are unusually large, dark and glassy. They glitter and move through the water with a speed and grace unmatched by any other creature. Climate/terrain Deep oceans and seas Lair The Sea dragon makes it's home in the farthest reaches of the Deepest Oceans. They seldom (if ever) come to the surface or have any contact with land dwelling creatures. Personality and habits Sea Dragons are said to be mean and overbearing to any and all ships, so they are normally bad tempered and spiteful. Sea Dragons are actually quite shy creatures. While they enjoy feasting on aquatic plant and sharks, Sea Dragons especially appreciate pearls, which they consider to be delicacies. They are thought to use sonar, like the dolphin does, and to be able to swim at extremely high speeds and depths. Sea Dragons are said to have the power to control the tides, create great storms, and whip the sea into a frenzy. Abilities Maximum size Colossal Water breathing Blindsight (60 feet * age category) Breath weapon Breath weapon; Whirlpool (Cone, works only under water) Primary Damage; Physical damage from impact (1d4 * age category, Fort save for half) Secondary damage; Nauseated (Duration 1 round per age category, Fort save negates) Tertiary damage; Knocked back (5 feet per age category, no save) Breath weapon DC's; 10 +2 per age category Special attacks None Special Defences None Vulnerabilities Double damage from fire Swamp Dragon (Wingless) Other names Black dragon, Skull dragon, Scythe Drake, Plight of the Land, Shadow dragon General info Appearance Black with greyish fangs, talons and eyes. Climate/terrain Swamp Lair Partly underground natural caverns in swamps. Personality and habits Dragon is black, even more than that, the dragon absorbs all light that hits it. It is even believed by some that this is how the dragon feeds, by actually swallowing light it comes into contact with. Swamp dragons are thought to be the most evil. They are known as the Plight of the Land. Black is known as a color of evil because it represents night, and in the night you can not see. They live in darkness and shadow, and are masters of stealth. Swamp dragons can blend into darkness like nothing more than a shadow. Swamp dragons are the smallest of the dragons but very quick and endurant. Swamp dragons have terrible bite, which has a nasty tendency to fester even the smallest wound Swamp dragon is surrounded by a smell of rotting vegetation and foul water, with acidic undertone. Although they are not strong fighters, they are extremely swift and tolerant to pain. Swamp dragons has long, metal-like talon that hooks out from its wrists. These large talons are called Scythe talons and the dragon uses them mainly in battles. They also walk on them with their front legs since the 'blade' protrudes about a foot past their bird-like claws. The talon is also some of the strongest bone in any dragon. They don't socialize with hardly anyone, not even their own kind. They're very patient and intelligent hunters. They use scaring tactics to get the prey/enemy off-balance. Abilities Maximum size Large Blindsight (60 feet * age category) Expert swimmer Stealth Breath weapon Breath weapon; Poisonous gases (Contact poison, Cone or Line) Primary Damage; Paralyzation (Duration 1 round per age category, Fort save negates) Secondary damage; Nauseousness (1D6 Str damage, Fort save negates) Breath weapon DC's; 10 +2 per age category Special attacks Festering bite Anyone that suffers damage from Swamp dragons bite attack, can become afflicted by disease; Incubation time 1 day Fort save DC 10 +2 per age category Hair falls of and skin rots (1D6 Cha damage) Scythe talons Swamp dragon has long talons in its wrists. Therefore, its claw attacks inflict double damage Stench When within 5 feet of the dragon; Fort save vs 10 +2 per age category or suffer -2 to all actions because of the nauseating stench of the dragon. Special Defences Evasion Swamp dragon has Evasion as the feat. Burst of speed Double movement for 5 rounds Fatigued for 10 rounds (-4 to Str and Con) Rage When reduced to half or less hit points, the Swamp dragon enters into rage. The rage has no negative effects afterwards. +2 to Str and Con (+1 to attacks and damage, +1 temporary Hp per HD) +1 to will saves -2 to AC Duration; Con +3 Immunity to poisons Vulnerabilities Cold Double damage from cold Also, the dragon suffers the effects of Slow for one round if it suffers cold damage of at least 2 points per age category. Desert Dragon (Wingless) Other names Sand dragon, Sun drake General info Appearance Desert Dragons are covered in tough tan skin with orange highlights. Brilliant green eyes with flecks of yellow and blue. The legs are on the sides of the dragon. Horn on the nose. Long and powerful tail with bony fangs similar to horn. Climate/terrain Desert Lair Desert Dragons primarily lives in underground caves and caverns, but has been known to build it's home by burrowing into the sand and heating the inner walls until they turn to glass. Personality and habits Desert Dragons are so well camouflaged in their home habitat that they are often nearly invisible while approaching, except for their brilliant green eyes with flecks of yellow and blue. Desert dragons are among the most dangerous of all the dragons. They live in packs and choose their leaders by fierce battles that often result in the death of one combatant. Abilities Maximium size gargantuan Burrowing Blindsight (30 feet * age category) Breath weapon Breath weapon; Hot wind and sand (Cone) Primary damage; Physical damage, burn and impact damage from the hot sand that skins out the flesh (1d6 * age category, Ref save for half) Secondary damage; Knockdown from the wind (Fort save negates) Tertiary damage; Blindness (Ref save negates) Breath weapon DC's; 10 +2 per age category Special attacks Horn attack Has one extra attack in round with horn. Damage as bite. Swallow If natural 20 is rolled on bite, the creature is swallowed. Enhanced Tail slap One dice category higher damage. Opponent is knocked down if Fort save vs 10 +2 per age category is not made. Special Defences Resistant to fire 10 Vulnerabilities Cold Double damage from cold Also, the dragon suffers the effects of Slow for one round if it suffers cold damage of at least 2 points per age category. Weak and reduced claw attacks Weak claw attacks, because legs are used mostly for burrowing the sand. Damage reduced by one dice category. Also, can attack only with one claw at a a time, because the other legs are needed for balance. Deep Dragon (Wingless) Other names Cavern dragon, Stone dragon, Albino dragon, Blood dragon General info Appearance The Deep Dragon varies in color, ranging from a dark grey to nearly white. It's scale texture is stone like, and often it's coloring will actually resemble marble, granite or some other indigenous rock. The legs are on the sides of the dragon. Climate/terrain Underground caverns Lair Underground Personality and habits Reclusive. Abilities Maximum size large Burrowing Blindsight (60 feet * age category) Breath weapon Breath weapon, Acidic spit (Line) Primary Damage; Physical damage from acid burns (1D8 * age category, Ref save for half) Breath weapon DC's; 10 +2 per age category Special attacks Blood drain Grapples, bites, holds on the bite Drains 1D6 Con per round Maddening wails Will save or 1d6 Wis damage Range; double breath weapons range. Special Defences Acidic blood If hit in melee, opponents within 5 feet of the dragon suffer 1D8 damage, Ref save for half. Burst of speed Double movement for 5 rounds Fatigued for 10 rounds (-4 to Str and Con) Vulnerabilities Sensitive to light Bright light causes -2 penalty to attacks, saves and AC. Lake Dragon (Wingless) Other names Water drake, Silver dragon, Mist Dragon General info Appearance Silvery blue scales. Silver eyes and tongue. Lake dragons are the most beautiful of all the dragons. Climate/terrain Lakes Lair Deepest parts of the lake. Personality and habits Lake dragons seldom leave their cave. They almost always hibernate and hide. They are most active when lake is covered in mist during spring. Lake dragons are the most peaceful of all the dragons. They eat mostly fish. Abilities Maximum size huge Blindsight (60 feet * age category) Water breathing Swimming Breath weapon Breath weapon, Euphoria gas (Cone) Primary Damage; Dazed for 1 round per age category, Will save negates Secondary damage; Hampers vision as Fog cloud spell Breath weapon DC's; 10 +2 per age category Special attacks None Special Defences None Vulnerabilities Fire Double damage from fire. When damage of at least 2 points per age category from fire is suffered, the dragon has to quickly cool itself. It does so by lifting its scales momentarily (for one round). During that time, the dragon is highly vulnerable to physical blows to its s soft skin (AC bonus from natural armor halved) Cold The dragon suffers the effects of Slow for one round if it suffers cold damage of at least 2 points per age category.
Ozymandias V. 03-11-06, 10:23 AM	I believe he was commenting on the fact that it would be "reTHOUGHT", not "reTHINKED". (GrammarNazi strikes again!)
ubernex 03-11-06, 12:44 PM	I believe he was commenting on the fact that it would be "reTHOUGHT", not "reTHINKED". That's what I would have thought as well. Odd word usage tends to be the norm in-thread, but it really "pops" in the title. On the otherhand, I read through some of the reimaged dragons here and kind of got a kick out of some of them. Keeping everything by the rules I think I'll have to confuse the heck out of my players in the next dragon encounter with a couple metabreath feats combined with a simple low level disguise-type spell. PC: Why is the white dragon breathing a cone of fire on us? DM: Muhahaha!
Black Jack Davey 03-11-06, 03:38 PM	I would have gone with Rethought or Redesigned or, better yet Revamped. Then again, this isn't my thread. If you liked Rethinked that's what the name shall be. As I said before, when you apparently weren't finished, I like your ideas. I always like the changing of the standard dragons. I also like your new dragon ideas. By chance, I have also been working on a Mountain Dragon for about a week, myself. (It doesn't take me that long to stat them, I'm just working on picture in MS Paint. We all know how that goes.) I am also planning on "Revamping" dragons for my world. Message me if you are interested in exchanging ideas.
Black Jack Davey 03-12-06, 01:38 AM	I would do the same, personally. I wouldn't make them totally unintelligent, but I wouldn't give them a bunch of magic. I think of them more as legendary animals.
Kothardarastrix 03-12-06, 05:16 AM	You have brought the wrath of Kothardarastrix, as son of Garyx I will now prepare the millenia-long ritual it takes to summon my father to destroy your world leaving nothing but magma and ash!
ubernex 03-12-06, 05:44 AM	Whoa... I think some people have a wee too much hostility built up. I actually think these are some pretty decent ideas to run with for Dragons in a low-magic realm. While it does take away some of their magesty, the more predetory "magical beast" dragon idea actually fits the more beastial descriptions of some dragons throughout mythology/history. In a world where even medium magic items are the stuff of legends and wizards number about 3 to a kingdom, maybe only a few "great" dragons ever take on the status of the standard Monster Manual dragon, while most of them tend to be more predatory beasts.
Derren S. 03-12-06, 06:51 AM	Why do this wyvers (I refuse to call them dragons) so many vulnerabilities? Especially the green one? Sorry, but I have the impression that you simply slapped on them whatever came you into mind when writing them without any form of system.
Kothardarastrix 03-12-06, 11:08 AM	I wonder what CR he places his Wyverns at...
Black Jack Davey 03-12-06, 12:05 PM	I always thought that the Monster Manual dragon had too much magic. Like most of D&D.
halfhand 03-13-06, 04:59 AM	You have brought the wrath of Kothardarastrix, as son of Garyx I will now prepare the millenia-long ritual it takes to summon my father to destroy your world leaving nothing but magma and ash! Kothardarastrix; I suggest you go to your RPG store and by a copy of the D&D dungeon masters guide. Oh you have it? Then I suggest you read it. D&D dungeon masters guide, page 6, Introduction; "You get to decide how the rules work, which rules to use, and how strictly to adhere them" D&D dungeon masters guide, page 11, Changing the rules; "Every rule in the PHB was written for a reason. That doesn't mean you can't change them for your own game" It would really make life easier to creative, experienced and intelligent gamers, who would like to change something in the belowed "Holy Books", if people would stop ranting about how nothing must not be changed, for the sake of "game balance" (which doesn't even exist) or for other trivial nonsense.
halfhand 03-13-06, 05:10 AM	Why do this wyvers (I refuse to call them dragons) so many vulnerabilities? Especially the green one? Sorry, but I have the impression that you simply slapped on them whatever came you into mind when writing them without any form of system. Not true. To me, the green dragon is very close to forests and plants. And everyone knows that those are harmed by both fire (or very high heat) and cold (plants whither and die when winter comes). What I didn't take into consideration, was the "game balance". If I would have even tried to make them balanced (which would be a huge waste of time anyway, as no such thing that game balance even exist), they would have come out as dull. The "system" of that you speak of, can be seen, for example, from that almost every dragon has secondary and tertiary breath weapon effects (an idea of which I REALLY like). Also I tried to give each dragon the abilities and powers that I saw fitting for them, and didn't just "slap them". I would especially like to start a conversation of the dragons abilities, and what people think that fits and don't fit each particular dragon.
halfhand 03-13-06, 05:12 AM	I wonder what CR he places his Wyverns at... For what is CR needed for?
Kothardarastrix 03-13-06, 08:27 PM	Oh... I don't know, measuring the creatures ability to stand up against your players and see how much experience they are worth.
Korone 03-13-06, 11:04 PM	These could works for some kind of 'lesser', very adaptable dragons. They could simply be a single race. Well, that's how I would work them out in my campaign, no way I would take the true dragons away. Though, a 'dragon' without wings, isn't a dragon. It is a drake. Unless it is an asian dragon. No ****ing exception. Next, we'll see flurry dragon with feathred wings which look like a giant red fish. What you try to do with dragons are exactly the view I had of them before playing D&D for the first time... which I had lots of difficulty to change. Eh, a dragon breathing something else than fire? What the heck are these things suposed to be? Plus the 'static' form for each color was a problem. Anyway. The 'aura' are interesting. But should get bigger and bigger as the dragon age/get bigger too.
halfhand 03-14-06, 03:43 AM	Oh... I don't know, measuring the creatures ability to stand up against your players and see how much experience they are worth. CR is only usable in determining what monsters to summon with summon monster spells. Even then the CR is no accurate. For example, both tiger and 5-headed hydra has CR 4 SRD 20 (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/monsters.htm) The hydra would kick tigers butt every time, especially because the hydra has fast healing 15. And this is not the only example of how the CR's are inaccurate. CR to determine the challenge for payer Sure CR might be usable for inexperianced DM's to determine the encounter difficulty. But it expects that; - the party consists of four characters (with a mix of spellcasters and missile/melee characters) What about when all the characters are spellcaster and the opponent has high spell resistance? Or when all charcters are melee characters without magical weapons and they face an opponent with immunity/high damage reduction to normal weaponry? The examples of this are endless. Maybe those two will be enough for you? The point is that CR are inaccurate to determine the challenge for the PC's. CR to determine Experience awards Rip off the page from the DM's guide where's the table for determining experience from encounters. You'll need only the following simple guidelines (playtested for four years, works beautifully) The encounter was; Easy, 500 exp for each player (lost about 25% or less of resourcess) Challenging, 1000 exp for each player (lost about 50% or less of resources) Hard, 1500 exp for each player (PC's near death) Very hard / epic, 2000-4000 exp for each player (some/all PC's die) AS used logically for each encounter, these make it very easy to see how many encounters are neede for to reach the next leval and DM can plan his campaign in advance for very far, as he can easily calculate how powerfull the PC's will be after so and so many encounters. For example, I almost always use challenging encounters, which means that 1st lvl character reach the level 2 after one battle, the level 3 after three battles and so on. The advancement is quick at the beginning, but slows a lot afterwards. Using this system my players advanded from level 1 to level 19 in three years of gaming time (the games we're held about once a week for 5 hours), which I think is appropriate. I also give some exp at the end of each game session for roleplaying (indivudually, about 200 to 500 exp) and for achieving goals (about 1000-2000 exp for each player)
halfhand 03-14-06, 04:02 AM	Though, a 'dragon' without wings, isn't a dragon. It is a drake. Unless it is an asian dragon. No ****ing exception. Next, we'll see flurry dragon with feathred wings which look like a giant red fish. I think this thread might be a bit too much for you to handle. Why don't you go and discuss of something important and relevant, like "The sorcerer/elf/whatever is broken" or "How to calculate experience lost for these new magical items". I'm sure your talents would be better used in those kind of threads, than wasting your precious time to answering threads like these. What you try to do with dragons are exactly the view I had of them before playing D&D for the first time... which I had lots of difficulty to change. Interesting. I came up with these ideas for dragons after 15 years of playing D&D. Draconomicon and some web sites we're a big inspitation for me to make even the basic dragons way more interesting. With basic rules some dragons just have a bit more HP's, AC, ability scores, etc. than others, and different kind of breath weapon. That's pretty dull, if you ask me. Eh, a dragon breathing something else than fire? What the heck are these things suposed to be? Do I get this right? In your game you only use dragos that breath fire? It's not a bad idea but kinda limited and boring, if you ask me. Anyway. The 'aura' are interesting. But should get bigger and bigger as the dragon age/get bigger too. I like it too, thank you. And as you have propably noticed, I have not made any actual stats yet, because I'd like to hear ideas like these and improve those basic ideas for the dragons. The aura could be something like 5 feet for adult to old dragons, 10 feet for very old to ancient and 15 feet for wyrm and great wyrm.
Korone 03-14-06, 01:12 PM	Do I get this right? In your game you only use dragos that breath fire? It's not a bad idea but kinda limited and boring, if you ask me. You got it wrong, that's how I had them in mind before. No way I'll only use firebreathing dragons in my campaing. I think this thread might be a bit too much for you to handle. Why don't you go and discuss of something important and relevant, like "The sorcerer/elf/whatever is broken" or "How to calculate experience lost for these new magical items". I'm sure your talents would be better used in those kind of threads, than wasting your precious time to answering threads like these. So, I'll simply rewrite that, in an other way. You only prove what can be seen with a high majority of peoples who want to 'recreate' things. Although they may have good ideas for certain things, they manage to put mindless stuff in the concept that completely scrap the thing.