Dragons with Leadership [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dragons with Leadership [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BelRex
08-23-04, 11:07 AM Ok, I have a question. I haven't really looked into creatures with Leadership before today. When I was thumbing through my Draconomican I ran into the example in the back of the book of the dragon with a Leadership score of 61. My question I think, does leadership for dragons(and other creatures with an LA), get based off their total ELC? Otherwise, how do you account for their high score? Thanks for your help.
obrysii
08-23-04, 06:00 PM Most dragons beyond the Juvinile age do not have a level adjustment, and so it must be factored on other things.

I am not very familiar with the Leadership feat, so I can't help you much otherwise.
Almast
08-23-04, 06:40 PM It's their HD. Hit die count as levels in a lot of cases; determining leadership is no exception. So, you would take their HD as their level, and then use their charisma, plus any feats involved. I think salt-mine boy had epic leadership, but I'm not sure.
He also took a hit for killing several of his cohorts. Go Big Blue, huh?
BelRex
08-23-04, 07:56 PM Well that's one of the reasons I'm asking, he has 39HD, and a Cha modifier of +6. That's 45, plus I think +2 for a stronghold, +1 for special power, great renown +2(maybe). So that's 50, where does he get his other 11 points? I didn't see where he had epic leadership, but how would that help him?
Almast
08-23-04, 09:49 PM Good point. I guess in my skim through, the 39 HD just seemed to account for it (Cause, I mean, 39 is a lot.) I would probably say that he gets more than +1 from having special power, and more from great renown. I'd probably also think some of it comes from wealth, I guess.
He doesn't have epic leadership, which is weird - I thought he did. I need to read things closer.
Now I'm as stumped as you are. I think my best bet for "digesting" this stat-hole is to say that there are special bonuses from killing an old lord, and so on, that arn't directly covered. Or, the designers did what I did when I first read through his stat block.
"Hey, what should this blue dragon's leadership score be?"
"What's his HD?"
"39."
"Eh, 60 something sounds good."
Probably an estimation from an epic player? I mean, by level 39, you probably have 30-ish charisma, and some special boosts (stronghold, being an epic character, so on) and they just estimated.
BelRex
08-23-04, 09:53 PM Well, all I can think of is that they used it's ELC. From one of the books, it has an Ancient Silver Dragon as I think, level 44. So I guess a Great wyrm blue could be around level 50ish. Other than that, we'd have to ask the designers.
Almast
08-23-04, 10:06 PM I guess I'll go with ECL use too, then. Sorry I couldn't be of any help. *scratches head*
You know, if I had that awesome of a leadership score, I'd get a half-dragon for my cohort. There has to be some leadership bonus for makin' 'em.
BelRex
08-23-04, 10:33 PM Maybe you could apply dragon cohort to it, and raise the bonus to +5 perhaps?
Derren S.
08-24-04, 06:18 AM When the HD replace the level some strange things might happen.
A adult black dragon CR 11 could have a lvl 17 cohort and a red great wyrm CR 26 a lvl 38 cohort. Bad news for all dragon slayer.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BelRex 08-23-04, 11:07 AM	Ok, I have a question. I haven't really looked into creatures with Leadership before today. When I was thumbing through my Draconomican I ran into the example in the back of the book of the dragon with a Leadership score of 61. My question I think, does leadership for dragons(and other creatures with an LA), get based off their total ELC? Otherwise, how do you account for their high score? Thanks for your help.
obrysii 08-23-04, 06:00 PM	Most dragons beyond the Juvinile age do not have a level adjustment, and so it must be factored on other things. I am not very familiar with the Leadership feat, so I can't help you much otherwise.
Almast 08-23-04, 06:40 PM	It's their HD. Hit die count as levels in a lot of cases; determining leadership is no exception. So, you would take their HD as their level, and then use their charisma, plus any feats involved. I think salt-mine boy had epic leadership, but I'm not sure. He also took a hit for killing several of his cohorts. Go Big Blue, huh?
BelRex 08-23-04, 07:56 PM	Well that's one of the reasons I'm asking, he has 39HD, and a Cha modifier of +6. That's 45, plus I think +2 for a stronghold, +1 for special power, great renown +2(maybe). So that's 50, where does he get his other 11 points? I didn't see where he had epic leadership, but how would that help him?
Almast 08-23-04, 09:49 PM	Good point. I guess in my skim through, the 39 HD just seemed to account for it (Cause, I mean, 39 is a lot.) I would probably say that he gets more than +1 from having special power, and more from great renown. I'd probably also think some of it comes from wealth, I guess. He doesn't have epic leadership, which is weird - I thought he did. I need to read things closer. Now I'm as stumped as you are. I think my best bet for "digesting" this stat-hole is to say that there are special bonuses from killing an old lord, and so on, that arn't directly covered. Or, the designers did what I did when I first read through his stat block. "Hey, what should this blue dragon's leadership score be?" "What's his HD?" "39." "Eh, 60 something sounds good." Probably an estimation from an epic player? I mean, by level 39, you probably have 30-ish charisma, and some special boosts (stronghold, being an epic character, so on) and they just estimated.
BelRex 08-23-04, 09:53 PM	Well, all I can think of is that they used it's ELC. From one of the books, it has an Ancient Silver Dragon as I think, level 44. So I guess a Great wyrm blue could be around level 50ish. Other than that, we'd have to ask the designers.
Almast 08-23-04, 10:06 PM	I guess I'll go with ECL use too, then. Sorry I couldn't be of any help. scratches head You know, if I had that awesome of a leadership score, I'd get a half-dragon for my cohort. There has to be some leadership bonus for makin' 'em.
BelRex 08-23-04, 10:33 PM	Maybe you could apply dragon cohort to it, and raise the bonus to +5 perhaps?
Derren S. 08-24-04, 06:18 AM	When the HD replace the level some strange things might happen. A adult black dragon CR 11 could have a lvl 17 cohort and a red great wyrm CR 26 a lvl 38 cohort. Bad news for all dragon slayer.