Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Romulus LoneWolf 04-06-04, 07:59 PM	One thing I've been thinking about concerning Dragons is how to handle them efficiently in a campaign world. Now, some folks might just dump generic dragons in their campaign worlds whenever they wanna make their players sweat. but I think dragons deserve better. In all classic myths, dragons were never just generic monsters, but were iconic, well-known and feared Named adversaries... Rather then just calling a dragon "The Red Dragon from the fanged mountain" and making him an undestinct dragon, folks would call him "Fireclaw of the fanged mountain", and surround him with some folklore/tales about his past involving the community. Such an "Area of Renown" would only increase with the dragon's age and size; while a Medium-sized, Young Dragon might only be known and feared by the villages living close to it's lakeside lair, an Ancient Dragon might be known throughout the kingdom, it's name spoken of in old stories...
Joren 04-07-04, 06:37 AM	In my games I've always given the dragons a personality. Currently, the adventuring party i'm running has made good friends with a Brass dragon named Versyn who's a bit of a loveable rogue, even if he talks for hours on end about the most trivial of stories. He's set himself up as a protector of a small trading town in return for gold and goods to add to his hoard. He's well known by the local townsfolk, traders that come and go to the town and the local bandits that he comes down on from time to time. This despite being just an adult Dragon and not incredibly powerful. On the other hand, I previously ran a campaign where an ancient female Green dragon named Solgrace was involved. She lived in a mountain retreat far away from civilisation, preying on the few unfortunate individuals unlucky enough to try and travel through 'her' forest. Which was everything green within view of her lair. The PCs made the mistake of trying to deal with her, and one of the party ended up as her eyes and ears :) Instead of making herself well known, she would enslave humanoids with a magical ritual and have them work for her gathering treasure/information. So despite her being far more ancient and powerful than Versyn she was far less well known. A few tales from travellers that had seen her or managed to escape her wrath being told in the local inns and taverns. "I hear a legend of a great green dragon prowls the North. All who come within her sight are snatched away and never seen again. Few of those that tread within the boundries of Elgrin forest ever return. Those that return are said to never be the same." Dragons are usually rare encounters within a game, and I think it's worth fleshing them out with a small background and personality. It really adds something to the encouter. The amount of renown the dragon has need not depend entirely on it's age and size though, but what it has done in life.
Ceran 04-07-04, 12:00 PM	I love writing history like that (: If there's a dragon nearby, just head over to the local inn, and you'll hear all about it. Of course, no one said the drunks over there got it all right eh? I still grin when I think about the time, my party had heard of a dangerous large green dragon in a nearby forest... It was a wyrmling, but the commoners it had attacked, thought it very dangerous *g* Err, right, a bit off topic there. Anyway, I really like fleshing them out, I do this with most monsters. If I place one where the PC's will encounter them, I always ask myself; "Why is this monster here?" If I don't have an answer, I make up something else. Dragons really make the best NPC's too! ;)
MrFahrenheit 04-07-04, 02:26 PM	This is a very interesting post, considering how some armies will use dragons as mounts for entire divisions. Granted most of these dragons are anywhere from young to adult, and the more advanced dragons serve in their own right, but it just seems like THOSE SPECIFIC dragons used as mounts by the armies are so populous, while dragons not used by armies (on either side) are rare occurances. Anyone who's ever read Dragonlance will understand what I mean. The armies of the Dark Queen, and indeed, in the latter days the Knights of Neraka would always use red or blue mounts (usually blue, but reds weren't uncommon...especially prior to the War of Souls), and the good guys (especially during the War of the Lance and the Chaos War, and at the end of the War of Souls) would always use gold and silver (though mainly silver) dragons as mounts/cohorts. Black dragons didn't serve well in the dark armies as they were too selfish. Bronze dragons seemed to miss out from most of the fighting too - which didn't make a lot of sense. White dragons were too stupid and green dragons were "betrayed" by Takhisis, if memory serves me correct. Then the brass and copper dragons just didn't participate...odd considering it was their eggs that were most often stolen for the Corruptions but oh well. So, you had red & blue vs gold & silver...where was everyone else? The only other dragons that were referred to were specific ones! I think they can serve both as random encounters (eg, young adult white dragons serving frost giants) and planned events (eg, the ancient black dragon who has claimed the swamp and all adjacent areas as his own).
hiryuu 04-07-04, 09:55 PM	Actually, note how in (European) legends, note how even though they were feared adversaries, they were still big dumb animals. D&D dragons have little or nothing to do with real-world European dragon legends. Asian "dragons" are completely different, and I consider them something else entirely - it's like calling an orchid a rose. Dragonlance also has little bearing on standard D&D - there's a dragon under every friggin' rock there. I handle dragons not as actual creatures, but as manifested "forces of nature" - they're not really "real," they don't typically have hoards, and they don't breed. Solves the breeding dragon probem, the food problem, and the physics problem they present (that is, they're "powered" by subconscious emanations from the coterminous plane, making them a sort of walking magical node). Note also that this has the added bonus of making every dragon unique.
strenoth 04-07-04, 10:37 PM	dragons are populous enough in my campaign they are both. if a dragon is a BBEG or a specific NPC, it'll have tailored stats and history. If you manage to make it to the flying city where the you can find the Thunder Dragons (I don't use the standard species, I have my own), well, when a good quarter of the population is dragons, i'm not gonna stat out all of them! So if some REALLY stupid character (would have to be evil) was to attack a random dragon int he city, i'd use standard stats for that dragon.. and an elite set with equipment for the dragon guards who come rushing in... :D just think about dragons who trained to work as a team.. a dragon-[divine caster], a dragon-sorcerer, and a front-line of dragon-paladins and dragon-fighters... oh, and then the dragon you haven't seen yet. that's right, why not a dragon-rogue? :angel: yeah, dead people. :schemes:
MrFahrenheit 04-07-04, 11:05 PM	Hmm I take it the dragons in that city are all good? Heh that'd be interesting for a group of good dragons...with a CR each of 40: -An ancient brass dragon (20) with 20 levs in bard. -A very old bronze dragon (20) with 20 levs in paladin. -A very old copper dragon (20) with 20 levs in rogue. -An old gold dragon (21) with 19 levs in wizard. -An old silver dragon (20) with 20 levs in cleric (of Tamara, perhaps?). Or you could make the gold dragon the undisputed party leader by giving him the full 20 levs in wizard. I think about this too much!
strenoth 04-07-04, 11:18 PM	i'd think level sin sorcerer would be usually preffered, since the sorc levels stack with the racially granted sorc levels... but yes, most of the dragons in that city are good. Evil dragons, especially chaotic ones, don't seem very good at making their own cities, but I'll let you gues where the Sandstone Dragon desert gets it's name from... or the Alcore Jungle (hint: one of the evil races of dragons is called the Alcore Dragons, and they live in jungles... :) )
MrFahrenheit 04-07-04, 11:47 PM	Hmm blue and green, respectively? lol An idea of a story I always had even before I got into D&D as a "real life" game (but had read a few Dragonlance novels and played the old late 80's/early 90's computer games...1e, baby! Gnome wizards? Why that's impossible! Clerics are effected by their alignment? And they have deities? Nawwwwwww! Okay ANYWAYS....) was that there was a benevolent necromancer who ruled over a vast kingdom and the entire military were under his control and were all undead...either they were maximum offense criminals and soldiers from armies that invaded the country (generally turned into zombies/skeletons/ghouls) or willing men and women who were generally turned into good vampires (who served in the intelligence/commando service) or liches (who served as officers in the main army), and this necromancer had an amulet made which could cast any spell in the school of necromancy. When the king died, all of his undead disentegrated, leading to catastrophe and the fall of the nation - there were no living people in the military...the kingdom relied for decades on this grand army of undeath. But the king had five advisors. A great wyrm of each metallic kind, who fled the nation upon its fall, and upon burying the necromancer king (far away from the destruction of his former kingdom) with his amulet, turned themselves into good dracoliches, so they could forever guard his well hidden resting place. (In the middle of an unkown valley. The dracoliches keep constant watch over it from caves in the mountains surrounding it and can tell the difference between kids playing ball in the valley and thieves and the like) The campaign culminates with the PCs teaming up with the good dracoliches in a massive battle against would-be stealers of the amulet, which would grant unlimited Necromancy power. (obviously, would be an epic campaign)
obrysii 04-09-04, 10:58 AM	My campaign is based around the aftermath of a thousand year dragon war, where the metallic dragons fought the chromatic dragons. The most prominate dragon was a Great Golden Wyrm -though few knew it's name- it was the dragon which defeated a good deal of the evil dragons (including a Great Red Wyrm or two). It had long been a protector of the north since it was an Adult dragon, and now that it was at the pinical of it's strength, it fought a considerable amount. Anyway, in the campaign there is an Ancient Black Dragon hellbent on destorying the north, and he's plotting against the Great Gold Wyrm. Well, early in the campaign a Bronze Dragon appeared to the group (he was guiding them north to meet the Queen who foresaw all this stuff) told them that the Great Gold Wyrm had entered his twilight (4,400 years old) and was now on the verge of death. Those are the two most prominate dragons in my campaign, though dragons are very plentiful (the Thousand Years' war produced more dragons then it killed).