Dragonslayer - Overpowered? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dragonslayer - Overpowered? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
fiskpaj
03-14-04, 07:20 AM When i first look at it, the Dragonslayer prestige class seems to be terribly overpowered. Even if you never met a dragon, you could easily use enough to become better than a normal fighter. Damage reduction, elemental resistance vs all types, caster levels, two good saves, d10, 2 feats, why wouldn't you take this prestige class?
TheGreenGriffon
03-14-04, 07:31 AM Even with their pretige class being powerful there are more than likely few Dragonslayers that live very long, the chances of constant victories over Dragons is a slim one, eventually your gonna run into one that will take you down. Thats one reason to maybe not take the pretige class is the job hazzards.

Number 2 is in my campaigns taking ANY new class requires training from a individual who is two levels in the class in question at least. The players should have to locate a person to train them in a new class with new abilities and as stated above Dragonslayers are probably rare. Also would they be willing to take time out of their slaying to train a newbie when he wants it. The player may have to even swear an oath to continue the work his master teaches him.
fiskpaj
03-14-04, 07:47 AM True, roleplaying restrictions could balance this class. But I still see some problems, if this class serves as an example for other classes. All other specialist prestige classes, who specializes in a type of creature loses something when fighting other creatures. This class is not just better than a regular fighter when you fight dragons, it is better when you fight almost any other damage dealing(damage reduction, d10), savingthrow-enforcing(two good saves) or elemental-damage dealing (elemental resistance 10) creature as well!
This class must have some weak spot!
gradea
03-14-04, 05:14 PM id have given it a clerics BAB and d8s
TheGreenGriffon
03-14-04, 09:20 PM Give the class a disadvanatge. Perhaps any Dragonic creature that spots the Dragonslayer automatically knows he is a Dragonslayer despite how the PC is dressed. You could also add penalties to Charimsa checks with such creatures or could decide Draconic creatures automatically start Hostile towards the character.
Ogre4Hire
03-14-04, 10:58 PM try adding this:

Draconic Infamy: A dragonslayer has a terrible reputation regarding dragons. He takes a penalty equal to his Dragonslayer level on all Charisma Based skills except Intimidate in checks made regarding dragons or their allies (any creature that works with dragons regardless of that creature's type).
implord
03-16-04, 10:34 AM p.70, the monstrous feat Endure Blows lists a prerequisite of 19 Con. This does not tally with the chart on the previous page, which lists a prerequisite of 13 Con. (I think 19 is more likely, though.)

[edit] oops, wrong thread! This was intended for the potential errata thread, must have hit next thread rather than next page... some kind moderator move it, please?
NorthSaber
03-16-04, 05:37 PM Meh, it's not that bad. Take for example a Fighter who takes this class. He loses the bonus feats (total of 5 over the 10 levels), doesn't get the caster levels, but in return he gets the good Will saves and the class abilities (most of which only work on dragons). Seems pretty balanced so far. (Also remember that he has to burn two feats to get into this class, although both are fairly useful anyway.)

Now let's take a full caster who takes this class, say a sorcerer. He gets a better attack bonus, good Fort saves and a bunch more hit points - and the special abilities - but assuming a sorcerer 10 / dragonslayer 10, he's giving up access to 8th and 9th level spells. A very high price in my opinion.

Also, consider that spells and items can easily grant energy resistance of 5 against all (or at least most) of the elements, and a resistance of 12 can be given with a 2nd level spell (IIRC). The true DR is very nice, no argument there.

So really, only characters who have already multi-classed between a melee class and a caster class (or clerics or 3.5 bards) really benefit from this class in a major way. Even clerics and bards would miss out on their highest level spells. I have to admit I haven't played in near-epic levels, but my impression has been that the high level spells are where the true power lies at those levels, not in a DR of 3/-.

(Stilll, it is a very nice class. :D )
cowdragon
03-17-04, 03:21 AM In my experience it is only really good for the 1st level. If you want a full caster, take one level in it, then one level of spellsword. Ta-da! You can now wear armour and cast spells. Of course...you could have just been a battle sorcerer then, but you wouldn't be able to use as many weapons. I suppose it comes down to style. I always wanted to play a paladin/dragon slayer type before.

The Cowdragon :mage:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
fiskpaj 03-14-04, 07:20 AM	When i first look at it, the Dragonslayer prestige class seems to be terribly overpowered. Even if you never met a dragon, you could easily use enough to become better than a normal fighter. Damage reduction, elemental resistance vs all types, caster levels, two good saves, d10, 2 feats, why wouldn't you take this prestige class?
TheGreenGriffon 03-14-04, 07:31 AM	Even with their pretige class being powerful there are more than likely few Dragonslayers that live very long, the chances of constant victories over Dragons is a slim one, eventually your gonna run into one that will take you down. Thats one reason to maybe not take the pretige class is the job hazzards. Number 2 is in my campaigns taking ANY new class requires training from a individual who is two levels in the class in question at least. The players should have to locate a person to train them in a new class with new abilities and as stated above Dragonslayers are probably rare. Also would they be willing to take time out of their slaying to train a newbie when he wants it. The player may have to even swear an oath to continue the work his master teaches him.
fiskpaj 03-14-04, 07:47 AM	True, roleplaying restrictions could balance this class. But I still see some problems, if this class serves as an example for other classes. All other specialist prestige classes, who specializes in a type of creature loses something when fighting other creatures. This class is not just better than a regular fighter when you fight dragons, it is better when you fight almost any other damage dealing(damage reduction, d10), savingthrow-enforcing(two good saves) or elemental-damage dealing (elemental resistance 10) creature as well! This class must have some weak spot!
gradea 03-14-04, 05:14 PM	id have given it a clerics BAB and d8s
TheGreenGriffon 03-14-04, 09:20 PM	Give the class a disadvanatge. Perhaps any Dragonic creature that spots the Dragonslayer automatically knows he is a Dragonslayer despite how the PC is dressed. You could also add penalties to Charimsa checks with such creatures or could decide Draconic creatures automatically start Hostile towards the character.
Ogre4Hire 03-14-04, 10:58 PM	try adding this: Draconic Infamy: A dragonslayer has a terrible reputation regarding dragons. He takes a penalty equal to his Dragonslayer level on all Charisma Based skills except Intimidate in checks made regarding dragons or their allies (any creature that works with dragons regardless of that creature's type).
implord 03-16-04, 10:34 AM	p.70, the monstrous feat Endure Blows lists a prerequisite of 19 Con. This does not tally with the chart on the previous page, which lists a prerequisite of 13 Con. (I think 19 is more likely, though.) [edit] oops, wrong thread! This was intended for the potential errata thread, must have hit next thread rather than next page... some kind moderator move it, please?
NorthSaber 03-16-04, 05:37 PM	Meh, it's not that bad. Take for example a Fighter who takes this class. He loses the bonus feats (total of 5 over the 10 levels), doesn't get the caster levels, but in return he gets the good Will saves and the class abilities (most of which only work on dragons). Seems pretty balanced so far. (Also remember that he has to burn two feats to get into this class, although both are fairly useful anyway.) Now let's take a full caster who takes this class, say a sorcerer. He gets a better attack bonus, good Fort saves and a bunch more hit points - and the special abilities - but assuming a sorcerer 10 / dragonslayer 10, he's giving up access to 8th and 9th level spells. A very high price in my opinion. Also, consider that spells and items can easily grant energy resistance of 5 against all (or at least most) of the elements, and a resistance of 12 can be given with a 2nd level spell (IIRC). The true DR is very nice, no argument there. So really, only characters who have already multi-classed between a melee class and a caster class (or clerics or 3.5 bards) really benefit from this class in a major way. Even clerics and bards would miss out on their highest level spells. I have to admit I haven't played in near-epic levels, but my impression has been that the high level spells are where the true power lies at those levels, not in a DR of 3/-. (Stilll, it is a very nice class. :D )
cowdragon 03-17-04, 03:21 AM	In my experience it is only really good for the 1st level. If you want a full caster, take one level in it, then one level of spellsword. Ta-da! You can now wear armour and cast spells. Of course...you could have just been a battle sorcerer then, but you wouldn't be able to use as many weapons. I suppose it comes down to style. I always wanted to play a paladin/dragon slayer type before. The Cowdragon :mage: