Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lilt 05-23-04, 07:13 PM	With the removal of restrictions on a wish spell's upper-limit of magic item creation, replacing it with an XP cost, what is to stop a character wishing for a genie to create a stupidly powerful item? After-all: the spell-like ability has no XP component so there is theoretically no limit on how powerful an item it could create. Am I missing some other limiting factor? If not: Can anyone think of reasonable restrictions for such abilities?
Uratoh 05-23-04, 07:23 PM	well, if the PC doesnt specificly say not to make it cursed or add otherwise undesireable abilities...
TheMoose 05-23-04, 08:02 PM	and clarifies that they are supposed to get the item, and not the uber collosal dragon of death... and makes sure the efreet is not giving them a paladin or some other persons sword... and most of all, are prepared for the efreet to go "I don't grant wishes" then sure! REMEMBER GOOD FOLKS, NOBLE DJINN GRANT WISHES!!!!! Read the entry for the Djinni please...pretty please?
Lilt 05-23-04, 08:12 PM	True, but the player can always specify that it's not cursed and wouldn't have any undesireable qualities. I'm sure that Profession (Lawyer) or Knowledge (Law) would help you there. The Spellcraft, Knowledge (Arcana), Craft, and Appraise skills also probably cover the terminology to describe the exact features of an item. After-all: if it is in-character knowledge that bonuses of the same type don't stack, then people must have some concept and technique for describing the difference between inherrent, enchantement, and luck bonuses ETC. @TheMoose: Noble Djinn are nice, but they don't come out of an Efreeti Bottle :p
Lilt 05-23-04, 08:22 PM	This topic is going rapidly in the direction of the wish discussion that I'm sure everyone has had counteless times. It looks like it's only going to be a matter of time before someone warns me that the lord of the city of brass will have my character over a barrel for messing with his Efreeti. I'd prefer it if people could just assume that a character can describe what they want in such a manner that the Efreeti can't twist it and discuss the posible limitations of the spell from there. Of course if I've missed something then please point it out to me. I was thinking that this thread was the best for discussing the fact that it's a spell-like-ability-specific-problem from the abilities described in the Monster Manual. If this is still the wrong forum then I'll switch the forum to the spell-discussion forum.
TheMoose 05-23-04, 08:28 PM	I spend to much time tinkering with monsters to fit my liking...so much time i almost completely ignore the parts of entries i dont like, i've become VERY good at it Me: Efreet have wishes, not any more! *yoink* Efreet: But now i am a weak and powerless beast Me: Haha...i'll just throw you 10 levels of sorcerer! Efreet: But..But, WISH! Me: Yeah...when a human makes you their SLAVE! Efreet: ...Touche *any inconcistancies are because of a rare disease known as selective reading and the fact that this comes from my rather shumbled "i havent slept for 36 hours" brain*
was_fired 05-23-04, 09:21 PM	A nice houserule is that it drains XP rather than being an XP component. That way efreet, solars, and various other creatures with it as spell-like abilities can be explained as not having +3,000 Everything-Greater Bane, Vorpal, Keen, Every Elemental Beyond Epic Bursting, natural 1 hitting, swords of doom.
Tevish Szat 05-23-04, 09:40 PM	Simple: Efreet love to pervert wishes And put the limit on magic items back...
Klingon 05-24-04, 12:58 AM	On creating uber-powerful items: The Wish spell doesn't simply create anything the player can describe. The magic has limits. If the item asked for exceeds the power of the spell (DM's call), the DM can be generous, and give him the item, with some drawbacks, or he can rule that the item is simply beyond the power of the wish, and the wish fails. As an example, wishing for a Manual of Gainful Exercise +2. The wish description stipulates that you can use it to raise your ability one point. Simply wishing for a magic item that will have the same effect but double, would exceed the power of the wish. The player would get a +1 book, or he wouldn't get the book at all, depending on whether the player was trying to get around the oh-so-limiting restrictions on the wish. On wishing for Djinni: Djinni shows up, and says "Hi." Then he leaves. Wish complied with. Player wishes for Djinni to show up and grant him wishes. Djinni shows up, and says he can't wish for more wishes. Sorry. Wish also complied with. Hope this gives you some angles to play with (wishes can easily be the part of the campaign where it relly gets away from you). Best of luck.
Lilt 05-24-04, 05:45 AM	Hmm. The problem is that creating a +5 manual/tome of whatever is within the scope of a single wish spell. One possible way I can think of to limit it is would be to say that you need multiple wish spells to create a magical item as the creature can only use 15000xp per day on wishes. Thus each additional wish used would add 5000xp for the purposes of crafting the item, so 2 wishes could create an item of up-to market price 62.5k, and 3 wishes could create an item of up-to 125k. That still means a +4 manual/tome is within the realm of 3 wishes though. Another way to limit an Efreeti's spells would be to say that the material cost for creating or improving the magical item has caps from other sources. These caps could logically be at either 10k or 25k, treating it as the material component of the spell or the limit of the non-magical gear it can create. That'd limit the value of magic item createable to either 20 or 50k per casting. The 20k limit is interesting, meaning you can't get tomes easily and 3 wishes would get you a +2 tome. The 50k limit is still quite powerful and makes +5 tomes a possibility with 3 wishes.