Post/Author/DateTime	Post
green_yawgmoth 08-10-04, 11:51 PM	This is me and GoodTeletubby's idea for an epic template for the Vampire Lord. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20021018a) A few vampires manage to set themselves apart from the rest of their kind, becoming vampire lords. but a very select few of that group grows to an even greater status among the undead, becoming elder vampires. To become an elder vampire, the vampire lord must have spent at least 250 years as a vampire, have at least 25 HD or class levels, must have created 25 vampires, and survived an assault in daylight. In addition, it must have been subjected to a week's worth of simultaneous rebuking by at least 6 evil clerics, all of which must be at least 6th level, one being at least 16th level. At the end of that week, a Miracle or Wish spell must be cast to transform it into an Elder Vampire. Creating an elder vampire: HD: same as vampire lord, except add +3hp per HD of the base vampire lord. Speed: +10 land speed, fly 120 ft. (perfect). AC: Gains an additional +6 to natural armor. Attacks: Same as base vampire. Special Attacks: As vampire lord, unless noted below. The saving throw, where applicable, is 10 + the vampire lord's class and nonclass HD + the elder vampire's Charisma modifier. Caster level is 20 unless otherwise noted. Domination (Su): As the base vampire lord, except as though by a Dominate Monster spell. Energy Drain (Su): As base vampire, but a living creature hit by an elder vampire's slam attack takes 5 negative levels. Blood Drain (Su): As base vampire, but an elder vampire's blood drain inflicts 1d6+3 points of Constitution drain each round the pin is maintained. Create Spawn: As Vampire Lord, except whenever an Elder Vampire creates a vampire slave, there is a 5% per HD of the creature that it inherits the shadow creature template (Manual of the Planes). Alternate Form (Su): As wildshape by a 21st level druid, at will. May go from one animal to another as a move equivalent action. Children of the Night (Su): As base vampire lord, but treat each use as if affected by the Empower Spell feat. Harm (Sp): May use Harm 2/day (usually used to heal itself). Damage Reduction (Ex): 20/+6. (or 20/holy & silver & epic if playing 3.5e) Fast Healing (Ex): An elder vampire has fast healing 15 as long as it has at least 1hp. It has 48 hours to reach a place of rest (rather than 24 hours) if brought to zero hit points. Additionally, any area that is completely dark can be used as a place of rest. Grapple bonus: Elder vampires are extremely adept at pinning all manner of creatures, giving them a +20 competence bonus to grapple checks. Abilities: Increase from the base vampire lord as follows: Str +4, Dex +6, Int +6, Wis +8, Cha +6. As undead creatures, vampire lords have no Constitution scores. Skills: An elder vampire receives an additional +5 racial bonus to Bluff, Scry, Sense Motive, Diplomacy and Intimidate checks. Feats: Gains Gargantuan wildshape, Colossal wildshape, and Superior Initiative as bonus feats. Turn Resistance: An Elder Vampire has turn resistance +25. Elder Vampire Weaknesses An elder vampire has even fewer weaknesses than a vampire lord. In addition to its ability to handle running water, garlic, holy symbols, cast a reflection, and so on, it takes an even lower penalty in direct sunlight. Under sunlight, it takes a -2 penalty to all ability scores and on all attacks, saves, and skill checks, and cannot use any supernatural powers except telepathy and telekinesis. The only way to make sure an elder vampire does not return is to cut its head from its body, burn the body and head seperately, and spread the body ashes over a fast moving river. Then the head ashes must be placed in an urn filled with a potion of purified cure moderate wounds, and have a consecrated binding spell cast upon it on consecrated ground. The binding spell must have a caster level at least as high as the total caster level of the original rebuking clerics' total. However, if the binding spell is dispelled, the ashes are removed from the potion, dried, and subjected to an unhallow spell on desecrated ground, it can regenerate within a week if placed in a place of rest. CR: same as base vampire lord +5. LA: +12 So how does this look? Any suggestions? Edit for new ideas. :D http://img30.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Black Jack Davey 08-11-04, 12:28 AM	It looks insanely powerful to me. Why do you want to do this? Why not just take a normal vampire and level them up a lot. That would imply experience, therefore probably meaning they are old and really worthy of the term 'elder'. I just think that would be a lot easier and more fair than trying to balance a template like this. Of course, that's just my opinion.
green_yawgmoth 08-11-04, 01:34 AM	Originally posted by Black Jack Davey It looks insanely powerful to me. Why do you want to do this? Why not just take a normal vampire and level them up a lot. That would imply experience, therefore probably meaning they are old and really worthy of the term 'elder'. I just think that would be a lot easier and more fair than trying to balance a template like this. Of course, that's just my opinion. Just felt like making something that could be considered the vampire version of a demilich. I mean, why not just level up a lich a lot instead of making a template? Or give a creature a bunch of class levels instead of the paragon template? I just had an idea, and thought it would be interesting to actually flesh out and get constuctive feedback on. http://img30.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
TheDarkestOfAngels 08-11-04, 02:08 AM	I've always been under the impression that vampires (in D&D, anyway) should have age catagories (and power advancement in relation to said age catagories) like dragons. The vampire, vampire spawn, and vampire lord templates seem to be the only ones in existance though anywhere near that quality. Though your template looks like it'd be about the eldest it can get. Perhaps you should specify how old the vampire has to be before the template can be taken (like the vampire lord template.)
green_yawgmoth 08-11-04, 02:19 AM	I believe I specified an age when I said "To become an elder vampire, the vampire lord must have spent at least 250 years as a vampire..." That's 100 years as a vampire, then 150 as a vampire lord. http://img30.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
TheDarkestOfAngels 08-11-04, 02:22 AM	Originally posted by green_yawgmoth I believe I specified an age when I said "To become an elder vampire, the vampire lord must have spent at least 250 years as a vampire..." That's 100 years as a vampire, then 150 as a vampire lord. http://img30.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif D'oh! I can't believe I missed that. ... we have our good days and our bad ones I suppose.
Black Jack Davey 08-11-04, 02:33 AM	I guess I am not familiar with a demilich. Where can I find this Vampire Lord? I haven't heard of it before. I wish to give you my honest opinion on this now, as I seemed rather rude in my initial post. To do that with any degree of usefulness, I need to have something to compare it to. Especially if that thing is required to gain this template. So, point me in the direction of the Vampire Lord, please.
green_yawgmoth 08-11-04, 04:21 AM	See how the words "Vampire Lord (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20021018a)" are underlined and in blue? That's a link to the article with the Vampire Lord template. Click it, and have fun. ;) Oh, and demilich is in the Epic Level Handbook, page 175, if you can get ahold of one. http://img30.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Black Jack Davey 08-11-04, 01:36 PM	Oh! Blue! Does that mean it's magic? Figures, I've never read the Epic Handbook. Never made it epic, either. I think the game gets a little too cheesey then (but I am not opposed to it, you CAN make it work.)
green_yawgmoth 08-11-04, 10:40 PM	Anyone have any advice? constructive critisizm? Praise? Anything? http://img30.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Kamui 08-11-04, 11:12 PM	Originally posted by green_yawgmoth This is me and GoodTeletubby's idea for an epic template for the Vampire Lord. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20021018a) A few vampires manage to set themselves apart from the rest of their kind, becoming vampire lords. but a very select few of that group grows to an even greater status among the undead, becoming elder vampires. To become an elder vampire, the vampire lord must have spent at least 250 years as a vampire, have at least 25 HD or class levels, must have created 25 vampires, and survived an assault in daylight. Creating an elder vampire: [b]HD: same as vampire lord, except add +3hp per HD of the base vampire lord. Speed: +10 land speed, fly 100 ft. (perfect). AC: Gains an additional +6 to natural armor. Attacks: Same as base vampire. Special Attacks: As vampire lord, unless noted below. The saving throw, where applicable, is 10 + the vampire lord's class and nonclass HD + the elder vampire's Charisma modifier. Caster level is 20 unless otherwise noted. Energy Drain (Su): As base vampire, but a living creature hit by an elder vampire's slam attack takes 4 negative levels. Blood Drain (Su): As base vampire, but an elder vampire's blood drain inflicts 1d6+3 points of Constitution drain each round the pin is maintained. Alternate Form (Su): As wildshape by a 21st level druid, at will. May go from one animal to another as a move equivalent action. Children of the Night (Su): As base vampire lord, but treat each use as if affected by the Empower Spell feat. Harm (Sp): May use Harm 1/day (usually used to heal itself). Damage Reduction (Ex): 20/+6. Fast Healing (Ex): An elder vampire has fast healing 15 as long as it has at least 1hp. It has 48 hours to reach a place of rest (rather than 24 hours) if brought to zero hit points. Grapple bonus: Elder vampires are extremely adept at pinning all manner of creatures, giving them a +10 competence bonus to grapple checks. Abilities: Increase from the base vampire lord as follows: Str +4, Dex +6, Int +4, Wis +6, Cha +6. As undead creatures, vampire lords have no Constitution scores. Skills: A vampire lord receives an additional +10 racial bonus to Scry and Sense Motive checks, and a +20 racial bonus to Diplomacy and Intimidate checks. Feats: Gains Gargantuan wildshape and Colossal wildshape as bonus feats. Turn Resistance: As vampire lord +6. Elder Vampire Weaknesses An elder vampire has even fewer weaknesses than a vampire lord. In addition to its ability to handle running water, garlic, holy symbols, cast a reflection, and so on, it takes an even lower penalty in direct sunlight. Under sunlight, it takes a -2 penalty to all ability scores and on all attacks, saves, and skill checks, and cannot use any supernatural powers except telepathy and telekinesis. The only way to make sure an elder vampire does not return is to cut its head from its body, burn the body and head seperately, and spread the body ashes over a fast moving river. Then the head ashes must be placed in an urn filled with a potion of cure serious wounds, and have a sanctified binding spell cast upon it on consecrated ground. However, if the binding spell is dispelled, the ashes are removed from the potion, dried, mixed with a potion of inflict serious wounds and subjected to an unhallow spell, it can regenerate within a week if placed in a place of rest. CR: +? LA: +? As far as the CR goes...perhaps an additional +3 (me thinks +5 minimum). I also believe that the older a vampire gets the easier it should be for them to return to the "living". I just don't think that a being that powerful would have to go through [i]that[/] much more just to be brought back. As far as ability increases go...I would not have them gain any additional STR or DEX, but they would get +4 to INT and WIS, and +6 CHA in addition to what they have gained thus far. This is due to becoming "Wiser with age". And besides, up to this point, with all of the buffs so far, why wouldn't the older ones strive for being very well rounded? For the skill increases: I would just double (no more, no less) what the Vampire Lord gained an make it stack with its' previous skill buffs. As for the rest of the abilities, just double or x1.5, the outcome of what the Vampire lord could do would be fine. (Note: where this is not applicable, I think you have done a good job filling in the gaps on the special abilities.) Aside from what I stated above, this Elder Vampire Lord is perfect. (Read all of the above as: IMHO)
green_yawgmoth 08-11-04, 11:28 PM	Well, what I was thinking was since it's so hard to kill them, and does involve exalted metamagic, it should be somewhat hard for them to come back if all went well. Maybe drop the potion of ISW? As far as the ability buffs, I did want to stick to the "wiser with age" thing, but still show that they have gotten stronger. Maybe +8 wis and +0 str? The skill buffs, I was thinking of just doing +20 to all and saying "this overlaps with the vampire/lord." Comments? http://img30.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Kamui 08-11-04, 11:38 PM	Originally posted by green_yawgmoth Well, what I was thinking was since it's so hard to kill them, and does involve exalted metamagic, it should be somewhat hard for them to come back if all went well. Maybe drop the potion of ISW? As far as the ability buffs, I did want to stick to the "wiser with age" thing, but still show that they have gotten stronger. Maybe +8 wis and +0 str? The skill buffs, I was thinking of just doing +20 to all and saying "this overlaps with the vampire/lord." Comments? I must have missed the part about exalted metamagic...I don't own that book yet. But yeah, dropping the ISW potion IMO is a step in the right direction. Ability Buffs, in the end its' your call; but I still really feel that the elder vampire should attempt to "round out" so to speak. After looking (again) at both the vampire and vampire lord templates, I think that with all of the ability score buffs they recieve would more than compensate for not giving any skill buffs at all, for any of them. (Once again, that's just me.) But, like I said above, in the end it's your call.
green_yawgmoth 08-12-04, 12:21 AM	Consecrate Spell is the exalted metamagic, on the binding. All it does to the Binding spell is make it a 9th level [good] spell, but I liked the flavor of taking extraordinarily good magic to keep this thing down. Ability/skill buffs, I do somewhat agree with you that they should "round out" their abilities, especially since "most vampire lords tend to take levels in spellcasting classes" (from the vamp. lord article). Maybe just +8 to int, wis, and cha and +5 to the skills. I liked the idea of them being über-charming/impressive (diplomacy, bluff, intimidate) and able to read people better than anything of their kind (sense motive). http://img30.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Kamui 08-12-04, 01:37 AM	I like the idea of vampires being the epitomy of unholyness...and to an extent agree with you on certain "advantages" over normal folk. Perhaps creating a Vampire progression by age is in order (as suggested by TheDarkestOfAngels). I would be willing to help anyone else with a desire to create this type of chart. Aside from that...I guess it would be best not to argue over personal prefrence on the issue at hand...:) If anyone is interested in creating the chart/table, and would like some extra help, eidting, or other; feel free to PM me.
green_yawgmoth 08-12-04, 03:26 AM	Kamui: I just felt I should explain my reasoning behind the numbers. Any rational arguments against those reasons or numbers are what making a thread is about. :) So does anyone have any ideas as to what to set the CR/LA adjustment at? And I'd love to have this age progression posted here, if you want. http://img30.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
GoodTeletubby 08-12-04, 07:20 AM	Originally posted by Kamui As far as ability increases go...I would not have them gain any additional STR or DEX, but they would get +4 to INT and WIS, and +6 CHA in addition to what they have gained thus far. This is due to becoming "Wiser with age". And besides, up to this point, with all of the buffs so far, why wouldn't the older ones strive for being very well rounded? the only problem i have with this is that it breaks with a lot of vampiric tradition. Traditionally, vampires have increased in physical power as they aged as well as mental abilities. Their ties to the energy that drives them strengthen, and so their physical abilities increase too. I'm not saying don't improve their mental stats, just don't leave the physical ones out of it.
Kamui 08-12-04, 11:18 AM	Originally posted by green_yawgmoth Kamui: I just felt I should explain my reasoning behind the numbers. Any rational arguments against those reasons or numbers are what making a thread is about. :) I understand completely, and I totaly agree. But without looking at the other 2 vamp templates, (my bad) it seemed that they would not round out, on stats, at all. However if there was a fourth template, either before or after the Elder vamp lord, they would round out much better. So does anyone have any ideas as to what to set the CR/LA adjustment at? And I'd love to have this age progression posted here, if you want. CR: +4-6 (safe bet, +5) LA: I never quite figured out how to determine these.... Originally posted by GoodTeletubby the only problem i have with this is that it breaks with a lot of vampiric tradition. Traditionally, vampires have increased in physical power as they aged as well as mental abilities. Their ties to the energy that drives them strengthen, and so their physical abilities increase too. I'm not saying don't improve their mental stats, just don't leave the physical ones out of it. As I said above, with an additional template they would be more well rounded. (For lack of a better term) As far as doing something like that, it seems like more trouble than it *could* be worth.:)
green_yawgmoth 08-12-04, 05:52 PM	LA is (according to SS) pretty abstract, but usually for every ability you get, depending on its long term usefulness, gets an LA of +1-3. So I'll take the first crack at it. Beefier blood/energy drain, epic wildshape: +1 Empowered Children of the Night: +1 Increased caster level to special abilities:+1 Harm 1/day: +1 Doubled DR: +1 Better fast healing: +1 Grapple bonus: +1 Ability/skill bonuses, turn resistance: +2 Epic bonus feats: +2 So we have a total of LA +11. Jebus that's high. :/ http://img30.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
TheDarkestOfAngels 08-12-04, 11:04 PM	Originally posted by green_yawgmoth LA is (according to SS) pretty abstract, but usually for every ability you get, depending on its long term usefulness, gets an LA of +1-3. So I'll take the first crack at it. Beefier blood/energy drain, epic wildshape: +1 Empowered Children of the Night: +1 Increased caster level to special abilities:+1 Harm 1/day: +1 Doubled DR: +1 Better fast healing: +1 Grapple bonus: +1 Ability/skill bonuses, turn resistance: +2 Epic bonus feats: +2 So we have a total of LA +11. Jebus that's high. :/ http://img30.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif Ironically, if you're pretty liberal in using the SS method of determining the standard vampire's LA, it's waaay higher than the +8 it was assigned in the 3.5 monster manuel. (and the +5 in the savage species.) If I were you, I wouldn't rely on using the SS method for anything that difficult to measure. (Certain monsters are actually measured accurately under the SS method, but vampires, and others are very difficult to measure using this method. .... so I wouldn't take the SS method for the vampire, vampire lord, or this elder vampire for squat. I'd just slap a best guess and use that.
green_yawgmoth 08-12-04, 11:36 PM	Originally posted by TheDarkestOfAngels Ironically, if you're pretty liberal in using the SS method of determining the standard vampire's LA, it's waaay higher than the +8 it was assigned in the 3.5 monster manuel. (and the +5 in the savage species.) If I were you, I wouldn't rely on using the SS method for anything that difficult to measure. (Certain monsters are actually measured accurately under the SS method, but vampires, and others are very difficult to measure using this method. .... so I wouldn't take the SS method for the vampire, vampire lord, or this elder vampire for squat. I'd just slap a best guess and use that. So what would be your best guess as to what the LA should be for this template? I was thinking +10 or so. http://img30.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
TheDarkestOfAngels 08-13-04, 01:06 AM	Originally posted by green_yawgmoth So what would be your best guess as to what the LA should be for this template? I was thinking +10 or so. http://img30.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif I think +10 is a little much. It isn't even half of the paragon template from the ELH (by itself.) More or less, I'd rather compare it to what the vampire and vampire lord templates individually give. If the Vampire Template gives a +8 for all its special powers, I suppose that the vampire lord would add a +6 LA and the elder vampire here would give +4 LA. So the grand total LA of an Elder Vampire (who would have to already be a vampire lord) would be +18. However, in retrospect, I do have to say that I think this template should be extremely powerful. This template seems to give the vampire lord less power than what the vampire lord gives the vampire. As such, I do think it needs more, but I'll give a much more thourough response in the form of a rewrite of the template. In addition, I'll go one step above the elder vampire (and make that nifty age progression that I mentioned earlier) and I'll also rewrite the vampire lord (so that it's 3.5e compatible, but no other changes beyond that.)
green_yawgmoth 08-13-04, 03:18 AM	That sounds great, TheDarkestOfAngels. A couple things I thought about adding were Superior Initiative (+8 to init, doesn't stack with imp. init.), making the dominate person ability into dominate monster, and giving more uses of Harm. Don't forget though, the elder is getting all of his HD into all of his DCs for his abilities, making that dominate ability especially hard to beat. http://img30.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
El_Machinae 08-13-04, 12:03 PM	Maybe it's the RIFTS in me, but I've always like the idea of vampires being in the process of mutating into something much greater than a bloodsucking humanoid. I have no suggestions about that, just food for thought. One neat little addition would be that the vampire's potency improves it's offspring. For example, if it creates a vampire spawn, they have the half-fiend template or maybe 8 hit dice. Or it's can have a favorite minion - and that favorite minion has some advantage (free Shadow levels in Sorceror, for example). This way, an Elder vampire can be a bigger problem for lower-level characters - the spawn are more dangerous than the average spawn - the Vampire Lord suddenly becomes more powerful as his "Master" ascends. Etc.
green_yawgmoth 08-13-04, 05:20 PM	Ooh, I kinda like that. How about every time it creates a vampire slave (vampire lords can't create spawn, only vampires enslaved to them), there's a 1% chance per HD of the creature that it gets the shadow template. Any thoughts? http://img30.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
green_yawgmoth 08-15-04, 06:25 PM	Anyone else have any ideas? Critique? Praise? http://img30.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
diaboli 08-15-04, 11:08 PM	Damage Reduction (Ex): 20/+6 Damage Reduction (Ex): 20/Holy and Good and Epic
TheDarkestOfAngels 08-16-04, 02:42 AM	When I was going over my version of an "elder vampire" I suddenly decided, against earlier wishes of mine, to greate a vampire with greater power (one level above that of an elder vampire.) Reason being is that that could essentially just be an elder vampire with the quasi-diety template, since their power would be approaching godhood anyway, and their impossible enough to kill just for being an elder vampire. First, I'll post my 3.5 rendition of the vampire lord with some minor tweaks (that kinda go along with what I think makes more sense.) First, the vampire lord. The next level of vampire (requires the vampire be at least 100 years old and must have a spawn or vampire slave turn against the vampire lord to-be. Monster Mayhem The Vampire Lord (Template) By Robert Wiese Revised by TheDarkestOfAngels In the machinations of vampires, the undead creatures vie against the living and against each other. Power is all, and the accumulation of power is the goal of these foul beings. Sometimes they rise up against their creators; on rare occasions they succeed in breaking the iron control of their "master" and slay it. These creatures can go beyond the normal vampire, and become an even more vile and horrible undead: a vampire lord. Few are ever seen, or recognized if seen. Possessing few of the weaknesses of their lesser kindred, they walk among mortals with little fear of discovery. They are the rulers of vampire communities. In a world where vampire conclaves battle against each other, the vampire lords play chess with their lesser kindred. Vampire lords are those few vampires who meet a strict set of requirements. They each have lived as a vampire for at least 100 years, and have acquired 10 or more class levels or Hit Dice. They tend to possess levels of arcane spellcasting classes, but not always. A vampire lord was formerly a vampire under the control of another vampire (not a vampire lord) and has slain its creator. Further, the vampire lord must have created at least 10 vampires and survived an assassination attempt by one of its subjects before achieving vampire lord status. Vampire lords are few and far between, and each is fiercely territorial. They know that run-of-the-mill vampires cannot match their power, but another vampire lord is a definite threat. As they gain power, they become more arrogant towards those they believe pose no threat, and more fearful of any real threat to their continued existence. Thus, if a vampire lord arises in the territory of another, the newcomer is driven away or destroyed as quickly as possible. Vampire lords command hundreds of undead servants throughout their vast territories, and can have legions of vampire servants at their beck and call. Unlike normal vampires, a vampire lord does not look the least bit unusual. It looks exactly like it did when alive and in the peak of health. It has lost the pale, hardened, almost feral look of the vampire. A vampire lord always surrounds itself with wealth and opulence, but it never forgets that the opulence is a by-product of power, not the primary goal. Vampire lords speak any languages they knew in life or learned as a vampire. Creating a Vampire Lord Vampire lord is a template that can be applied to any humanoid or monstrous humanoid creature with a character level of at least 10 that has already had the vampire template applied to it (hereafter referred to as the "base vampire"). So, make a vampire, and then apply this template to it. The creature uses all the special abilities of the base vampire, except as noted below. Hit Dice: Same as base vampire, then add +1 hit point per total HD of the base vampire Speed: Same as base vampire, plus vampire lords can fly with speed 50 ft. and perfect maneuverability. AC: The base vampire's natural armor bonus improves by +6. Attacks: Same as base vampire. Special Attacks: A vampire lord retains all the special abilities of the base vampire, except as modified below, and also gains those noted below. The saving throw, where applicable, is 10 + 1/2 the vampire lord's total HD + the vampire lord's Charisma modifier, unless noted otherwise. Domination (Su): As base vampire, except that a vampire lord can do this either by gaze or voice. It does not require line of sight to the target, but the target must be able to hear the vampire lord's voice when it speaks at a normal volume level. Energy Drain (Su): As base vampire, but a living creature hit by a vampire lord's slam attack takes 3 negative levels. Blood Drain (Su): As base vampire, but a vampire lord's blood drain inflicts 1d4+2 points of Constitution drain each round the pin is maintained. Special Qualities: The vampire lord retains all the special qualities of the base vampire, except as modified below, and gains those listed below. Alternate Form (Su): A vampire lord can assume the form of any animal, as the druid ability wild shape used by a 12th-level druid. The vampire lord can use this power at will as a move-equivalent action. The vampire lord can change from one animal shape to another without having to revert to its humanoid form. Children of the Night (Su): As base vampire, but the creatures summoned forth serve the vampire lord until released. Further, the vampire lord can sense through the senses of any such commanded creatures, and communicate empathically with them, to a range of 10 miles. Control Weather (Sp): A vampire lord can cast either control weather or fog cloud as a 12th-level sorcerer at will. Create Spawn (Su): As base vampire, but vampire lords create only vampire slaves, never vampire spawn. The new vampire is enslaved to the vampire lord until its master's death, and the willpower of the vampire lord is too strong to allow it to break free of its enslavement. Damage Reduction (Ex): A vampire lord is extremely tough; it has damage reduction 10/Silver, Magic, and Holy. Fast Healing (Ex): As base vampire, but a vampire lord heals 8 hit points each round so long as it has at least 1 hit point. It has 24 hours to reach a place of rest (rather than 2 hours) if brought to zero hit points. A vampire lord can have many places of rest prepared, since the only requirement is some soil from its homeland (the place where the base vampire was born). Telekinesis (Su): A vampire lord can use telekinesis (caster level 12th) at will. Telepathy (Su): A vampire lord can communicate telepathically with any living creature within 100 feet that has a language, and with any vampire under its direct control to a range of 1 mile. Turn Resistance (Ex): As base vampire +4 (see Monster Manual ver. 3.5). Saves: Same as the base vampire, plus the vampire lord applies its Charisma modifier to all saving throws in addition to its other ability modifiers (as a paladin does). Abilities: Increase from the base vampire as follows: Str +6, Dex +4, Int +2, Wis +2, Cha +4. As undead creatures, vampire lords have no Constitution scores. Skills: A vampire lord receives an additional +4 racial bonus to Scry and Sense Motive checks, and a +8 racial bonus to Diplomacy and Intimidate checks. Feats: Vampire lords gain Iron Will and Leadership as bonus feats, assuming the base vampire does not already have these feats. Climate/Terrain: Any land or underground Organization: Solitary Challenge Rating: Same as base vampire +3 Level Adjustement Same as base vampire +8 Treasure: Quadruple standard Alignment: Any evil. Advancement: By character class Vampire Lord Weaknesses Vampire lords have far fewer weaknesses than normal vampires, a benefit of their quest for power. Vampire lords cannot be repelled by garlic or holy symbols, though they can be turned. Mere presentation of a holy symbol has no effect. They have no fear of mirrors, and they cast reflections as living beings do. Vampire lords can cross over or through running water with no impediments. They are not harmed in any way by immersion in running water. A vampire lord is not as vulnerable to sunlight as a normal vampire, and can go about in broad daylight if it desires. Under sunlight, it takes a -4 penalty to all ability scores and on all attacks, saves, and skill checks. Also, a vampire lord in sunlight cannot use any of its supernatural powers. Victims of its domination power are not freed of the vampire lord's control during daylight hours; the vampire lord can verbally command any creature in its thrall even in direct sunlight. Spells that produce sunlight effects cannot harm a vampire lord; only direct light from the sun can weaken it. If the vampire lord is destroyed while exposed to direct sunlight, it seems to die, but unless the body is disposed of as described below, it assumes gaseous form as soon as the sun sets and attempts to return to its coffin. A vampire lord is not killed outright by a wooden stake driven through its heart, though the stake does cause normal damage if it can bypass the creature's damage reduction. The only way to make sure that a vampire lord does not return is to cut its head from its body, burn the body and the head separately, scatter the ashes from the body over running water, immerse the ashes from the head in holy water, and bury the immersed ashes in consecrated ground. However, if the head ashes are ever unearthed and somehow separated from the holy water, dried thoroughly, and then subjected to an unhallow spell, the vampire lord can regenerate in a week if the ashes are placed inside one of its places of rest. Next, is the elder vampire -- one greater than even the vampire lord. This vampire must be at least 250 years old and must have "died" in the manner that vampire lords die. However, they must have "died" in that fashion, and somehow reformed with additional conditions. The Elder Vampire (Template) By TheDarkestOfAngels, based off of Robert Wiese's Vampire Lord template The few vampire lords that survive long enough can reach ever higher reaches of power. However, reaching this level requires a "trial by fire," so to speak. In some instances, a Vampire Lord's vie for more power is contested and, and some occasions, defeated and slain as vampire lords normally would be. With their ashes of their head submerged in holy water, and buried under consecrated earth, Vampire Lords *could* be brought back by removing the ashes from both the holy water and the consecrated grounds the ashes were buried under and then subjecting the ashes to an unhallow spell. Theoretically, this could bring a vampire lord back to the unlife it formerly enjoyed. However, the more powerful vampire lords, the ones that have been a vampire lord for over 250 years and have over 20 class levels have a special condition upon this return. If the vampire lord has been brought back in this fashion and then subjected to a week's worth of being rebuked by evil priests followed by a miracle or wish spell to rejuvinate the vampire lord, the vampire lord evolves into an elder vampire. While Vampire lords are few and far in between, Elder Vampires are far, far rarer. If any exist, they exist in hibernation, having existed, unchallenged for eon after eon before going into hibernation again to wake into a new world to explore. Elder vampires have the power to command entire nations of vampires and often exist as the central figure of legions of followers and slaves, as few can stand up to their immense power. Like vampire lords, they look pretty much as they did in life. However, elder vampires often take on a new look, often to show the full intensity of their strength and nigh infinite wisdom in a mere stare. If and when someone rises to challenge their power, they are often quick to show off their superiority. Elder Vampires speak any languages they knew in life or learned as a vampire lord. Creating an Elder Vampire Elder Vampire is a template that can be applied to any humanoid or monstrous humanoid creature with a character level of at least 20 that has already had the vampire lord template applied to it (hereafter referred to as the "base vampire lord"). So, make a vampire lord, and then apply this template to it. The creature uses all the special abilities of the base vampire lord, except as noted below. Hit Dice: Same as base vampire lord, then add a further +2 hit points per total HD of the base vampire Speed: The Elder Vampire's base speed increases by +30ft, plus Elder Vampires can fly with speed 120 ft. and perfect maneuverability. AC: The base vampire's natural armor bonus improves by +6. Attacks: Same as base vampire. Special Attacks: A vampire lord retains all the special abilities of the base vampire, except as modified below, and also gains those noted below. The DCs of the vampire's abilities, where applicable, is increased by +4. Domination (Su): As base vampire lord, except that a vampire lord can can dominate one humanoid per HD of the vampire lord. Energy Drain (Su): As base vampire lord, but a living creature hit by a vampire lord's slam attack takes 5 negative levels. Blood Drain (Su): As base vampire lord, but an elder vampire's blood drain inflicts 2d4+2 points of Constitution drain each round the pin is maintained. Special Qualities: The vampire lord retains all the special qualities of the base vampire lord, except as modified below, and gains those listed below. Protection from Good (Su): The Elder Vampire is continueally protected as though under the effects of the protection from good spell. (Caster level 20th.) Nondetection (Su): The elder vampire is continueally protected as though under the effects of the nondetection spell (caster level 20th.) Etherealness (Su): the elder vampire can employ an etherealness effect at will as a free action as per the spell etherealness (caster level 20th.) The effect can be used a total of one round per HD of the elder vampire per day. These rounds need not be used consecutavely. Energy Resistance (Ex): An elder vampire has energy resistance 30 to cold and electricity, and resistance 10 to fire, acid, and sonic energy. Create Spawn (Su): As base vampire lord, but elder vampires can create a vampire lord if the target has over 10 HD. The vampire lord is completely under the command of the elder vampire and cannot rebel, as a vampire slave to a vampire lord. Damage Reduction (Ex): A vampire lord is extremely tough; it has damage reduction 15/Silver, Epic, and Holy. Fast Healing (Ex): As base vampire lord, but an elder vampire heals 20 hit points each round so long as it has at least 1 hit point. An elder vampire can rest anywhere that isn't consecrated or is in direct contact with sunlight. The Elder Vampire can wait and search for as long as is required to locate one. Once a suitable location is found, the Elder Vampire only requires 10 minutes of rest to go from zero hitpoints to one hit point before its fast healing takes effect. Telekinesis (Su): A vampire lord can use telekinesis (caster level 20th) at will. It is usable as a free action. Telepathy (Su): A vampire lord can communicate telepathically with any living creature within 1 mile per HD of the elder vampire that has a language, and with any vampire under its direct control to a range of 2 miles per HD of the elder vampire. Because this telepathy works so well, the Elder Vampire uusing this ability can gain access to certian surface thoughts and other memories. Creatures within the range of the telepathy can be subject to a detect thoughts effect (su) (caster level 20th). Turn Immunity (Ex): The Elder Vampire cannot be turned or destroyed at all as its lesser kin normally would. Immunities: The elder vampire is immune to all spells of up to 4th level. Saves: Any time the elder vampire must make a saving throw for half or partial effect, success results in no effect. (as per mettle of will and fortitude and evasion.) Abilities: Increase from the base vampire lord as follows: Str +10, Dex +6, Int +4, Wis +4, Cha +6. As undead creatures, elder vampires have no Constitution scores. Skills: Elder Vampires recieve a +12 racial bonus to Concentration, Gather Information, Jump, and Tumble. All prior racial adjustments from the Vampire Lord and Vampire templates increase by +4. Feats: The Elder Vampire gains use the following epic feats, unless the Elder Vampire already had them, even if the elder vampire doesn't meet the prequisites of those feats; Blinding Speed, Epic Leadership, Epic Reputation, Epic Toughness, Polygot, and Unholy Strike. Climate/Terrain: Any land or underground Organization: Solitary Challenge Rating: Same as base vampire lord +5 Level Adjustment Same as base vampire lord +12 Treasure: Quintuple standard Alignment: Any evil. Advancement: By character class Elder Vampire Weaknesses Vampire lords have even fewer weaknesses than normal vampires and vampire lords, a benefit of their quest for power. An elder vampire, like a vampire lord is not as vulnerable to sunlight as a normal vampire, and can go about in broad daylight if it desires. Under sunlight, it takes a -4 penalty to all ability scores and on all attacks, saves, and skill checks. Also, an elder vampire, unlike a vampire lord, can use its supernatural powers in sunlight. Spells that produce sunlight effects cannot harm an elder vampire; only direct light from the sun can weaken it. If the vampire lord is destroyed while exposed to direct sunlight, it seems to die, but unless the body is disposed of as described below, it assumes gaseous form as soon as the sun sets and attempts to find a resting place (as described in the fast healing description above.) The only way to make sure that an elder vampire does not return is to cut its head from its body with a sword forged from the blood of a good outsider with at least as many HD as the elder vampire. The head and body must be burnt into ashes while being continueally subjected to a turning effect from at least as many positive energy-channeling priests as the priests that underwent the processt to create the elder vampire in the first place while soaking in holy water for one week on consecrated ground, followed by a miracle or wish spell to permanently destroy the elder vampire. Then the ashes must be buried in the consecrated ground. An elder vampire can only return to life by repeating the ritual that made it into an elder vampire in the first place. However, this doesn't make the elder vampire more powerful, it only returns it to unlife by regenerating the elder vampire's body and regenerating one hit point before its fast healing kicks in and it returns to full power again. Given the agonizing complexity of creating or killing elder vampires, an extraordinarily few number of them exist and those few have likely never been destroyed. It is certainly possible, however. ... and that is what, roughly, I think an elder vampire should look like. When I think of an elder vampire, I think of the Viktor in the movie underworld. Unlike him, an elder D&D vampire has a plathora of other powers that seporate a vampire lord and a vampire from an elder vampire rather than just being stronger and faster and harder to kill. The elder vampire is harder to make from a vampire lord than what a vampire lord to make from a vampire. The result, however, is a vampire that is nigh impossible to permanently kill, is very powerful, and has a wide array of abilities at their disposal. The challenge rating and especially the level adjustments are all just wild, somewhat educated guesses. In any case, the elder vampire template I posted is essentially what I would suggest using for an elder vampire. I thought about using an age-progression-style thing for the vampires based on age, but I'm not quite sure how to formulate that, but I made my version of an elder vampire in its place... but that requires a lot more thought behind it than I have enough will to give. Instead, I'll just use this template or say that additional class levels are essentially that progression. Blah! curse my incoherant (i.e. sleep deprived) thoughts. I guess if I did want to do a more perfect vampire age-progression (like what a dragon has) then I would take the savage species progression of a standard vampire and take all eight levels of it and seporate them all by "age catagory." The advancement up that "age catagory" varies enough with each vampire progresses up the ladder at a different pace. A vampire that doesn't really do much other than what nobles or "regular" minion vampires do don't age very fast, as the experience gain is slower. The adventuring vampire gaining that power at a much faster pace with the "next level" or "vampire lord" template applying under the special conditions noted. If a LA was figured, a progression could be made for vampire lords and elder vampires alike, making a much longer, somewhat neater progression, though the progression makes little difference between a vampire that advanced "seven" of the eight "vampire levels" and those who became full vampires. But, in any case, that is essentially what I'd do. (and it wouldn't need a rewrite of the pre-existing templates, just an implimentation of the "savage progressions" stuff. Anyway, my babbling is done now. Enjoy my templates. I know any PCs trying to beat an elder vampire wouldn't. (heh heh... paragon elder vampire. paragon elder vampire quasi diety with forty class levels = badass mo' fo' BBEG.)
Tevish Szat 08-16-04, 04:00 AM	If you ever manage to kill and keep dead one of these things, toss the urn into a Sphere of Anihalation, 'cause you're not goign to get lucky enough to beat it a second time.
kasthevampire 08-16-04, 07:58 PM	Originally posted by Black Jack Davey It looks insanely powerful to me. Why do you want to do this? Why not just take a normal vampire and level them up a lot. That would imply experience, therefore probably meaning they are old and really worthy of the term 'elder'. I just think that would be a lot easier and more fair than trying to balance a template like this. Of course, that's just my opinion. ha your right la 11 on top of the vamps 8 and the la of a vamp lord that would be crazy. also you need 25 hd meanin about a total of 50 or more levels. maybe you should rename this template dracula and its probably even more powerful than kas himself
kasthevampire 08-16-04, 08:02 PM	Originally posted by Tevish Szat If you ever manage to kill and keep dead one of these things, toss the urn into a Sphere of Anihalation, 'cause you're not goign to get lucky enough to beat it a second time. yeah anything that touchs that spere is well destroyed. even its soul would be and nothing can bring it back not even a deity. why do i imagine one of these bad boys making an army of vamps and taking over the world.
TheDarkestOfAngels 08-16-04, 08:57 PM	Originally posted by kasthevampire yeah anything that touchs that spere is well destroyed. even its soul would be and nothing can bring it back not even a deity. why do i imagine one of these bad boys making an army of vamps and taking over the world. Because each and every vampire is like agent smith (from the matrix trilogy.) each vampire can kill their opponent in such a way as to gain a vampire or vampire spawn. If they keep doing this, can amass a small army of loyal, hard to kill (and reletively powerful) army in no-time. (although hiding an entire army during the day is rather difficult, unless the master can somehow get the army into and out of the plane of shadow reletively quickly.
green_yawgmoth 08-16-04, 10:43 PM	Wow, that's a pretty nice job on an alternate Elder Vampire, TheDarkestOfAngels. But I wouldn't give them the ability to make anything with 10HD+ a vampire Lord, since that kinda takes away the whole purpose of making Vampire Lords rare in the first place. I mean, if you saw 10 Vampire Lords in the same place, wouldn't that kind of take away all of the "oh snap, this guy isn't a normal vampire!" vibe? It'd be more of an "oh, another vamp that wears sunglasses when he goes outside" kinda thing. IMO. But I will steal some of yours for my idea. :smirk: http://img30.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
TheDarkestOfAngels 08-16-04, 11:59 PM	Originally posted by green_yawgmoth Wow, that's a pretty nice job on an alternate Elder Vampire, TheDarkestOfAngels. But I wouldn't give them the ability to make anything with 10HD+ a vampire Lord, since that kinda takes away the whole purpose of making Vampire Lords rare in the first place. I mean, if you saw 10 Vampire Lords in the same place, wouldn't that kind of take away all of the "oh snap, this guy isn't a normal vampire!" vibe? It'd be more of an "oh, another vamp that wears sunglasses when he goes outside" kinda thing. IMO. But I will steal some of yours for my idea. :smirk: Given how hard it is to make a vampire lord (through ascending a vampire) makes them extremely rare. By which, an elder vampire far, far rarer than even vampire lords. As such, I don't think elder vampires being able to make vampire lords through their spawn ability makes vampire lords significantly more common than what would otherwise exist, except possibly by the "elite" vampires directly under the elder vampire's control. (remember, vampires and vampire lords cannot spawn off more vampires lords, except through the standard method of making a vampire lord.
kasthevampire 08-17-04, 12:03 AM	but instead of spawn you now have real vamps under your control and they can't fight back until you are destroyed
TheDarkestOfAngels 08-17-04, 12:13 AM	Originally posted by kasthevampire but instead of spawn you now have real vamps under your control and they can't fight back until you are destroyed I'm aware of that. I just refer to "spawn" in the same manner as "Parents spawn children" as opposed to "vampire spawn" as in the monster manuel monster.
green_yawgmoth 08-17-04, 03:35 AM	Originally posted by TheDarkestOfAngels Given how hard it is to make a vampire lord (through ascending a vampire) makes them extremely rare. By which, an elder vampire far, far rarer than even vampire lords. As such, I don't think elder vampires being able to make vampire lords through their spawn ability makes vampire lords significantly more common than what would otherwise exist, except possibly by the "elite" vampires directly under the elder vampire's control. (remember, vampires and vampire lords cannot spawn off more vampires lords, except through the standard method of making a vampire lord. I suppose that's true, considering that any smart elder vampire wouldn't create too many of them. Extremely high level cleric comes up and casts control undead, the lords fail their will saves (somehow), now he's got 5 vampire lords against him. Or maybe just spread them out, each at (2*HD)-1 miles or so away. But at first glance, it would seem a bit powerful, maybe even overpowered, to have 1 Elder + 5 Vampire Lords + at least 50 vampire slaves + however many vampire spawn, all at the beck and call of one NPC. Hope your party's got a cleric who's really really really good at turning undead. ;) http://img30.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Archangel 08-17-04, 04:00 AM	As for age categories for Vampires, those can be found in the Ravenloft rulebook for 3.0E!
TheDarkestOfAngels 08-17-04, 04:34 AM	Originally posted by green_yawgmoth I suppose that's true, considering that any smart elder vampire wouldn't create too many of them. Extremely high level cleric comes up and casts control undead, the lords fail their will saves (somehow), now he's got 5 vampire lords against him. Or maybe just spread them out, each at (2*HD)-1 miles or so away. But at first glance, it would seem a bit powerful, maybe even overpowered, to have 1 Elder + 5 Vampire Lords + at least 50 vampire slaves + however many vampire spawn, all at the beck and call of one NPC. Hope your party's got a cleric who's really really really good at turning undead. ;) You can't even have an elder vampire (my version) without being epic. After the CR adjustements of a hypothetical encounter with one (likely a campaign BBEG), the total CR would be immense. Similar to fighting a demigod, pretty much. You're never just fighting a demigod when you fight a demigod. You also face his or her legion of followers, servants, slaves, lieutenants, etc. etc. etc. Same with the elder vampire. Of course, in epic, the turning ability of a cleric would be comparable anyway, though only the vampire lords would have to care. The elder vampire (my version) wouldn't give a crap what they do.
kasthevampire 08-17-04, 11:51 AM	hey if you got a vorpal weapon that should do the trick then go though the whole cermony of destroying it
green_yawgmoth 08-17-04, 10:32 PM	Originally posted by TheDarkestOfAngels You can't even have an elder vampire (my version) without being epic. After the CR adjustements of a hypothetical encounter with one (likely a campaign BBEG), the total CR would be immense. Similar to fighting a demigod, pretty much. You're never just fighting a demigod when you fight a demigod. You also face his or her legion of followers, servants, slaves, lieutenants, etc. etc. etc. Same with the elder vampire. Of course, in epic, the turning ability of a cleric would be comparable anyway, though only the vampire lords would have to care. The elder vampire (my version) wouldn't give a crap what they do. Another good point. It would be a total what, CR 35 minimum? So with all of the liutenants and what, that's gotta be an EL 45 (or so) encounter. Kas: A vorpal weapon would be good for cutting off the head of any vampire, but remember you've got less than a 5% chance of vorpaling the guy. IIRC, in 3.5e don't you have to roll a 20 hit and confirm the hit? And of course you have to get through what is probably an entire cavern of traps and encounters, then get him out into daylight and kill him, then get him to a sanctified area with a bunch of good casters (wizards for my version, clerics for TDOA's) and do the ceremony to keep it dead before sundown. Because as soon as the sun sets, its body goes gaseous and you've got to find it all over again. You'd have to coordinate with a fairly large church to finish one of these guys off. http://img30.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Kenzuki 08-18-04, 12:07 AM	I like Legacy of Kain's Vampires. They evolved as they grew older, eventually becoming immune to the sunlight, but water, not just running, just water still hurt them, it burned like acid. Except for Rahaab and his clan, who had gronw immunity to the water, but the sunlight still hurt them. They were like freaks, they looked weird and had fins and stuff.
kasthevampire 08-18-04, 11:10 AM	well if the weapon was a keened vorpal longsword for instance that would have a threat of 17-20 add improved critical and that is now a threat of 14-20. the hard part is confirming unless you got another crit for an intant kill. i did that once though and one time i was fighting a skeloton and my dm maneged to roll 3 ones in a row for attacking me. so he decided it fell apart
TheDarkestOfAngels 08-18-04, 08:42 PM	Originally posted by kasthevampire well if the weapon was a keened vorpal longsword for instance that would have a threat of 17-20 add improved critical and that is now a threat of 14-20. the hard part is confirming unless you got another crit for an intant kill. i did that once though and one time i was fighting a skeloton and my dm maneged to roll 3 ones in a row for attacking me. so he decided it fell apart *ahem* 1. Keen and Improved Critical No longer stack 2. if they could stack, a keen/improved critical longsword would have a threat range of 15-20, not 14-20 3. you can only vorpal on a natural 20, regardless of the weapon's threat range 4. You can't vorpal anything immune to critical hits (which includes undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and anything that is specifically stated to be resistant to critical hits (such as fortification armor.) Vampires might be an exception (because of what the 3.5 DMG specifically states under the vorpal description,) however, there's still the matter of the vampire simply going gaseous form, as they cannot die except by exceptional means.
kasthevampire 08-18-04, 08:45 PM	they are the only undead affected by the loss of there heads. and i play 3.0 and it says nothing about rolling a natural 20 just a succsessul critical hit
TheDarkestOfAngels 08-18-04, 09:27 PM	Originally posted by kasthevampire they are the only undead affected by the loss of there heads. and i play 3.0 and it says nothing about rolling a natural 20 just a succsessul critical hit Well, unless I say otherwise, I speak 3.5, in which vorpal attacks are natural 20 only. Another bit of cheese rightfully nerfed, both the stacking improved crit/keen thingie and vorpal + improved crit/keen thingie. In any case; Vampires and the loss of their heads; Affected? Yes. Destroyed? No. Can return to plan horrible revenge with full knowledge of the head-chopping sword? Ooooh Yeah.
kasthevampire 08-18-04, 09:38 PM	burn its head and your fine it doesn't have regeneration
TheDarkestOfAngels 08-18-04, 10:23 PM	Originally posted by kasthevampire burn its head and your fine it doesn't have regeneration "If reduced to 0 hit points in combat, [the vampire] automatically assumes gaseous form and attempts to escape. " Unless I'm mistaken, lopping off its head reduces it to 0 hit points and fighting it with a vorpal weapon is considered to be "in combat." You can, however, remove its head while it is in its coffin with a stake through its heart and fill it with holy wafers. Vampires don't have regeneration, but they can simply place their heads back on their necks and heal the damage and further regenerate (such as through spells) later.
kasthevampire 08-18-04, 10:54 PM	they are pesky with that gas form however that may be there undoing just follow the gas to its layer and you might be able to destroy a nest of them before killing them destroy the coffin. also what happens to a vamp that gets tranported to another plane they are pretty much dead unless they can somehow get back. also what happens when you turn them and you destoy them i would assume nothing is left of them.
TheDarkestOfAngels 08-18-04, 11:32 PM	Originally posted by kasthevampire they are pesky with that gas form however that may be there undoing just follow the gas to its layer and you might be able to destroy a nest of them before killing them destroy the coffin. That is, generally, how you do it. also what happens to a vamp that gets tranported to another plane they are pretty much dead unless they can somehow get back. Unless they can aquire either a) a method of interplanar travel to return from whence they came or b) another coffin Then yeah, they're boned, but only if they actually get to 0 hitpoints from some method or another. Though I don't know of any spells that transport an unwilling creature from one plane to another (I think reality maelstrom is one and one of the colors from prismatic spray or prismatic sphere does the trick, but all have saves and all of them are high level.) In any case, being a vampire generally comes with risk, but with risk comes great power. Vampires are one of those creatures that you typically don't want to mess with unless your entire character build is built to fight them. (Rangers with undead as their first and foremost favored enemy, undead hunters, priests and paladins that focus in combating undead, etc. are all examples.) Just likes ghosts, liches, mind flayers and dragons. also what happens when you turn them and you destoy them i would assume nothing is left of them. You destroy them with your turning ability only if the number of HD you turned is double or more than the HD of the undead creature. In other words, an 14th level priest with a high charisma is fighting a 5th level vampire. The priest turns undead and manages to turn 18 HD of undead (well, highest level of HD turned, anyway) which is exactly double that of the vampire's HD + Turn resistance -- then the vampire is destroyed. Otherwise, they're just turned. (which just means that they try to get away.)
kasthevampire 08-19-04, 12:04 AM	i was thinking a gate cast then having a powerful character like a raging barbarian bull rush him in. or you can try one of the bigby hand spells and do that. then you set up the gate into a volcano for instance and then he burns in the lava. or you could set up a gate from another plane to go to the material plane really high up so he can't get away. or you could avoid all the trouble by getting a nice juicy steak and stabbing him.
TheDarkestOfAngels 08-19-04, 01:04 AM	Originally posted by kasthevampire i was thinking a gate cast then having a powerful character like a raging barbarian bull rush him in. or you can try one of the bigby hand spells and do that. then you set up the gate into a volcano for instance and then he burns in the lava. or you could set up a gate from another plane to go to the material plane really high up so he can't get away. or you could avoid all the trouble by getting a nice juicy steak and stabbing him. The methods I stated are quite a bit easier. Vampires are very strong and very fast. Like whatever race they were before they became vampires, they can be nearly any class. Including barbarians, fighters, clerics, and wizards. That's in addition to being stronger than an equivelent PC and likely with a better AC than an equivelent PC, plus damage reduction, fast healing, powerful & debilitating forms of attack, among other things. You don't just "go and do this" to a vampire. I can say that I can "go and do this" to a Great Wyrm Gold Dragon or a Tarrasque also, but that doesn't mean it'll be easy. The only undead creatures that are "easy" to my knowledge are skeletons, zombies, and *maybe* ghouls and ghasts. Otherwise, you're dealing with bodaks, mohrgs, mummies, liches, vampires, ghosts, spectres, dracoliches, devourers, allips, nightshades, and nightwalkers -- and that's just from the (3.5) monster manuel. That is, unless of course you're a good few levels above the stated CR. None of them are exactly "easy" by any stretch of the imagination. Vampires nonexempt.
Tevish Szat 08-19-04, 01:23 AM	Originally posted by kasthevampire i was thinking a gate cast then having a powerful character like a raging barbarian bull rush him in. or you can try one of the bigby hand spells and do that. then you set up the gate into a volcano for instance and then he burns in the lava. or you could set up a gate from another plane to go to the material plane really high up so he can't get away. or you could avoid all the trouble by getting a nice juicy steak and stabbing him. No, you go to the positive Energy Plane, cast gate to summon the vamp through to your plane, cast dimensional anchor, and watch as it gets completly and utterly destroyed by positive energy.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 08-19-04, 01:52 AM	Originally posted by TheDarkestOfAngels 4. You can't vorpal anything immune to critical hits (which includes undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and anything that is specifically stated to be resistant to critical hits (such as fortification armor.) Vampires might be an exception (because of what the 3.5 DMG specifically states under the vorpal description,) however, there's still the matter of the vampire simply going gaseous form, as they cannot die except by exceptional means. Actually, you can vorpal stuff that's immune to critical hits. It just doesn't kill them. It's like how the energy burst weapon properties still function on creatures that are immune to critical hits. If a crit would normally happen, the effect happens.
TheDarkestOfAngels 08-19-04, 02:00 AM	Originally posted by Tevish Szat No, you go to the positive Energy Plane, cast gate to summon the vamp through to your plane, cast dimensional anchor, and watch as it gets completly and utterly destroyed by positive energy. can you summon a specific undead creature with gate? I'm not sure that you can. Using it as a method of transport and pushing the vampire through isn't at all a very sure-fire method, especially if the vampire can do a quick dismissal (or some other spell) on itself before a dimensional anchor gets off. Other Countermeasures include: --Ring of Positive Protection (Planar Handbook -- though not that hard for an intelligent undead to want one -- particularly ones around level 15+) It even suggests in the book that the item is popular by intelligent undead. --something that casts (whether the vampire casts it or an item casts it) avoid planar effects or attune form (planar handbook, manuel of the planes) -- remember, vampires do have fast healing -- the positive energy plane deals 1d6 damage/round to undead & vampires have fast healing 5, so they're only taking roughly one point of damage per six rounds. Vampire lords may as well be immune to the standard damage (though areas where the positive energy is stronger may as well be spheres of annihilation) (remember, though, the positive energy plane is just as dangerous to those adventurers. If the vampire is a spellcaster, the vampire can dimensional anchor/dimensional lock them there as well.) -- if the vampire isn't a spellcaster, the vampire *could* use its gaze attacks to attempt to dominate one of the adventurers (the spellcaster) into giving it free passage back. EDIT: Originally posted by Raymond_Luxury_Yacht Actually, you can vorpal stuff that's immune to critical hits. It just doesn't kill them. It's like how the energy burst weapon properties still function on creatures that are immune to critical hits. If a crit would normally happen, the effect happens. Okay. I didn't know that. That's good to know. (I've always thought that crit-dependant effects didn't happen if a crit didn't happen. Ah well. Live and learn.)
kasthevampire 08-19-04, 10:02 AM	there is a pretige class in complete warrior for an undead slayer it looks pretty good and can detect undead and other things and a special class feature makes it so that if you kill it like down to 0 hp its dead nothing can happen. and theres also the possiblilty of getting a mace of disruption which will only cost you around less than 8500 and any undead struck have to make the fort save against dc of 15 or be destroyed
green_yawgmoth 08-23-04, 11:54 PM	But wouldn't a mace of disruption make a vamp go instantly into gaseous form? I would think so, since it says anytime it is destroyed in combat, etc. http://img30.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
TheDarkestOfAngels 08-24-04, 01:34 AM	Originally posted by kasthevampire there is a pretige class in complete warrior for an undead slayer it looks pretty good and can detect undead and other things and a special class feature makes it so that if you kill it like down to 0 hp its dead nothing can happen. that ability just means that someone can't animate dead that particular corpse more than once. and theres also the possiblilty of getting a mace of disruption which will only cost you around less than 8500 and any undead struck have to make the fort save against dc of 15 or be destroyed ooooh... DC 15. I'm shaking in my itty bitty boots, I am. Seriously, DC 15 sucks. Even for vampires, with no con score, can more than likely make that saving throw. Originally posted by green_yawgmoth But wouldn't a mace of disruption make a vamp go instantly into gaseous form? I would think so, since it says anytime it is destroyed in combat, etc. Nope. If by some off-chance that the vamp actually fails that saving throw, the vamp is utterly destroyed, as per the disruption description in the DMG.
kasthevampire 08-24-04, 09:29 AM	1) you can't animate a corpse more than once normally! 2) if the vamp is a wizard chances are he has a low fort save. and on a bad roll like 5 and below i don't think it would survive its good for skelotons and stuff too