electrum dragon? [Archive] - Wizards Community

electrum dragon? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Hammerhead
03-09-05, 06:36 PM Has anyone seen stats for this? IF not can i have a description of it so i could maybe make some stats?
obrysii
03-09-05, 06:51 PM Half-Gold Silver Dragon, maybe?
Saturnum
03-09-05, 09:07 PM I need to find a metalurgy site to find what metals mix to. (copper and steel, anyone?) And isn't bronze a mix anyway?
Slagger the Chuul
03-09-05, 09:47 PM Bronze is an alloy of copper and tin, while brass is an alloy of copper and zinc. "Electrum" is pretty accurate for a gold/silver dragon, but there are various names for alloys of the other metals, depending on the proportions involved.

It has been suggested that the existence of bronze and brass dragons implies the previous existence of tin and zinc dragons.
Derren S.
03-10-05, 03:58 AM You must remember that the metallic dragons are called this way because they look like metal, but they are not metal.

Only because there is a dragon which scales look like bronze it diesn't mean that there must have been a dragon which looked like zinc.
RavinRay
03-10-05, 08:31 AM The 2E electrum dragon was said to be related to both gold and silver dragons, so it does perhaps indicate a hybrid of the two. It is said to treasure magical lore, and books, AFAIK.

The 3.5E electrum dragon is, IMO, up for grabs. Since, again AFAIK, it was a fan-created dragon, there has been little impetus to update it, official or otherwise. I have my own concept for an electrum dragon (as well as amalgam dragons, silver-mercury hybrids; gin lung, gold-t'ien lung hybrids), but others may have their own.

Slagger, those tin and zinc dragons imply that a steel dragon should be a hybrid of iron and carbon (graphite? diamond?) dragons, hence it should belong to the ferrous dragon family of the campaign world of Inzeladun. ;) Interestingly, one account of the creation of Krynnish dragons mentions tin and zinc dragons.
Grayequus
03-10-05, 09:57 AM Hey

The only statted electrum dragons I know about appearered in the 'Ruins of Myth Drannor' boxed set. They were scholarly researcher types and were reprinted in the Monstrous Compendium softbacks, I think. There was a 'handwave' note about another type, in the Fall of Myth Drannor but they were noted as being a deus ex machina hook for the DM. Hope this helps..
Slagger the Chuul
03-10-05, 11:51 AM Slagger, those tin and zinc dragons imply that a steel dragon should be a hybrid of iron and carbon (graphite? diamond?) dragons, hence it should belong to the ferrous dragon family of the campaign world of Inzeladun. ;) Interestingly, one account of the creation of Krynnish dragons mentions tin and zinc dragons.

I think it actually gets a little silly trying to break all the dragons down to component elements, but it has been suggested before. Given the fiery nature of some dragons, though, I don't think a carbon dragon would be too far out of place as a less advanced predecessor to the current dragons. :)

The best cut-off line is when the dragon stops seeming impressive. I can imagine an iron dragon or even a carbon dragon (But I'd steer clear of actually calling it a "carbon dragon") as fearsome and intimidating. The idea of a tin or zinc dragon might be better left untouched.

The metallic dragons also seem to have less well-defined stereotypes than the chromatic dragons, which certainly doesn't help.
RavinRay
03-11-05, 04:24 AM The best cut-off line is when the dragon stops seeming impressive. I can imagine an iron dragon or even a carbon dragon (But I'd steer clear of actually calling it a "carbon dragon") as fearsome and intimidating. The idea of a tin or zinc dragon might be better left untouched.

Yup, I know the feeling. There's also been half-serious suggestions for metallic dragons named after all the metals on the periodic table :eek: and of course, most of them sound too sci-fi, especially the ones discovered late in human history. If (a very big if) someone wants to go ahead and make more metallic dragons, you'll have to take the risk of giving it a silly-sounding name, or use names of metals known since antiquity, or use alloy names. (Pewter? :confused: ) But I confess, I am creating more metallic dragons, and I am struggling with the names.
Slagger the Chuul
03-11-05, 10:38 AM A lot of the possibilities could also be represented fairly well by one of the existing dragons, given a few cosmetic changes. A hypothetical carbon dragon, for example, could be made from a red dragon by simply describing it differently.

True dragons (like metallics and chromatics) need to be something special to justify all the clunky stat-blocking for different age categories. The Draconomicon is a good example of how to do it properly, with a diverse selection of interesting new true dragons.
BOZ
03-11-05, 04:57 PM i had converted it to 3.0 before i gave up working on dragons for good. ;)

if i could post doc files here, i could show you better looking age tables... but c'est la vie. quote this message, then copy and paste the text out of it, and you should be able to retain the tabs as they were.

ELECTRUM DRAGON (Draco Magus Electrum)
Dragon (Air)
Climate/Terrain: Any mountains
Organization: Wyrmling, very young, young, juvenile, and young adult: solitary or clutch (2-5); adult, mature adult, old, very old, ancient, wyrm, or great wyrm: solitary, pair, or family (1-2 and 2-5 offspring)
Activity Cycle: Any
Challenge Rating: Wyrmling 4; very young 6; young 9; juvenile 13; young adult 17; adult 21; mature adult 25; old 28; very old 33; ancient 36; wyrm 42; great wyrm 48
Treasure: Double standard goods and items; 50% coins
Alignment: Always neutral good
Advancement: Wyrmling 6-7 HD (Tiny); very young 9-10 HD (Small); young 12-13 (Medium-Size); juvenile 15-16 HD (Large); young adult 18-19 (Large); adult 21-22 (Large); mature adult 24-25 HD (Huge); old 27-28 HD (Huge); very old 30-31 HD (Huge); ancient 33-34 HD (Gargantuan); wyrm 36-37 HD (Gargantuan); great wyrm 39+ (Gargantuan)

The electrum dragon is the philosopher of dragonkind, spending its time in the isolated solitude of mountain peaks. They prefer to lair in rocky mountains, in a nice cavern or stone construction where they can be alone to think. These dragons are curious about all things and like to watch other creatures unnoticed. These dragons do enjoy meeting other beings on occasion, for trading or bargaining, or even a good philosophical debate. When other beings threaten, these peaceful creatures can be as formidable fighters as any other dragon.
Electrum dragons spend hours gazing upon things of beauty. An electrum’s hoard is usually nearly bare of coins, but is often filled with statues, golden harps, tapestries, and loads of gems and jewelry. They also find beauty in the use and practice of magic, and spend much time studying new spells and inventing their own.

COMBAT
Electrum dragons prefer to keep their distance in combat, using their spells and breath weapon to best advantage. These superior tacticians are capable of anticipating a foe’s strategy, and adapting to it instantly. Electrum dragons are born with a +1 bonus to all saving throws against magical spells and effects.
Breath Weapon (Su): An electrum dragon’s unique breath weapon is a cone of unstable gas that can cause either of two different effects, seemingly at random. At the DM’s option, it can cause enfeeblement (as the ray of enfeeblement spell), or confusion (as the spell), or both at the same time. If both effects take place, then all creatures in the area of effect must make saves against both attacks. The number range listed below is for the duration in rounds, as the effects cause no damage.
Spell-Like Abilities: At will – detect magic, identify (suffers no debilitating effects), read magic; 3/day – dispel magic; 2/day – telekinesis; 1/day – heal (self or creature touched), locate object, project image.

ELECTRUM DRAGONS BY AGE
Attack Fort Ref Will Breath Fear
Age Size Hit Dice (hp) AC Bonus Save Save Save Weapon (DC) DC SR
Wyrmling T 5d12+5 (37) 13 (+2 size, +1 natural) +7 +5 +4 +6 - --- ---
Very Young S 8d12+8 (60) 15 (+1 size, +4 natural) +10 +7 +6 +9 - --- ---
Young M 11d12+22 (93) 17 (+7 natural) +13 +9 +7 +10 2d4 (17) --- ---
Juvenile L 14d12+28 (119) 19 (-1 size, +10 natural) +16 +11 +9 +13 2d6 (19) --- 16
Young Adult L 17d12+51 (161) 22 (-1 size, +13 natural) +20 +13 +10 +14 2d8 (22) 22 18
Adult L 20d12+80 (210) 25 (-1 size, +16 natural) +25 +16 +12 +17 3d8 (24) 24 20
Mature Adult H 23d12+115 (264) 27 (-2 size, +19 natural) +29 +18 +13 +18 4d8 (27) 26 22
Old H 26d12+130 (299) 30 (-2 size, +22 natural) +33 +20 +15 +22 5d8 (28) 30 25
Very Old G 29d12+174 (362) 31 (-4 size, +25 natural) +35 +22 +16 +24 6d8 (30) 32 27
Ancient G 32d12+192 (400) 34 (-4 size, +28 natural) +39 +24 +18 +27 7d8 (30) 35 28
Wyrm G 35d12+245 (472) 37 (-4 size, +31 natural) +43 +26 +19 +29 8d8 (34) 37 29
Great Wyrm G 38d12+304 (551) 40 (-4 size, +34 natural) +47 +29 +21 +32 9d8 (37) 40 31

ELECTRUM DRAGON ABILITIES BY AGE
Age Speed Str Dex Con Int Wis Cha Special Abilities Caster Level
Wyrmling 60 ft, fly 90 ft (good) 11 10 13 14 14 15 Detect magic, read magic ---
Very Young 60 ft, fly 120 ft (good) 13 10 13 16 16 17 ---
Young 60 ft, fly 120 ft (average) 15 10 15 16 16 17 Identify ---
Juvenile 60 ft, fly 120 ft (average) 17 10 15 18 18 19 Locate object 1st
Young Adult 60 ft, fly 120 ft (average) 19 10 17 18 18 19 Damage reduction 5/+1 3rd
Adult 60 ft, fly 120 ft (average) 23 10 19 20 20 21 Dispel magic 5th
Mature Adult 60 ft, fly 120 ft (poor) 27 10 21 20 20 21 Damage reduction 10/+1 7th
Old 60 ft, fly 120 ft (poor) 29 10 21 24 24 25 Telekinesis 9th
Very Old 60 ft, fly 150 ft (poor) 31 10 23 26 26 27 Damage reduction 15/+1 11th
Ancient 60 ft, fly 150 ft (poor) 33 10 23 28 28 29 Project image 13th
Wyrm 60 ft, fly 150 ft (clumsy) 35 10 25 30 30 31 Damage reduction 20/+3 15th
Great Wyrm 60 ft, fly 150 ft (clumsy) 37 10 27 32 32 33 Heal 17th

Electrum dragons can cast either arcane or divine spells at the listed level.

The electrum dragon first appeared in Dragon Magazine #74, then in the Ruins of Myth Drannor boxed set (1993), and Monstrous Compendium Annual One (1994).
Hammerhead
03-11-05, 06:23 PM thats cool but why are the CRs so high?
BOZ
03-11-05, 10:15 PM they'll need to be adjusted. i'll be honest when i tell you that at that time, i had no idea how to properly assign CRs. :P
Slagger the Chuul
03-12-05, 12:24 AM The true dragons also tend to be two or three CRs above the actual listing. It's sort of like a hidden mechanic that makes dragons appropriately tough and special. It is Dungeons and Dragons, after all.
RavinRay
03-12-05, 09:02 AM Say, are you the same BOZ at EN World who started those wonderful 1e and 2e monster threads (especially the monsters featured in Dragon magazine)? I got a lot of useful dragon stuff there. Someone did a 3.0 conversion of Medrinia the aquatic dragon allay of Bahamut. Guess what? I plan to make her a full-fledged deity, as his consort.
BOZ
03-14-05, 02:41 AM one and the same. :D

still active, alive and well, going strong and all that.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hammerhead 03-09-05, 06:36 PM	Has anyone seen stats for this? IF not can i have a description of it so i could maybe make some stats?
obrysii 03-09-05, 06:51 PM	Half-Gold Silver Dragon, maybe?
Saturnum 03-09-05, 09:07 PM	I need to find a metalurgy site to find what metals mix to. (copper and steel, anyone?) And isn't bronze a mix anyway?
Slagger the Chuul 03-09-05, 09:47 PM	Bronze is an alloy of copper and tin, while brass is an alloy of copper and zinc. "Electrum" is pretty accurate for a gold/silver dragon, but there are various names for alloys of the other metals, depending on the proportions involved. It has been suggested that the existence of bronze and brass dragons implies the previous existence of tin and zinc dragons.
Derren S. 03-10-05, 03:58 AM	You must remember that the metallic dragons are called this way because they look like metal, but they are not metal. Only because there is a dragon which scales look like bronze it diesn't mean that there must have been a dragon which looked like zinc.
RavinRay 03-10-05, 08:31 AM	The 2E electrum dragon was said to be related to both gold and silver dragons, so it does perhaps indicate a hybrid of the two. It is said to treasure magical lore, and books, AFAIK. The 3.5E electrum dragon is, IMO, up for grabs. Since, again AFAIK, it was a fan-created dragon, there has been little impetus to update it, official or otherwise. I have my own concept for an electrum dragon (as well as amalgam dragons, silver-mercury hybrids; gin lung, gold-t'ien lung hybrids), but others may have their own. Slagger, those tin and zinc dragons imply that a steel dragon should be a hybrid of iron and carbon (graphite? diamond?) dragons, hence it should belong to the ferrous dragon family of the campaign world of Inzeladun. ;) Interestingly, one account of the creation of Krynnish dragons mentions tin and zinc dragons.
Grayequus 03-10-05, 09:57 AM	Hey The only statted electrum dragons I know about appearered in the 'Ruins of Myth Drannor' boxed set. They were scholarly researcher types and were reprinted in the Monstrous Compendium softbacks, I think. There was a 'handwave' note about another type, in the Fall of Myth Drannor but they were noted as being a deus ex machina hook for the DM. Hope this helps..
Slagger the Chuul 03-10-05, 11:51 AM	Slagger, those tin and zinc dragons imply that a steel dragon should be a hybrid of iron and carbon (graphite? diamond?) dragons, hence it should belong to the ferrous dragon family of the campaign world of Inzeladun. ;) Interestingly, one account of the creation of Krynnish dragons mentions tin and zinc dragons. I think it actually gets a little silly trying to break all the dragons down to component elements, but it has been suggested before. Given the fiery nature of some dragons, though, I don't think a carbon dragon would be too far out of place as a less advanced predecessor to the current dragons. :) The best cut-off line is when the dragon stops seeming impressive. I can imagine an iron dragon or even a carbon dragon (But I'd steer clear of actually calling it a "carbon dragon") as fearsome and intimidating. The idea of a tin or zinc dragon might be better left untouched. The metallic dragons also seem to have less well-defined stereotypes than the chromatic dragons, which certainly doesn't help.
RavinRay 03-11-05, 04:24 AM	The best cut-off line is when the dragon stops seeming impressive. I can imagine an iron dragon or even a carbon dragon (But I'd steer clear of actually calling it a "carbon dragon") as fearsome and intimidating. The idea of a tin or zinc dragon might be better left untouched. Yup, I know the feeling. There's also been half-serious suggestions for metallic dragons named after all the metals on the periodic table :eek: and of course, most of them sound too sci-fi, especially the ones discovered late in human history. If (a very big if) someone wants to go ahead and make more metallic dragons, you'll have to take the risk of giving it a silly-sounding name, or use names of metals known since antiquity, or use alloy names. (Pewter? :confused: ) But I confess, I am creating more metallic dragons, and I am struggling with the names.
Slagger the Chuul 03-11-05, 10:38 AM	A lot of the possibilities could also be represented fairly well by one of the existing dragons, given a few cosmetic changes. A hypothetical carbon dragon, for example, could be made from a red dragon by simply describing it differently. True dragons (like metallics and chromatics) need to be something special to justify all the clunky stat-blocking for different age categories. The Draconomicon is a good example of how to do it properly, with a diverse selection of interesting new true dragons.
BOZ 03-11-05, 04:57 PM	i had converted it to 3.0 before i gave up working on dragons for good. ;) if i could post doc files here, i could show you better looking age tables... but c'est la vie. quote this message, then copy and paste the text out of it, and you should be able to retain the tabs as they were. ELECTRUM DRAGON (Draco Magus Electrum) Dragon (Air) Climate/Terrain: Any mountains Organization: Wyrmling, very young, young, juvenile, and young adult: solitary or clutch (2-5); adult, mature adult, old, very old, ancient, wyrm, or great wyrm: solitary, pair, or family (1-2 and 2-5 offspring) Activity Cycle: Any Challenge Rating: Wyrmling 4; very young 6; young 9; juvenile 13; young adult 17; adult 21; mature adult 25; old 28; very old 33; ancient 36; wyrm 42; great wyrm 48 Treasure: Double standard goods and items; 50% coins Alignment: Always neutral good Advancement: Wyrmling 6-7 HD (Tiny); very young 9-10 HD (Small); young 12-13 (Medium-Size); juvenile 15-16 HD (Large); young adult 18-19 (Large); adult 21-22 (Large); mature adult 24-25 HD (Huge); old 27-28 HD (Huge); very old 30-31 HD (Huge); ancient 33-34 HD (Gargantuan); wyrm 36-37 HD (Gargantuan); great wyrm 39+ (Gargantuan) The electrum dragon is the philosopher of dragonkind, spending its time in the isolated solitude of mountain peaks. They prefer to lair in rocky mountains, in a nice cavern or stone construction where they can be alone to think. These dragons are curious about all things and like to watch other creatures unnoticed. These dragons do enjoy meeting other beings on occasion, for trading or bargaining, or even a good philosophical debate. When other beings threaten, these peaceful creatures can be as formidable fighters as any other dragon. Electrum dragons spend hours gazing upon things of beauty. An electrum’s hoard is usually nearly bare of coins, but is often filled with statues, golden harps, tapestries, and loads of gems and jewelry. They also find beauty in the use and practice of magic, and spend much time studying new spells and inventing their own. COMBAT Electrum dragons prefer to keep their distance in combat, using their spells and breath weapon to best advantage. These superior tacticians are capable of anticipating a foe’s strategy, and adapting to it instantly. Electrum dragons are born with a +1 bonus to all saving throws against magical spells and effects. Breath Weapon (Su): An electrum dragon’s unique breath weapon is a cone of unstable gas that can cause either of two different effects, seemingly at random. At the DM’s option, it can cause enfeeblement (as the ray of enfeeblement spell), or confusion (as the spell), or both at the same time. If both effects take place, then all creatures in the area of effect must make saves against both attacks. The number range listed below is for the duration in rounds, as the effects cause no damage. Spell-Like Abilities: At will – detect magic, identify (suffers no debilitating effects), read magic; 3/day – dispel magic; 2/day – telekinesis; 1/day – heal (self or creature touched), locate object, project image. ELECTRUM DRAGONS BY AGE Attack Fort Ref Will Breath Fear Age Size Hit Dice (hp) AC Bonus Save Save Save Weapon (DC) DC SR Wyrmling T 5d12+5 (37) 13 (+2 size, +1 natural) +7 +5 +4 +6 - --- --- Very Young S 8d12+8 (60) 15 (+1 size, +4 natural) +10 +7 +6 +9 - --- --- Young M 11d12+22 (93) 17 (+7 natural) +13 +9 +7 +10 2d4 (17) --- --- Juvenile L 14d12+28 (119) 19 (-1 size, +10 natural) +16 +11 +9 +13 2d6 (19) --- 16 Young Adult L 17d12+51 (161) 22 (-1 size, +13 natural) +20 +13 +10 +14 2d8 (22) 22 18 Adult L 20d12+80 (210) 25 (-1 size, +16 natural) +25 +16 +12 +17 3d8 (24) 24 20 Mature Adult H 23d12+115 (264) 27 (-2 size, +19 natural) +29 +18 +13 +18 4d8 (27) 26 22 Old H 26d12+130 (299) 30 (-2 size, +22 natural) +33 +20 +15 +22 5d8 (28) 30 25 Very Old G 29d12+174 (362) 31 (-4 size, +25 natural) +35 +22 +16 +24 6d8 (30) 32 27 Ancient G 32d12+192 (400) 34 (-4 size, +28 natural) +39 +24 +18 +27 7d8 (30) 35 28 Wyrm G 35d12+245 (472) 37 (-4 size, +31 natural) +43 +26 +19 +29 8d8 (34) 37 29 Great Wyrm G 38d12+304 (551) 40 (-4 size, +34 natural) +47 +29 +21 +32 9d8 (37) 40 31 ELECTRUM DRAGON ABILITIES BY AGE Age Speed Str Dex Con Int Wis Cha Special Abilities Caster Level Wyrmling 60 ft, fly 90 ft (good) 11 10 13 14 14 15 Detect magic, read magic --- Very Young 60 ft, fly 120 ft (good) 13 10 13 16 16 17 --- Young 60 ft, fly 120 ft (average) 15 10 15 16 16 17 Identify --- Juvenile 60 ft, fly 120 ft (average) 17 10 15 18 18 19 Locate object 1st Young Adult 60 ft, fly 120 ft (average) 19 10 17 18 18 19 Damage reduction 5/+1 3rd Adult 60 ft, fly 120 ft (average) 23 10 19 20 20 21 Dispel magic 5th Mature Adult 60 ft, fly 120 ft (poor) 27 10 21 20 20 21 Damage reduction 10/+1 7th Old 60 ft, fly 120 ft (poor) 29 10 21 24 24 25 Telekinesis 9th Very Old 60 ft, fly 150 ft (poor) 31 10 23 26 26 27 Damage reduction 15/+1 11th Ancient 60 ft, fly 150 ft (poor) 33 10 23 28 28 29 Project image 13th Wyrm 60 ft, fly 150 ft (clumsy) 35 10 25 30 30 31 Damage reduction 20/+3 15th Great Wyrm 60 ft, fly 150 ft (clumsy) 37 10 27 32 32 33 Heal 17th Electrum dragons can cast either arcane or divine spells at the listed level. The electrum dragon first appeared in Dragon Magazine #74, then in the Ruins of Myth Drannor boxed set (1993), and Monstrous Compendium Annual One (1994).
Hammerhead 03-11-05, 06:23 PM	thats cool but why are the CRs so high?
BOZ 03-11-05, 10:15 PM	they'll need to be adjusted. i'll be honest when i tell you that at that time, i had no idea how to properly assign CRs. :P
Slagger the Chuul 03-12-05, 12:24 AM	The true dragons also tend to be two or three CRs above the actual listing. It's sort of like a hidden mechanic that makes dragons appropriately tough and special. It is Dungeons and Dragons, after all.
RavinRay 03-12-05, 09:02 AM	Say, are you the same BOZ at EN World who started those wonderful 1e and 2e monster threads (especially the monsters featured in Dragon magazine)? I got a lot of useful dragon stuff there. Someone did a 3.0 conversion of Medrinia the aquatic dragon allay of Bahamut. Guess what? I plan to make her a full-fledged deity, as his consort.
BOZ 03-14-05, 02:41 AM	one and the same. :D still active, alive and well, going strong and all that.