Elemental / Para-Elementals [Archive] - Wizards Community

Elemental / Para-Elementals [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ElvenOutlaw
01-11-06, 12:26 PM Long time board lurker / First time posting. So please bear with me.. :D

New campaign I just started playing in I have a mage thats going to be a summoner for the most part. Plans are to be mostly involved in conjuring elementals. However I wanted to be able to go a little beyond the basic 4 elemental types. The para-elementals from the older Manuel of the Planes books are really interesting in my opinion. From what I can see through they are somewhat broken once they get into Large size and above. I was wondering if anyone could help me/give me some suggestions on getting them more up on par with 3.5. :confused: Wizards seemed to drop them with the updated Planar Handbook and I havent seen them in any other material.

The campaign I'm running also is going to be getting into the stage where there are going to be "planar rifts" starting to open across the world letting creatures from other planes come onto theirs. With the rifts being random and unpredictable I wanted to be able to throw, what they would consider "abnormal" creatures at them. The Para-elemental types would fit that bill for a few encounters. I'm hoping if I can get a basic structure for them I might be able to upgrade them into Monolith level categories too.

:help: Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Seraph of Babel
01-12-06, 01:07 AM We at planewalker.com are preparing a .pdf release Denizens of the Elemental Planes, comprising of converted 2nd ed. creatures. The following is a preview which makes some adjustments to the paraelementals and genies.

PARAELEMENTALS: MORE REVISIONS
Unlike what is listed in Manual of the Planes, the paralementals should not have iterative attacks for natural weapons and the damage should not get 1.5 Strength multiplier. Instead, they get 2 attacks of the same type at the highest attack bonus with normal Strength modifier to damage. For example, a greater magma elemental’s full attack should be 2 slams +23 melee (2d10+10), instead of slam +23/+18/+13 melee (2d10+15). Note that this has not been corrected in the v3.5 Update Accessory Booklet.

Special Attacks: The save DC should be Constitution-based for ice, magma and ooze elementals, and Strength-based for smoke elementals. The original DC is Charisma-based (ice), Dexterity-based (magma, ooze), and Strength-based with arbitrary +1 bonus for Large, Greater, and Elder (smoke).
Elemental Ice Magma Ooze Smoke
Small DC 11 DC 12 DC 12 DC 11
Medium DC 14 DC 15 DC 15 DC 13
Large DC 17 DC 18 DC 18 DC 16
Huge DC 22 DC 23 DC 23 DC 22
Greater DC 24 DC 25 DC 25 DC 25
Elder DC 26 DC 27 DC 27 DC 28
GENIES: AIR DAO, CHAOTIC MARID
Unlike what is listed in Manual of the Planes, the genies should not have iterative attacks for natural weapons and the damage should not get 1.5 Strength multiplier. Instead, they get 2 attacks of the same type at the highest attack bonus with normal Strength modifier to damage. The marid’s spell resistance is too overwhelming for its Challenge Rating (SR=CR+18). The following reduces it to CR+14 instead. The subtypes are just plainly nonsensical. Note that this has not been corrected in the v3.5 Update Accessory Booklet.

DAO
Large Outsider (Earth, Extraplanar)
Full Attack: 2 slams +13 melee (1d8+6)

MARID
Large Outsider (Extraplanar, Water)
Full Attack: 2 slams +16 melee (1d8+6)
SQ: Spell resistance 23
ElvenOutlaw
01-12-06, 10:12 AM Any suggestions on Feats, skills, and the damage reduction?? It seems the Para-elementals (Paras from here forth) got fewer feats, higher skills, and a increased damage reduction. Should I simiply lower the Para's DR to equal that of a normal elemental of its size/age? That one seems pretty simple, but the feats/skills I think is my biggest concern. Starting back with a small para ooze should I just use a Water-elementals progression for skills/feats as that seems to be more what its follows feat progression wise. Likewise Magma = Earth / Smoke = Air / Ice = Fire progressions? Something like that as I don't have my books with me right now. Just seems kinda odd that a Elder Elemental would have around maybe 8 feats, where a Para only has around 4 in some cases.
Thank you for the quick response though. Again any further help is greatly appreciated. :dancin:
Seraph of Babel
01-13-06, 12:31 AM I believe feats, skills, DR, etc. are already in the v3.5 Update Booklet. Those stuffs in my previous posts are not though. Check it out if you haven't seen it.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a
ElvenOutlaw
01-13-06, 08:14 AM Outstanding. As I was not aware of a 3.5 update .pdf for MotP, hence the reason for my original posting. Make my job much easier. Now its off to plotting and scheming :plotting: Your assistance has been most helpful.

:bounce:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ElvenOutlaw 01-11-06, 12:26 PM	Long time board lurker / First time posting. So please bear with me.. :D New campaign I just started playing in I have a mage thats going to be a summoner for the most part. Plans are to be mostly involved in conjuring elementals. However I wanted to be able to go a little beyond the basic 4 elemental types. The para-elementals from the older Manuel of the Planes books are really interesting in my opinion. From what I can see through they are somewhat broken once they get into Large size and above. I was wondering if anyone could help me/give me some suggestions on getting them more up on par with 3.5. :confused: Wizards seemed to drop them with the updated Planar Handbook and I havent seen them in any other material. The campaign I'm running also is going to be getting into the stage where there are going to be "planar rifts" starting to open across the world letting creatures from other planes come onto theirs. With the rifts being random and unpredictable I wanted to be able to throw, what they would consider "abnormal" creatures at them. The Para-elemental types would fit that bill for a few encounters. I'm hoping if I can get a basic structure for them I might be able to upgrade them into Monolith level categories too. :help: Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Seraph of Babel 01-12-06, 01:07 AM	We at planewalker.com are preparing a .pdf release Denizens of the Elemental Planes, comprising of converted 2nd ed. creatures. The following is a preview which makes some adjustments to the paraelementals and genies. PARAELEMENTALS: MORE REVISIONS Unlike what is listed in Manual of the Planes, the paralementals should not have iterative attacks for natural weapons and the damage should not get 1.5 Strength multiplier. Instead, they get 2 attacks of the same type at the highest attack bonus with normal Strength modifier to damage. For example, a greater magma elemental’s full attack should be 2 slams +23 melee (2d10+10), instead of slam +23/+18/+13 melee (2d10+15). Note that this has not been corrected in the v3.5 Update Accessory Booklet. Special Attacks: The save DC should be Constitution-based for ice, magma and ooze elementals, and Strength-based for smoke elementals. The original DC is Charisma-based (ice), Dexterity-based (magma, ooze), and Strength-based with arbitrary +1 bonus for Large, Greater, and Elder (smoke). Elemental Ice Magma Ooze Smoke Small DC 11 DC 12 DC 12 DC 11 Medium DC 14 DC 15 DC 15 DC 13 Large DC 17 DC 18 DC 18 DC 16 Huge DC 22 DC 23 DC 23 DC 22 Greater DC 24 DC 25 DC 25 DC 25 Elder DC 26 DC 27 DC 27 DC 28 GENIES: AIR DAO, CHAOTIC MARID Unlike what is listed in Manual of the Planes, the genies should not have iterative attacks for natural weapons and the damage should not get 1.5 Strength multiplier. Instead, they get 2 attacks of the same type at the highest attack bonus with normal Strength modifier to damage. The marid’s spell resistance is too overwhelming for its Challenge Rating (SR=CR+18). The following reduces it to CR+14 instead. The subtypes are just plainly nonsensical. Note that this has not been corrected in the v3.5 Update Accessory Booklet. DAO Large Outsider (Earth, Extraplanar) Full Attack: 2 slams +13 melee (1d8+6) MARID Large Outsider (Extraplanar, Water) Full Attack: 2 slams +16 melee (1d8+6) SQ: Spell resistance 23
ElvenOutlaw 01-12-06, 10:12 AM	Any suggestions on Feats, skills, and the damage reduction?? It seems the Para-elementals (Paras from here forth) got fewer feats, higher skills, and a increased damage reduction. Should I simiply lower the Para's DR to equal that of a normal elemental of its size/age? That one seems pretty simple, but the feats/skills I think is my biggest concern. Starting back with a small para ooze should I just use a Water-elementals progression for skills/feats as that seems to be more what its follows feat progression wise. Likewise Magma = Earth / Smoke = Air / Ice = Fire progressions? Something like that as I don't have my books with me right now. Just seems kinda odd that a Elder Elemental would have around maybe 8 feats, where a Para only has around 4 in some cases. Thank you for the quick response though. Again any further help is greatly appreciated. :dancin:
Seraph of Babel 01-13-06, 12:31 AM	I believe feats, skills, DR, etc. are already in the v3.5 Update Booklet. Those stuffs in my previous posts are not though. Check it out if you haven't seen it. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a
ElvenOutlaw 01-13-06, 08:14 AM	Outstanding. As I was not aware of a 3.5 update .pdf for MotP, hence the reason for my original posting. Make my job much easier. Now its off to plotting and scheming :plotting: Your assistance has been most helpful. :bounce: