Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dregonflyus 01-19-06, 12:33 PM	I hope im in the right forum... A new player in my campaign wants to be an psion earth elemental. How can I go about letting him play an elemental? I understand how he would grow levels in the psion class. But what about racial levels? Im not sure how these work. Should he start out as a 2HD elemental and be a level 1 psion? And when levels are earned could he put it into either his psion class or racial HD (eventually becoming bigger and getting size ability bonuses). Want kind of skill points and feat progresion would he get if he could put earned levels into his racial HD? Are their any racial adjustments for elemental ability scores?
Talisman 01-19-06, 01:31 PM	Earth elementals have no level adjustment, which means they're not intended to work as PCs. That being said, here are the rules and my suggestions. A Small earth elemental is a 2-HD creature. Treat these HD exactly a character levels. At 3 HD (counting racial HD and class levels), the elemental gains a feat; at 4 HD, a stat increase, etc. To find racial bonuses, subtract 10 (if even) or 11 (if odd) from the creature's stats. This gives a Small earth elemental +6 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con and -6 Int. Remember that the elemental PC gets all the racial traits of the earth elemental (+7 natural armor, earth glide, natural slam attack, elemental stuff). A Small earth elemental looks like about a +2 level adjustment to me, for an ECL of 4--that is, at 2 HD it's as tough as a 4th-level character. With 1 psion level, its ECL becomes 5, and so forth. ECL is useful for comparing toughness, XP awards, CR, and so forth. I wouldn't allow an earth elemental unless the other PCs are at least 4th level; otherwise, it's powers might overshadow them. When an elemental levels up, I see no reason why it cannot take a "level" in Elemental an gain another racial HD. When it increases in size, just compare the stat bonuses it already has to what the next-bigger elemental gets. Good luck!
dregonflyus 01-19-06, 01:57 PM	Earth elementals have no level adjustment, which means they're not intended to work as PCs. That being said, here are the rules and my suggestions. A Small earth elemental is a 2-HD creature. Treat these HD exactly a character levels. At 3 HD (counting racial HD and class levels), the elemental gains a feat; at 4 HD, a stat increase, etc. To find racial bonuses, subtract 10 (if even) or 11 (if odd) from the creature's stats. This gives a Small earth elemental +6 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con and -6 Int. Remember that the elemental PC gets all the racial traits of the earth elemental (+7 natural armor, earth glide, natural slam attack, elemental stuff). A Small earth elemental looks like about a +2 level adjustment to me, for an ECL of 4--that is, at 2 HD it's as tough as a 4th-level character. With 1 psion level, its ECL becomes 5, and so forth. ECL is useful for comparing toughness, XP awards, CR, and so forth. I wouldn't allow an earth elemental unless the other PCs are at least 4th level; otherwise, it's powers might overshadow them. When an elemental levels up, I see no reason why it cannot take a "level" in Elemental an gain another racial HD. When it increases in size, just compare the stat bonuses it already has to what the next-bigger elemental gets. Good luck! Almost exactly what I originally made up. I made the elemental a character level of 10. I had put 4 levels into its race so it would be a medium elemental and 6 into its psion class. I took no consideration for LA though and the other PC's are nearing epic levels. Originally though, beside the 4 lv ability score bonus, I had his stats go up based on the size progression rules (yes he was at 30 something str and 20 something con) He ended up being stronger then other elementals of the same size. I did not like that. How would I give skill points if he started level 1 in elemental levels and later picked up psion levels. Also how many skill points would he receive if he goes up in 1 more racial level? Would his int mod effect this as well as it does to standard PC'c? So when he reaches a huge elemental his racial ability scores would be s+18, d-2, c+10, i-4? minus his small elemental ability scores. he would gain the varience?
Talisman 01-19-06, 02:10 PM	Elementals get the following: —8-sided Hit Dice. —Base attack bonus equal to 3/4 total Hit Dice (as cleric). —Good saves depend on the element: Fortitude (earth, water) or Reflex (air, fire). —Skill points equal to (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die. Traits: An elemental possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry). —Darkvision out to 60 feet. —Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, and stunning. —Not subject to critical hits or flanking. —Unlike most other living creatures, an elemental does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an elemental is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an elemental. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection, to restore it to life. —Proficient with natural weapons only, unless generally humanoid in form, in which case proficient with all simple weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry. —Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) that it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Elementals not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Elementals are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor. —Elementals do not eat, sleep, or breathe. How would I give skill points if he started level 1 in elemental levels and later picked up psion levels. Also how many skill points would he receive if he goes up in 1 more racial level? Would his int mod effect this as well as it does to standard PC'c? The elemental gets skill points exactly as a character does: 2 (base) +Int mod per level, and x4 at 1st (character) level. When he picks up psion levels, give him skills exactly as a normal psion. So when he reaches a huge elemental his racial ability scores would be s+18, d-2, c+10, i-4? minus his small elemental ability scores. he would gain the varience? Small Stat Mods: +6 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con, -6 Int, +7 natural armor Medium Stat Mods: +10 Str, +6 Con, +9 natural armor *Net Gain from Small: +4 Str, +4 Con, +2 natural armor Large Stat Mods: +14 Str, +8 Con, +10 natural armor *Net Gains from Medium: +4 Str, +2 Con, +1 natural armor Huge Stat Mods: +18 Str, +10 Con, +11 natural armor *Net Gains from Large: +4 Str, +2 Con, +1 natural armor Let the player roll or by stats normally, then apply the racial mods. Yes, this means that a PC elemental will be tougher on average than a "standard" elemental.
dregonflyus 01-19-06, 02:40 PM	Good stuff :D Thank you for your effort and time.
Antioch 01-19-06, 03:44 PM	While lacking a level adjustment, each of the Large sized basic elemental types are featured in Savage Species, which the earth elemental entering at 13 levels in total. The character begins as a Small size, growing to Medium at 4th level and finally to Large at 12th level. You gain feats at 1st level and every 3rd Hit Die (not class level, as feats are Hit Dice based). You do not gain the ability score point every 4th level (as those are perks of taking actual class levels). The way SS monster classes work is that you build it off of a set creature; you cannot decide to play a Small elemental and then "grow" into a larger category later, as it would involve a completely different class structure and racial features mapping. Creatures can change in size on their way to the full potential of the final creature, however. Using SS you will be generally better off than other elementals, but by much depends on how you generate ability scores (if you roll, then it has a wider range than say, point buy methods). Small and Medium elementals have a -6 penalty to Intelligence, Large have a -4 penalty, Huge and Greater Huge have a -2 penalty, and Elder Huge have no Intelligence penalty at all. Really, going larger than Huge would probably yield an epic-category character, so I would recommend sticking with the Large (also, creatures with Intelligence penalties greater than -4 generally are NOT recommended). Playing a psion (Intelligence-based) would be very difficult due to the high Intelligence penalty incurred. Since they do not (for some reason) possess Charisma penalties, it might be in your best interest to allow the player to select a feat that allows him to use his Charisma modifier instead, or suggest taking levels in the Wilder (a Charisma based psionic class). Furthermore, to allow this character to function as a "spellcasting type", I would allow the player to freely multiclass between both elemental and psion levels, otherwise he would have to wait until 14th level to get his first psion level (which would not be very useful). If the rest of the party is epic, then you might consider lowering the overall level adjustment that an earth elemental has in accordance to SS (which would be +5 given the table), as the higher level you get, the lest useful your abilities will be. Basically, if they are nearing epic you could get away with a complete Large elemental and about 12 levels of psion (still not very useful, but better).
runestar 01-19-06, 10:59 PM	According to SS, a large elemental has 8 HD and a LA of +5. According to UE, a medium sized elemental has 4 HD and LA+4. It can thus be extrapolated that each increment in size category also increases the LA by +1. Also note that the various sizes of elementals are not simply advanced versins of each other, but rather, individual monsters in their own right. You will notice that each subsequent size version gets additional benefits over and above what they would normally accrue from size increments alone. LA of "-" does not mean LA+0, just that it might not be suitable for use as a PC.
Antioch 01-19-06, 11:30 PM	It can thus be extrapolated that each increment in size category also increases the LA by +1. Not necessarily true, as we see here... Also note that the various sizes of elementals are not simply advanced versins of each other, but rather, individual monsters in their own right. You will notice that each subsequent size version gets additional benefits over and above what they would normally accrue from size increments alone.