Elemental Subtypes and Classes [Archive] - Wizards Community

Elemental Subtypes and Classes [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
fenrishero
12-28-05, 02:49 PM Just a quick question. A couple of monsters that are capable of gaining class levels and races begin energy subtypes, such as Fire or Cold. However, there are classes that allow them to pick up a subtype that is the exact opposite template. The best example is an Azer taking the Frost Mage class, and acquiring the cold subtype at the end. My question is what happens in this situation? Savage Species states that "in general" (their wording, not mine) you can only have a single energy subtype, but this may be the exception to that rule, under the wording. My current interpretation is to take the principle of the 'pyramid rule' outlined in savage species, and say that you gain the new subtype and lose the old one. However, that raises some questions about losing supernatural abilities tied to the template, such as the heat supernatural ability possesed by several fire subtypes. If you were to allow the subtypes to stack, does immunity supercede vulnerability, or the other way around? Do I smack players for making me consider this insanity? Thanks advance for any help.
Vestigial_Thumb
12-28-05, 02:51 PM I think you lose the old subtype. Your special abilities, however, continue working. This might make an interesting roleplaying concept.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
12-28-05, 05:16 PM You get both subtypes. And yes, the immunity supercedes the vulnerability.
Weenie
12-28-05, 05:35 PM Having 2 opposite energy types makes very little sense, except in special cases (composite elementals and the like). "In general" in SS probably refers to Acid + Fire, Cold + Electricity, and similar combos.

Decide on a case by case basis. Work with the player to decide what he has to give up along with the old subtype. IMHO, double immunities that suppress double vulnerabilities are generally too much for PCs.
Shemeska the Marauder
12-28-05, 08:15 PM Indeed, do it on a case by case basis.

Myself, for diametrically opposed subtypes, like fire and cold, I'd either have it be impossible, or taking them would radically alter the individual in question, swapping prior traits for the new ones, but never having them stack. It smacks of munchkinism and doesn't make thematic sense otherwise.

I don't have issue with non opposed subtypes stacking however, like electricity and acid, etc. That's just cool and makes for interesting combinations and RP opportunity.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
fenrishero 12-28-05, 02:49 PM	Just a quick question. A couple of monsters that are capable of gaining class levels and races begin energy subtypes, such as Fire or Cold. However, there are classes that allow them to pick up a subtype that is the exact opposite template. The best example is an Azer taking the Frost Mage class, and acquiring the cold subtype at the end. My question is what happens in this situation? Savage Species states that "in general" (their wording, not mine) you can only have a single energy subtype, but this may be the exception to that rule, under the wording. My current interpretation is to take the principle of the 'pyramid rule' outlined in savage species, and say that you gain the new subtype and lose the old one. However, that raises some questions about losing supernatural abilities tied to the template, such as the heat supernatural ability possesed by several fire subtypes. If you were to allow the subtypes to stack, does immunity supercede vulnerability, or the other way around? Do I smack players for making me consider this insanity? Thanks advance for any help.
Vestigial_Thumb 12-28-05, 02:51 PM	I think you lose the old subtype. Your special abilities, however, continue working. This might make an interesting roleplaying concept.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 12-28-05, 05:16 PM	You get both subtypes. And yes, the immunity supercedes the vulnerability.
Weenie 12-28-05, 05:35 PM	Having 2 opposite energy types makes very little sense, except in special cases (composite elementals and the like). "In general" in SS probably refers to Acid + Fire, Cold + Electricity, and similar combos. Decide on a case by case basis. Work with the player to decide what he has to give up along with the old subtype. IMHO, double immunities that suppress double vulnerabilities are generally too much for PCs.
Shemeska the Marauder 12-28-05, 08:15 PM	Indeed, do it on a case by case basis. Myself, for diametrically opposed subtypes, like fire and cold, I'd either have it be impossible, or taking them would radically alter the individual in question, swapping prior traits for the new ones, but never having them stack. It smacks of munchkinism and doesn't make thematic sense otherwise. I don't have issue with non opposed subtypes stacking however, like electricity and acid, etc. That's just cool and makes for interesting combinations and RP opportunity.