Elementals can be knocked unconcious [Archive] - Wizards Community

Elementals can be knocked unconcious [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Beware of Kobold
06-22-04, 03:11 PM it seems wierd but is there any reason why an elemental can't be knocked unconcious with nonlethal damage, or by going below 0 hp?
yonman
06-22-04, 03:19 PM I couldn't find anything specific about it elementals being knocked unconscious, but I would say No.

They can't be affected by sleep, don't sleep, and immune to stun and paralysis. IMHO that is practically everything but unconsciousness.
Krelios
06-22-04, 03:20 PM They don't take nonlethal damage and die immediately upon reaching 0 hp, so they can't be knocked unconscious.
Beware of Kobold
06-23-04, 03:02 AM Krelios: where does it say they dont take non-lethal damage and die at 0 hp?

and Yonman: elves aren't afected by sleep spells but can be knocked unconcious
SuperJohan
06-23-04, 07:20 AM Probable the same as an Invisible Stalker.
The elemental will go back to his own plane and he can be killed on his own plane!
Krelios
06-23-04, 10:53 AM Beware of Kobold,
I'll be darned, I can't find it. Undead say they don't take nonlethal and die at 0 because they aren't alive. I've never considered Elementals to be any more "alive" than undead so I guess I've been house-ruling that. According to the rules, they can take non-lethal and can fall unconscious at negative hitpoints--even though they're immune to stunning and paralysis. That is wierd.
Beware of Kobold
06-23-04, 02:02 PM I think the reason everyone assumes that an elemental can't be knocked unconcious is because in almost every case of meeting an elemental it's a summoned one, and summoned creatures always vanish back to where they came from when they reach 0 hp, but if an elemental was actually brought to the material plane with a calling spell (like gate, planar ally, or planar binding) then it would actually exist in the material realm and could be knocked out.
tarkin
06-23-04, 02:15 PM You want elemental wierdness?

Compare Earth elementals and Xorn.

They both can travel through solid earth.

But only Xorn have tremor sense.

Earth ELementals only have Darkvision, which of course does not see through earth.

In orther words, Earth Elementals are COMPLETELY blind, being unable to sense even the metals that they eat while traveling in their preferred medium.

They can only sense things when they come out into the air.
Beware of Kobold
06-23-04, 02:30 PM that is unusual... i wonder how the earth elementals get around their own plane since it's mostly solid earth. I guess they just wander aimlessly unable to see until they run into something or someone.
Incensius
06-23-04, 05:00 PM Yeah...i can picture it:
earth elemental: AAAH! who's there?
earthelemental2: It's me....george
earth elemental: Oh...yeah....hey let's go for some air so i can see you!
earthelemental2: Sure thing....now where was that cavern again.......????!!!!

Mat ;)
Shemeska the Marauder
06-23-04, 07:16 PM knocking something unconscious is, at least flavor-wise, dependant on it having a mortal type physiology and body that you can beat on till it blacks out. Elementals, not having anything close to a physiology in the mortal sense, reflected in their not being subject to critical hits, etc shouldn't be subject to being knocked unconscious.

The 'rules' may not explicitely state it as such, but that's my reasoning behind it here.

And you can kill them off their home plane, unless they're summoned in which case they just get shunted back to their native plane when killed. The whole 'can only be killed on X plane' is more an outer planar thing, and sadly it wasn't put into the 3e rules anywhere. It's more unwritten tradition than it is based on the rules of any one specific edition.

Planescape which dealth with all of this and formed the basis (but in more detail) for the 3e planar material had for instance: Arcanaloths could only be killed in Gehenna. Ultroloths could only be killed in the Gray Waste. Dhergoloths could only be killed 'outside' of the 3 planes of conflict (gehenna, waste, carceri). Of course any time a Yugoloth is killed a new mezzoloth is spawned from underneath one of the 3 great 'loth towers so as a race they're rather difficult to kill. At least for the 3 planes of conflict, they are their planes, and the planes are them...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Beware of Kobold 06-22-04, 03:11 PM	it seems wierd but is there any reason why an elemental can't be knocked unconcious with nonlethal damage, or by going below 0 hp?
yonman 06-22-04, 03:19 PM	I couldn't find anything specific about it elementals being knocked unconscious, but I would say No. They can't be affected by sleep, don't sleep, and immune to stun and paralysis. IMHO that is practically everything but unconsciousness.
Krelios 06-22-04, 03:20 PM	They don't take nonlethal damage and die immediately upon reaching 0 hp, so they can't be knocked unconscious.
Beware of Kobold 06-23-04, 03:02 AM	Krelios: where does it say they dont take non-lethal damage and die at 0 hp? and Yonman: elves aren't afected by sleep spells but can be knocked unconcious
SuperJohan 06-23-04, 07:20 AM	Probable the same as an Invisible Stalker. The elemental will go back to his own plane and he can be killed on his own plane!
Krelios 06-23-04, 10:53 AM	Beware of Kobold, I'll be darned, I can't find it. Undead say they don't take nonlethal and die at 0 because they aren't alive. I've never considered Elementals to be any more "alive" than undead so I guess I've been house-ruling that. According to the rules, they can take non-lethal and can fall unconscious at negative hitpoints--even though they're immune to stunning and paralysis. That is wierd.
Beware of Kobold 06-23-04, 02:02 PM	I think the reason everyone assumes that an elemental can't be knocked unconcious is because in almost every case of meeting an elemental it's a summoned one, and summoned creatures always vanish back to where they came from when they reach 0 hp, but if an elemental was actually brought to the material plane with a calling spell (like gate, planar ally, or planar binding) then it would actually exist in the material realm and could be knocked out.
tarkin 06-23-04, 02:15 PM	You want elemental wierdness? Compare Earth elementals and Xorn. They both can travel through solid earth. But only Xorn have tremor sense. Earth ELementals only have Darkvision, which of course does not see through earth. In orther words, Earth Elementals are COMPLETELY blind, being unable to sense even the metals that they eat while traveling in their preferred medium. They can only sense things when they come out into the air.
Beware of Kobold 06-23-04, 02:30 PM	that is unusual... i wonder how the earth elementals get around their own plane since it's mostly solid earth. I guess they just wander aimlessly unable to see until they run into something or someone.
Incensius 06-23-04, 05:00 PM	Yeah...i can picture it: earth elemental: AAAH! who's there? earthelemental2: It's me....george earth elemental: Oh...yeah....hey let's go for some air so i can see you! earthelemental2: Sure thing....now where was that cavern again.......????!!!! Mat ;)
Shemeska the Marauder 06-23-04, 07:16 PM	knocking something unconscious is, at least flavor-wise, dependant on it having a mortal type physiology and body that you can beat on till it blacks out. Elementals, not having anything close to a physiology in the mortal sense, reflected in their not being subject to critical hits, etc shouldn't be subject to being knocked unconscious. The 'rules' may not explicitely state it as such, but that's my reasoning behind it here. And you can kill them off their home plane, unless they're summoned in which case they just get shunted back to their native plane when killed. The whole 'can only be killed on X plane' is more an outer planar thing, and sadly it wasn't put into the 3e rules anywhere. It's more unwritten tradition than it is based on the rules of any one specific edition. Planescape which dealth with all of this and formed the basis (but in more detail) for the 3e planar material had for instance: Arcanaloths could only be killed in Gehenna. Ultroloths could only be killed in the Gray Waste. Dhergoloths could only be killed 'outside' of the 3 planes of conflict (gehenna, waste, carceri). Of course any time a Yugoloth is killed a new mezzoloth is spawned from underneath one of the 3 great 'loth towers so as a race they're rather difficult to kill. At least for the 3 planes of conflict, they are their planes, and the planes are them...