Post/Author/DateTime	Post
sorites 01-30-06, 10:08 PM	I'm designing an adventure for 1st-level characters and want to include an Elf Ranger who died and was then animated as a skeleton via animate dead. From what I'm seeing, a regular Elf Ranger gets a 21 Dex as a skeleton. This might get a tad long so bear with me. First, we start with the (living) NPC Elf Ranger. Since he's an NPC with a PC class, he gets the elite array for ability scores (DMG 111), and he'll obviously put his 17 into Dex. Next, we apply the NPC Adjustment, 'Elf, High (Common)', which gives a +2 Dex (DMG 127). So the living NPC Ranger has a 19 Dex. Once he's dead and we animate him, he gets another +2 Dex bonus. That makes his Dex 21, and he can use a longbow (composite longbow if you want to get mean about it) as an Elf Ranger Skeleton. I guess that's fine, but since he's only 1HD, he gets reduced to CR1/3 as a skeleton. A whole bunch of these things could be very nasty since they get AC 17, +9 Init, and +5 ranged with their longbows. That's a lot of bang for your buck if you're a DM on a budget.
runestar 01-30-06, 10:15 PM	High elf is essentially your moon elf from the PHB. So what you are doing is essentially adding the racial dex bonus twice. It should only have a dex of 19. But it does look strong. Though I recall something about the limited intelligence of animated undead. Might have some trouble controlling them though. :confused:
sorites 01-30-06, 10:54 PM	Respectfully, I'm only adding the racial bonus once. My calculation is as follows: 17 Dex (base score, from the elite array) + 2 Dex (racial bonus) + 2 Dex (skeleton template) = 21 Dex I agree, it (almost) seems too powerful. Anyone else? Anyone see a reason for it to not be CR1/3?
Emeramber 01-30-06, 11:03 PM	It would be a CR1 by the Monster Manual (294) because it uses the elite array but isn't advanced by class levels.
steventirey1985 01-30-06, 11:28 PM	Respectfully, I'm only adding the racial bonus once. My calculation is as follows: 17 Dex (base score, from the elite array) + 2 Dex (racial bonus) + 2 Dex (skeleton template) = 21 Dex I agree, it (almost) seems too powerful. Anyone else? Anyone see a reason for it to not be CR1/3? Bolded for correction: the elite array is 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 so it should be: 15 Dex (base score from the elite array) +2 Dex (racial bonus) +2 Dex (skeleton template) = 19 Dex
Wyrd Bearer 01-30-06, 11:37 PM	Elite Array: The elite array is 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. While the monster has one weakness compared to a typical member of its race, it is significantly better overall. The elite array is most appropriate for monsters who add levels in a player character class.Hmm, the elite array (DMG 169) that I'm used to has a 15 as the best score prior to racial adjustments. So the elf before his death would have a Dex of 17 if he put the 15 in it to start. Then the skeleton template increases the Dex to a 19, for a total of a +4 Dex mod (*edit* Ah, I was beaten too it, darn my slow typing(. So this ranger will have a +5 to hit with a +2 to damage of the bow, tops (assuming the 14 was put in Str and is armed with a composite bow, unlikely given the ). Eh, if you wish, make him CR 1, though I think that with its lack of any Intelligence, it really can't make good use of tactics (at least, it shouldn't). It'll die fast to a balanced party on its own, though it will likely get a single shot off as it has a good Initiative modifier. End result, one of the party members hurt, though a cleric or a cure light potion will fix that. And the party will be up one composite bow and whatever armour the skellie was wearing.
sorites 01-31-06, 09:45 AM	Doh. (sheepish) Yep, the elite array I'm used to has 15 as its highest ability score too. How could I have missed that (twice)? Thanks for catching my mistake. I was only applying the racial bonus once, but I was starting with a 17 instead of a 15. Whoops. After thinking about it (and correcting his Dex), I think CR1/3 is fine for the Elf Ranger Skeleton. He has no melee weapon, so if the PCs close to attack him, he generates an attack of opportunity when he fires the bow. Plus, he doesn't get the benefit of the heavy steel shield the Human Warrior Skeleton has in the MM. And as has already been pointed out, the lack of Intelligence makes him a predictable oppononent to say the least.
Melpomene 01-31-06, 10:25 AM	With the exception of the bone template from the BoVD and the skelitons as PCs section of LM, there really isn't a justification for assuming the skeliton remembers anything of his former life. When he was raised with Raise Dead, he ceases to be an elite array elvish ranger and begins a wonderful new life as a medium humanoid 1HD skeliton. You can give him a bow and tack an elite array on him, of course, but the reminants of his former life are all destroyed.
sorites 01-31-06, 12:27 PM	With the exception of the bone template from the BoVD and the skelitons as PCs section of LM, there really isn't a justification for assuming the skeliton remembers anything of his former life. When he was raised with Raise Dead, he ceases to be an elite array elvish ranger and begins a wonderful new life as a medium humanoid 1HD skeliton. You can give him a bow and tack an elite array on him, of course, but the reminants of his former life are all destroyed. I agree, the Elf Ranger Skeleton won't remember anything from his former life, except for his ability to use a bow. According to the skeleton template (MM), the base creature's stats are modified in several ways. The STR of the base creature remains the same, and it gets +2 Dex. The skeleton also retains its ability to use any weapons it knew how to use in life. Since the Elf Ranger was killed and then transformed into a skeleton (animate dead), he still has the longbow he used in life and he knows how to use it. I didn't use the elite array to make the skeleton; I used the elite array to create the NPC Elf Ranger that subsequently died. That's the 'base creature' to which the skeleton template was applied. Does that make sense?