Encounter help needed, Black dragon [Archive] - Wizards Community

Encounter help needed, Black dragon [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kord's Boon
03-06-08, 11:02 PM I’m DMing a game and to round off a long dungeon crawl I’m considering sending my players against a young adult black dragon (large size CR 9) that had preciously menaced them.

The fight would take place in the dragon’s lair when the players discover a back entrance the dragon is not aware of. So with any planning they should be able to attack when the dragon goes to sleeps.

Party consists of 6-7 players, mix of levels 5 and 6 non-optimized

2 barbarians
1 fighter
1 druid
1 cleric
1 paladin
1 wizard

I would like to ask for advice on how I should run the dragon, or any other helpful information concerning an encounter of this type. I want it to be difficult and would be comfortable with killing one of two during the fight (they have access to a resurrection spell back at their home base). On the other hand I’m afraid they might simply overpower the dragon on the first round with appropriate debuffs etc.
Garryl
03-07-08, 12:42 AM Use flight to your advantage. Fly out of melee reach and bombard the party with its breath weapon, aiming for casters and ranged combatants.
Put in some traps. Use some of the dragon's hoard of magical items. Keep an escape route open.

If your dragon has put maximum ranks into Use Magic Device, I could see it being rather deadly against a 5th level party with a wand of Enervation. 19 ranks + 12 Cha = +20 bonus on UMD, so to use a wand, he would only fail on a 1. Combine with a wand of Enervation (ranged attack bonus should be +16), and he can kill someone in 2 rounds most of the time. Even if he only gets one or two shots off, that person should have gained a few negative levels, possibly pushing him below the 4 HD mark required to be shaken instead of panicked by the dragon's Frightful Presence ability. Mind you, the 21,000 gp price tag might be a bit much. Remember, the Frightful Presence (DC 19) only triggers on attacking, charging, or flying overhead. If you want to make sure that nobody saves and becomes immune before getting panicked from lowered levels, try to avoid the aforementioned actions.

Your dragon's breath weapon is an 80" line. I'd love to see him ambush the party at the end of an 80-100" long, 10" wide corridor at the entrance to his lair. Round one, dragon breathes his breath weapon, hitting everyone that isn't at the back end of the hall, then flies up to hide in a small alcove 30-50" above the tunnel. Have some pit traps hidden near the dragon's side of this corridor to catch anyone who tries to charge him before he can act. By the time that the party gets inside, the breath weapon should have cooled down and be ready for use again. I'd also like to suggest at least one large (8" diameter) Indiana Jones style boulder to roll down this passage as well. It might not have much trouble skipping over any pits that are just 5" long (DM's ruling, though), or it could crush someone stuck in a slightly larger pit.
Another possible option is to have a large, heavy door (iron at hardness 10 and 30 hp/inch of thickness could stall for some time) of some sort with a hatch large enough for the dragon to fire its breath attack through. Open hatch, breathe, close hatch, wait, repeat. If you're really nasty, have the dragon hold the aforementioned Indiana Jones boulder ready to roll down the corridor as a readied action for when the door is opened or knocked down.

As a young adult dragon, your dragon can cast spells as a 1st level sorcerer. Don't forget that you can also take spells from the cleric spell list and certain cleric domains. There isn't much available at low levels among Core spells, but Sanctuary can be an emergency escape spell, and Mage Armor can help a bit with the dragon's AC.
runestar
03-07-08, 01:11 AM As a young adult dragon, your dragon can cast spells as a 1st level sorcerer. Don't forget that you can also take spells from the cleric spell list and certain cleric domains. There isn't much available at low levels among Core spells, but Sanctuary can be an emergency escape spell, and Mage Armor can help a bit with the dragon's AC.

Black dragons don't get such a benefit, IIRC. The red dragon should be the only chromatic dragon with the ability to learn cleric spells as sorc spells.

It is not a gone case though. Your black dragon can learn mage armour and shield, which should boost its AC to a respectable degree (but be careful not to boost it so high that your PCs cannot hit it save for a natural 20). Watch out for dispel magic though.

For feats, give it multiattack, improved multiattack (ELH, or try the SRD), power attack, flyby attack and maybe improved initiative, ability focus or rapidstrike. This removes the to-hit penalties for its secondary weapons.

Do you want the PCs to face it immediately, or have the dragon wear it down first with hit-and-run attacks while they face its minions?

Combat should be fairly straighforward. Move into position and open up with a breath weapon (which activates frightful presence). In subsequent rounds, use flyby attack to strike tactically at PCs. Breathe whenever it recharges. Full attack when you have the chance (but if surrounded, you may want to consider splitting up your attacks amongst multiple PCs so you don't kill them so quickly).
JLaurHughes
03-07-08, 01:37 AM Alarm. Any dragon worth its scales will have an alarm spell on their lairs and on their treasure. Mostly a proximity alarm that is silent - only alerting the dragon that someone is near the treasure or someone is coming to the lair.

Black dragons are more often found in marshy areas, so definitely think of a marsh/swampy cave. Juveniles will still know that laying just beow the surface of the water will help them ambush stupid and careless adventurers.

Finally> Black dragons are especially fond of coins. Older dragons sometimes capture and question humanoids about stockpiles of gold, silver, and platinum coins before killing them.
Dead_Weasel
03-07-08, 01:56 AM The above posters have solid advice on dragon encounters (oh, and Blues also get cleric spells), but something a bit less conventional could be more interesting.

If the dragon's lair is an underground river or lake with very little headroom, it could inconvenience the taller (in this case, Medium) characters - particularly once the party discovers that the shallow and dry areas in the lair are heavily trapped; the 'safe' areas where they can stand can quickly become dangerous with the proper application of darkness. Feats like Sahuagin Flip or Swim-By Attack (assuming that you have Stormwrack) solidify (liquidate?) the dragon's aquatic advantages.

Just a thought.
Space_Dragon
03-07-08, 02:25 AM I agree with the above poster. Black dragons are amphibious, so its overwhelmingly probable he would work that into his defenses. He can fly and swim with equal ease; a huge, partly flooded cave with lots of pit traps and hidden tunnels would be a good idea.
Kord's Boon
03-07-08, 02:58 AM Well that was prodigiously helpful, thank you all very much.

The cavern the dragon rests in is dry and about 50ft across, only accessible by a 15ft wide flooded tunnel that emerges into the room to form a small pond. Unfortunately for the dragon, this cave was an escape route for another underground stronghold long out of use, and is unaware that a command word spoken at the other end causes a 100ft long tunnel to form (via stone to mud) directly into his chamber.

With the information you have provided my I think I’ll have several options.

By default the dragon will be sleeping, but if my adventures are careless and wake him as they proceed down the tunnel the dragon can use his breath weapon. If the dragon becomes bloodied at any point during the fight he can retreat to the flooded tunnel, where he’ll have time to mage-armor etc. before returning to the fray.
Quizzit
03-12-08, 08:33 AM Hey guys, pardon the bump (although the thread isn't that old) but I wanted to get more info off of this very same subject as I am planning an encounter with a black dragon myself.

The party I have is 7 members all 8th lvl

Pally
Hexblade
Ranger
Wizard x2
Cleric
Rogue

First off, Kord how'd the encounter go? was anything too easy?

Also, I have had bad luck pitting the party against a single stong creature. If the party wins initiative, the thing was lucky if it lasted a round.

I understand that using harrasing tactics is what a dragon would do, but have you guys had "better" encounters with low CR minions to tangle up the party? Or is the the single dragon sufficiant?

Lastly, what age? I was thinking Adult (CR 11) but perhapps lower it to Young Adult (CR 9) if it has minions?

additional input is greatly qappreceated.

:)
Derren S.
03-14-08, 09:27 AM Don't forget the dragons blindsense. Theoretically it should alert the dragon when someone gets close to it even when it sleeps or at least allow for some skill checks depending on your ruling.
Dead_Weasel
03-15-08, 02:48 AM Don't forget the dragons blindsense. Theoretically it should alert the dragon when someone gets close to it even when it sleeps or at least allow for some skill checks depending on your ruling.This is why darkness (usually a losing proposition for everyone) makes an effective tactic for dragons and devils, as well as other creatures with unusual senses.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kord's Boon 03-06-08, 11:02 PM	I’m DMing a game and to round off a long dungeon crawl I’m considering sending my players against a young adult black dragon (large size CR 9) that had preciously menaced them. The fight would take place in the dragon’s lair when the players discover a back entrance the dragon is not aware of. So with any planning they should be able to attack when the dragon goes to sleeps. Party consists of 6-7 players, mix of levels 5 and 6 non-optimized 2 barbarians 1 fighter 1 druid 1 cleric 1 paladin 1 wizard I would like to ask for advice on how I should run the dragon, or any other helpful information concerning an encounter of this type. I want it to be difficult and would be comfortable with killing one of two during the fight (they have access to a resurrection spell back at their home base). On the other hand I’m afraid they might simply overpower the dragon on the first round with appropriate debuffs etc.
Garryl 03-07-08, 12:42 AM	Use flight to your advantage. Fly out of melee reach and bombard the party with its breath weapon, aiming for casters and ranged combatants. Put in some traps. Use some of the dragon's hoard of magical items. Keep an escape route open. If your dragon has put maximum ranks into Use Magic Device, I could see it being rather deadly against a 5th level party with a wand of Enervation. 19 ranks + 12 Cha = +20 bonus on UMD, so to use a wand, he would only fail on a 1. Combine with a wand of Enervation (ranged attack bonus should be +16), and he can kill someone in 2 rounds most of the time. Even if he only gets one or two shots off, that person should have gained a few negative levels, possibly pushing him below the 4 HD mark required to be shaken instead of panicked by the dragon's Frightful Presence ability. Mind you, the 21,000 gp price tag might be a bit much. Remember, the Frightful Presence (DC 19) only triggers on attacking, charging, or flying overhead. If you want to make sure that nobody saves and becomes immune before getting panicked from lowered levels, try to avoid the aforementioned actions. Your dragon's breath weapon is an 80" line. I'd love to see him ambush the party at the end of an 80-100" long, 10" wide corridor at the entrance to his lair. Round one, dragon breathes his breath weapon, hitting everyone that isn't at the back end of the hall, then flies up to hide in a small alcove 30-50" above the tunnel. Have some pit traps hidden near the dragon's side of this corridor to catch anyone who tries to charge him before he can act. By the time that the party gets inside, the breath weapon should have cooled down and be ready for use again. I'd also like to suggest at least one large (8" diameter) Indiana Jones style boulder to roll down this passage as well. It might not have much trouble skipping over any pits that are just 5" long (DM's ruling, though), or it could crush someone stuck in a slightly larger pit. Another possible option is to have a large, heavy door (iron at hardness 10 and 30 hp/inch of thickness could stall for some time) of some sort with a hatch large enough for the dragon to fire its breath attack through. Open hatch, breathe, close hatch, wait, repeat. If you're really nasty, have the dragon hold the aforementioned Indiana Jones boulder ready to roll down the corridor as a readied action for when the door is opened or knocked down. As a young adult dragon, your dragon can cast spells as a 1st level sorcerer. Don't forget that you can also take spells from the cleric spell list and certain cleric domains. There isn't much available at low levels among Core spells, but Sanctuary can be an emergency escape spell, and Mage Armor can help a bit with the dragon's AC.
runestar 03-07-08, 01:11 AM	As a young adult dragon, your dragon can cast spells as a 1st level sorcerer. Don't forget that you can also take spells from the cleric spell list and certain cleric domains. There isn't much available at low levels among Core spells, but Sanctuary can be an emergency escape spell, and Mage Armor can help a bit with the dragon's AC. Black dragons don't get such a benefit, IIRC. The red dragon should be the only chromatic dragon with the ability to learn cleric spells as sorc spells. It is not a gone case though. Your black dragon can learn mage armour and shield, which should boost its AC to a respectable degree (but be careful not to boost it so high that your PCs cannot hit it save for a natural 20). Watch out for dispel magic though. For feats, give it multiattack, improved multiattack (ELH, or try the SRD), power attack, flyby attack and maybe improved initiative, ability focus or rapidstrike. This removes the to-hit penalties for its secondary weapons. Do you want the PCs to face it immediately, or have the dragon wear it down first with hit-and-run attacks while they face its minions? Combat should be fairly straighforward. Move into position and open up with a breath weapon (which activates frightful presence). In subsequent rounds, use flyby attack to strike tactically at PCs. Breathe whenever it recharges. Full attack when you have the chance (but if surrounded, you may want to consider splitting up your attacks amongst multiple PCs so you don't kill them so quickly).
JLaurHughes 03-07-08, 01:37 AM	Alarm. Any dragon worth its scales will have an alarm spell on their lairs and on their treasure. Mostly a proximity alarm that is silent - only alerting the dragon that someone is near the treasure or someone is coming to the lair. Black dragons are more often found in marshy areas, so definitely think of a marsh/swampy cave. Juveniles will still know that laying just beow the surface of the water will help them ambush stupid and careless adventurers. Finally> Black dragons are especially fond of coins. Older dragons sometimes capture and question humanoids about stockpiles of gold, silver, and platinum coins before killing them.
Dead_Weasel 03-07-08, 01:56 AM	The above posters have solid advice on dragon encounters (oh, and Blues also get cleric spells), but something a bit less conventional could be more interesting. If the dragon's lair is an underground river or lake with very little headroom, it could inconvenience the taller (in this case, Medium) characters - particularly once the party discovers that the shallow and dry areas in the lair are heavily trapped; the 'safe' areas where they can stand can quickly become dangerous with the proper application of darkness. Feats like Sahuagin Flip or Swim-By Attack (assuming that you have Stormwrack) solidify (liquidate?) the dragon's aquatic advantages. Just a thought.
Space_Dragon 03-07-08, 02:25 AM	I agree with the above poster. Black dragons are amphibious, so its overwhelmingly probable he would work that into his defenses. He can fly and swim with equal ease; a huge, partly flooded cave with lots of pit traps and hidden tunnels would be a good idea.
Kord's Boon 03-07-08, 02:58 AM	Well that was prodigiously helpful, thank you all very much. The cavern the dragon rests in is dry and about 50ft across, only accessible by a 15ft wide flooded tunnel that emerges into the room to form a small pond. Unfortunately for the dragon, this cave was an escape route for another underground stronghold long out of use, and is unaware that a command word spoken at the other end causes a 100ft long tunnel to form (via stone to mud) directly into his chamber. With the information you have provided my I think I’ll have several options. By default the dragon will be sleeping, but if my adventures are careless and wake him as they proceed down the tunnel the dragon can use his breath weapon. If the dragon becomes bloodied at any point during the fight he can retreat to the flooded tunnel, where he’ll have time to mage-armor etc. before returning to the fray.
Quizzit 03-12-08, 08:33 AM	Hey guys, pardon the bump (although the thread isn't that old) but I wanted to get more info off of this very same subject as I am planning an encounter with a black dragon myself. The party I have is 7 members all 8th lvl Pally Hexblade Ranger Wizard x2 Cleric Rogue First off, Kord how'd the encounter go? was anything too easy? Also, I have had bad luck pitting the party against a single stong creature. If the party wins initiative, the thing was lucky if it lasted a round. I understand that using harrasing tactics is what a dragon would do, but have you guys had "better" encounters with low CR minions to tangle up the party? Or is the the single dragon sufficiant? Lastly, what age? I was thinking Adult (CR 11) but perhapps lower it to Young Adult (CR 9) if it has minions? additional input is greatly qappreceated. :)
Derren S. 03-14-08, 09:27 AM	Don't forget the dragons blindsense. Theoretically it should alert the dragon when someone gets close to it even when it sleeps or at least allow for some skill checks depending on your ruling.
Dead_Weasel 03-15-08, 02:48 AM	Don't forget the dragons blindsense. Theoretically it should alert the dragon when someone gets close to it even when it sleeps or at least allow for some skill checks depending on your ruling.This is why darkness (usually a losing proposition for everyone) makes an effective tactic for dragons and devils, as well as other creatures with unusual senses.