Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BeSc 07-05-07, 01:04 AM	:D This happened in my d&d group a while back. What happened is that the party all fell into a 350ft floor pit trap, then a goblin comes out and because the party was mostly fighters (the wizards were all away sick strangely enough, and the people with bows were off camping or at family functions) and 1 person with a single bow on him (but the full range wasnt enough to reach the goblin). Anyway, the goblin started throwing rocks down at the party. The DM (being a uni student physicist) factored in gravity and multiplied so that the rocks did obscene amounts of damage when they hit. Anyway, it took 32 rounds but eventually the whole party was dead and the goblin ended up becoming the leader of its tribe according to the DM (because of all the PC levels it suddenly got) Goblin (killer): Hi guys guess what I just killed a party of adventurers! Goblin (group): So??? Goblin (killer): That means I'm now youre new leader! Goblin (group): Huh?? What you mean??? How come you speak good now??? Hey! Whered that Bag of Holding come from???? :confused: :confused: :confused: Goblin (killer): MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Rerecros 07-05-07, 01:09 AM	your DM is a knob. rocks are impovised thrown weapons, they would be easy to avoid and wouldn't do much damage. Knowledge of real world physics is moot in D&D.
Ront Iron-Roar 07-05-07, 03:44 AM	Sounds like a redo... As happy I am for the goblin I think something like that is unfair to your party. Especially to the members of them not there. My suggeston the next time when your DM is doing his adventure and there absent players, run encounters that cater specifically to the current abilities of the current players.
skydin 07-05-07, 03:47 AM	well i like it, it sounds cool, and if i were to die, i would want to make a goblin a level 10 fighter in hte process (the stupid goblin would of course, choose fighter)
Obergnom 07-06-07, 06:57 AM	I like it when things like that happen. Alltough I am supprised no one was able to climb up to the goblin... 12th level fighters should be pretty good at that, shouldn't they? and it would not have taken them much more then 10 rounds (get out of that full plates!) and as your DM likes to factor in physics he should have lessend the damage for every 10ft the fighters climbed. Concerning the noob comment, actually my group would be rather confused if those boulders would not do descent damage but they should not have a very high chance to hit. But then, half of my group consists of physicists...
HuManBing 07-06-07, 09:42 AM	First off, as a matter of mechanics and physics, your DM ruled correctly. That's why pit traps work so well. If the creature inside doesn't break a bone or otherwise suffer injuries that will eventually kill them (and in DnD's mechanics, they won't, unless the fall itself takes them to -1 or lower hp), then the next best feature of a pit trap is to contain them so you can throw stuff down on them. Depending on how narrow the trap was, and assuming the goblin had a large supply of boulders, the probability of a PC being hit by a boulder would be more or less inevitable given time. And given plenty of time, the probability of suffering enough damage to lead to death was an eventuality, not just a possibility. Secondly, although this is interesting from an anecdotal viewpoint, the DM was not fair in doing this. Your party was lacking its spellcasters and ranged combatants. The remaining fighters appeared to have had no luck in climbing back out. Certainly from a "grim 'n' gritty" perspective, the DM broke no rules in killing the party... but he didn't exactly play fair. How big was the pit? The larger the pit, the longer it will take for the goblin's thrown boulders to actually hit somebody, because of mobility. (This goes especially true if there's light enough for the occupants of the pit to see the incoming boulders.) If the pit was smaller, then the goblin gets more chance of hitting enemies in it, but then also the occupants can start climbing out more easily. (And you have to wonder how the entire party got trapped if it's in a very small pit.) PCs armed with shovels and picks can tunnel or dig out little holes to shelter themselves under. (Then the goblin could counteract this by flooding the pit...)
lint trap 07-06-07, 09:44 AM	I'd argue that the 350 ft. pit killed the party, not the single goblin.
M1kh43l_P4r4d1s0 07-06-07, 09:53 AM	I've noticed that some people have been referring to the gobli throwing boulders. I believe that you are wrong in this aspect. I believe the goblin was throwing rocks, or "bullets" like for a sling? If you throw those bullets, then you are using a weapon you are proficient with, so long as you have simple weapon proficiency. I find it rather hard for the goblin to have been throwing boulders. Also, your bow should have reached. It's a little thing called range increasement, where you take -1 or -2 for every full range that your shot goes ove the "limit." Your DM was wrong, and wanted to kill the party.
BeSc 07-06-07, 10:23 AM	Yes, you are all right with the info i gave, but some small facts were missing. 1st fact - falling damage and "break DC's" Yes the falling damage really hurt some people, quite badly in fact, i think three people died from it... also, the fact was, that since the DM was factoring in gravity (the campaign was fairly "real worldish") and there was no way to break our falls, he rolled percentile dice to see where we landed and how we landed. This caused the few people with bows (all on their backs at the time cos they weren't needed) to actually, by a huge freak of dice rolling nature, to land on their backs, and only one bow survived this. 2nd fact - the filling of the trap Yes, this goblin had been waiting for some new food, so he dug the hole himself over a fair few years, thats where all the rocks he had were coming from, the fact is, he started to fill up the hole, and people for some reason just couldn't climb out of the rising level of rocks. 3rd fact - party prejudices Just like i am with bards (see sig), almost all of the party, minus me and one other i will call :confused: :confused: :confused: (ding) "david" (yes this is a made up name, not one of the party members, well actually it was his PC's name :D ) well all but us two thought climb was a waste of time skill and didnt have 'any' ranks in it, and only had 8's at best. Well the climb was DC21 (it was pretty sheer unless you knew where the handholds were (which the goblin did)) and people just couldnt seem to get it for some reason, i didnt even get it, and i had 15 as my climb score (i rolled really bad that night) 4th fact - Gravity (once more) The surviving bow, a 'shortbow', was left with very bad chance of hitting, as the DM, being a physicist in training and wanting to test his knowledge of physics, went and found what we all thought was a reasonable speed for the arrow to be coming out of the bow at. He then went and readjusted it using gravity, so that when it got to the top of the shaft, it was actually going pretty slowly, thus 'possibly' reducing damage (we didnt use this) but 'definitely' lowering 'to hit' as the goblin would see this coming. 5th fact - it didnt matter I know most of you have been saying the DM was being a tool, but he wasnt. He had heard most of us describing our assumptions of the game, and wanted us to learn something from it. Needless to say, none of the group there on the night has made a character with the climb class skill 'not' have ranks in it (most are maxed out in it lol) but also, most of their characters without the class skill have boots of levitation so its all good now and people have grown to be better players from this. Also, everyone that was among the deceased now makes it a point to carry a crossbow or composite longbow. :D
M1kh43l_P4r4d1s0 07-06-07, 10:37 AM	Yes, you are all right with the info i gave, but some small facts were missing. 1st fact - falling damage and "break DC's" Yes the falling damage really hurt some people, quite badly in fact, i think three people died from it... also, the fact was, that since the DM was factoring in gravity (the campaign was fairly "real worldish") and there was no way to break our falls, he rolled percentile dice to see where we landed and how we landed. This caused the few people with bows (all on their backs at the time cos they weren't needed) to actually, by a huge freak of dice rolling nature, to land on their backs, and only one bow survived this. This actually is kind of fair, however, this is blatantly house rule, and therefore, I can't really complain on mechanics. However, there already is a falling damage rule in the DMG. It factors in gravity, and that is the damage multiplier you get for falling long distances. 2nd fact - the filling of the trap Yes, this goblin had been waiting for some new food, so he dug the hole himself over a fair few years, thats where all the rocks he had were coming from, the fact is, he started to fill up the hole, and people for some reason just couldn't climb out of the rising level of rocks. The gobli couldn't have trown this many rocks, so you are wrong. 3rd fact - party prejudices Just like i am with bards (see sig), almost all of the party, minus me and one other i will call :confused: :confused: :confused: (ding) "david" (yes this is a made up name, not one of the party members, well actually it was his PC's name :D ) well all but us two thought climb was a waste of time skill and didnt have 'any' ranks in it, and only had 8's at best. Well the climb was DC21 (it was pretty sheer unless you knew where the handholds were (which the goblin did)) and people just couldnt seem to get it for some reason, i didnt even get it, and i had 15 as my climb score (i rolled really bad that night) Yeah, you really need to at least thinking of taking the "useful skills" or using aid another. 4th fact - Gravity (once more) The surviving bow, a 'shortbow', was left with very bad chance of hitting, as the DM, being a physicist in training and wanting to test his knowledge of physics, went and found what we all thought was a reasonable speed for the arrow to be coming out of the bow at. He then went and readjusted it using gravity, so that when it got to the top of the shaft, it was actually going pretty slowly, thus 'possibly' reducing damage (we didnt use this) but 'definitely' lowering 'to hit' as the goblin would see this coming. This he shouldn't have done. It is unfair against the players, and I bet he wouldn't have done this against himself. 5th fact - it didnt matter I know most of you have been saying the DM was being a tool, but he wasnt. He had heard most of us describing our assumptions of the game, and wanted us to learn something from it. Needless to say, none of the group there on the night has made a character with the climb class skill 'not' have ranks in it (most are maxed out in it lol) but also, most of their characters without the class skill have boots of levitation so its all good now and people have grown to be better players from this. Also, everyone that was among the deceased now makes it a point to carry a crossbow or composite longbow. :D At least you all have learned to plan ahead. Party: Now we know! DM: And knowing is half the battle.
Sarlax 07-06-07, 11:20 AM	Yes, this goblin had been waiting for some new food, so he dug the hole himself over a fair few years Wait, what? Goblins must be able to go a long time without food in this game world.
BeSc 07-06-07, 07:20 PM	nah, he was living off all the rats in the dungeon, there were thousands of them, the week before we had faced 5 swarms of them!!!!!:eek: he needed a bit of variety in his diet
locustechpriest 07-06-07, 08:46 PM	I guess that was somewhat legitimate... like #10 said (I have no desire to tackle that name... sry), it's houserules. I would have taken the given stats for falling objects and damage from the DMG (which caps damage to account for terminal velocity), and unless he was literally calculating a "forces to dices" equation that he made, I suggest leaving real world physics out of it. Don't do things halfway, says I. Oh, the goblin could only have gotten one level. That's the cap, and then he would need to have training as well. (The cap is explained in the PHB at the end of the Classes section.) Overall, it wouldn't have happened under my watch. Then again, it wasn't my watch...
MCage 07-07-07, 12:52 PM	its Mikhael Paradiso or M1kh43l_P4r4d1s0...anyway the fact is physics are just too easy to abuse, the hulking hurler build for example takes it to the extreme end of abuse. My real question is are the local kobolds being put to shame over a goblin rocking a whole PC party with a trap?
BeSc 07-07-07, 09:06 PM	hmmmmm.... the kobolds being shamed cos a goblin pulled a stunt more likely for them to pull? I dont know.....
Salla 07-07-07, 11:00 PM	Yeah, you learned something. That DM is a twit.
zhaunil 07-12-07, 10:20 PM	Sounds like your DM needs to give up physics cause 350ft isn't far enough for something of such light weight as a stone that a goblin can throw to accellerate enough to even sting. The whole "Drop a penny off of a tall building and you can kill someone" thing is a myth. If you did that you probably wouldn't even break the skin. Also, while shooting down does not degrade the speed of the projectile, dropping something causes wind resistance as the object tumbles, this wind resistance could then sheer the projectile off to the side actually decreasing the odds it would hit if you were going to go for realism, a deviation of a fraction of an inch over 350ft would miss by a few feet.
TheCobra 07-13-07, 12:09 AM	Sounds like your DM needs to give up physics cause 350ft isn't far enough for something of such light weight as a stone that a goblin can throw to accellerate enough to even sting. Eh, even a 2.2lb rock dropped 350 feet will get up to around 1000 J of kinetic energy. That's more than enough to ruin somebody's day. It's more kinetic energy than many handgun rounds, and much more momentum. By the rules, also, a 1-5lb rock falling 350 feet will deal 5d6 points of damage. And that's a small rock. An 11lb rock would deal 7d6 damage.
Ikyotojin 07-13-07, 12:36 AM	Wait a minute... have any of you even READ what Lint Trap posted? I took a job a LONG time ago and worked at the county morgue for 6 weeks... and have seen the effect of a 200' fall on a human body. "Chunky salsa" is not just something you find in a jar kids. I don't care what the physics major thinks - there wasn't anyone alive at the bottom of that pit for the rocks to kill.
Sildatorak 07-13-07, 02:18 AM	I took a job a LONG time ago and worked at the county morgue for 6 weeks... and have seen the effect of a 200' fall on a human body. "Chunky salsa" is not just something you find in a jar kids. That's what 20d6 damage will do to level 1 commoners. These were level 12 adventurers, though. Such heroes don't need to worry about things like "realism" and "physics." Seriously, though, keep your reality out of my D&D. TheCobra has the right answer. Use the existing falling objects rules. Either the goblin makes an attack roll (if he is aiming) or the PC's get a reflex save (if he is just sort of dropping them). All in all, he will eventually kill them, it is just going to take a long time. What I want to know is why didn't any of these characters strip the armor and start climbing?
guru7892 07-13-07, 03:02 AM	acually If your game was realistic your hole would be shorter. Simply no matter what biome you are in you would've hit bedrock before 350 feet in most cases. you may also run into an aquifer or even a confined aquifer that would cause even greater issues (drowning). and wouldnt a 350ft hole cave in due to pressure? you may be physicists, but I took the semsester apes course... (total chick class, but I acually learned a lot).
Meep326 07-13-07, 03:09 AM	I guess that was somewhat legitimate... like #10 said (I have no desire to tackle that name... sry), it's houserules. I would have taken the given stats for falling objects and damage from the DMG (which caps damage to account for terminal velocity), and unless he was literally calculating a "forces to dices" equation that he made, I suggest leaving real world physics out of it. Don't do things halfway, says I. Oh, the goblin could only have gotten one level. That's the cap, and then he would need to have training as well. (The cap is explained in the PHB at the end of the Classes section.) Overall, it wouldn't have happened under my watch. Then again, it wasn't my watch... Technically that's one level per session, and represents the testing of your newfound skills. You still gain the experience (unless it says you don't, havn't read it in a long time) but you gain the levels over time.
TheCobra 07-13-07, 02:47 PM	acually If your game was realistic your hole would be shorter. That depends. Deep holes certainly exist in our world. Making a hole 350ft deep but a only 10-20ft wide might be a little tough, though. I'm not sure.
Kensan_Oni 07-13-07, 06:40 PM	Look, guys... it's simple. DM set up a deathtrap, the players failed to spot it, failed their reflex and fell into a 350 foot trap. They survived the 20d6 of damage, they make their fort save vs. death, and they're now at the bottom of a pit that they can't escape from. The goblin is irrelevant to the situation. Players die of starvation or old age. Without a ungodly climb skill so that they don't fail after climbing halfway up the rediculously deep pit (How many civilizations dig pits this deep?), and no magical way out, they have no hope of escape. The DM is definatly not playing fairly or for the long hall, but what the goblin was doing doesn't mean a bloody thing. They were dead the moment they fell into the trap.
Ikyotojin 07-14-07, 09:28 AM	That's what 20d6 damage will do to level 1 commoners. These were level 12 adventurers, though. Such heroes don't need to worry about things like "realism" and "physics." Seriously, though, keep your reality out of my D&D. TheCobra has the right answer. Use the existing falling objects rules. Either the goblin makes an attack roll (if he is aiming) or the PC's get a reflex save (if he is just sort of dropping them). All in all, he will eventually kill them, it is just going to take a long time. What I want to know is why didn't any of these characters strip the armor and start climbing? Wait - if "realism" and "physics" is to be kept out, then the whole OP is a meaningless... MESS! The DM in this case tried to use real world physics - and poorly - I've fired bows and can tell you that even straight up a real world English long bow can be lethal in the right hands. Picking and choosing when real world physics should be used is just cherry-picking and unfair to the players. The difference between theoretical and applied physics is the problem in this case. Terminal velocity by any object can kill, but the density and mass of the object is what makes it deadly - Factor in air resistance applied against the shape of the object and you reach a point where a small rock isn't going to do much more than **** off someone with a shield over his head. I still stand on my post. If real world properties are going to be applied to the falling ROCKS, then they should be applies to the characters as well. Otherwise the DM is a twit and just looking to rationalize killing characters for his own amusement.
TheCobra 07-14-07, 01:33 PM	The DM in this case tried to use real world physics - and poorly - I've fired bows and can tell you that even straight up a real world English long bow can be lethal in the right hands. Eh, according to my calculations, a pretty heavy arrow from a 150lb bow could only manage 34 J once it reached 350 feet. Factor in air resistance applied against the shape of the object and you reach a point where a small rock isn't going to do much more than **** off someone with a shield over his head. How small? If it's a few pounds, it might well punch through that shield.
Varl 07-14-07, 02:04 PM	Heh. This thread and its subject is hilarious. First off, pit traps over a distance greater than the creators ability to get to the bottom of the pit without killing themslves is redundant, and well, rather pointless. Perhaps I'm wrong, but isn't the point of a pit trap created by creatures, or one naturally occurring that creatures modify to use as a trap, one that is a tool for gathering food (i.e. adventurers) and their treasure? If the pit they use is too deep, it's a simply a deathtrap, which in most cases, is a pretty stupid way for monsters to stay alive and find food. It's like designing a dragon cave with no entrance or exit larger than the dragon that's inside it. Heh.
Ikyotojin 07-15-07, 12:49 PM	Eh, according to my calculations, a pretty heavy arrow from a 150lb bow could only manage 34 J once it reached 350 feet. Again, it's calculations against real world application. Have you ever pulled a 150 long bow, or better, a recurve? Take things out of paper and into practice and you will find a HUGE difference that separates mechanics from design. How small? If it's a few pounds, it might well punch through that shield.[/QUOTE] You seem to like thinking in terms of math. Figure in the density of the shield and it's composite materials - a thin layer of tanned and heavily lacquered leather over hard oak, or a tempered layer of iron or steel. Regardless of terminal velocity, the resilience of the shield at point of impact is going to render any stone less than 5lbs a mild annoyance. Shields distribute the impact across their surface if they are curved. Again, practical experience with shields of several types... I was active in the SCA, the military and as a historian in European Military History and have done a LOT of restoration work from the early 1980's till almost 2000. I have a LOT of respect for number crunchers, but till you pick up a bow in the real world, let's just agree to disagree. And we still have the disparity between the DM in question using real world physics on one hand (the annoying little humanoid and his rocks) killing the party, and on the other hand not using the same real world knowledge to kill off the party just from a 350' fall! Use the SAME rules for an average human body and gear falling the same distance and you get a messy collection of tissue, broken bones and blood at the bottom of a pit. Resolve that - either use the game rules or the rules of science, but mixing and matching to suit someone's twisted sense of humor kind of renders the entire thread useless. Nothin can or will come of this conversation otherwise.
ShinoAburame 07-15-07, 03:52 PM	I wouldn't have done improvised weapons but made these "rocks" no better then slings. Which do what? Maybe d3 damage? Even by my gritty system that isn't very threatning. At most theyd become fatigue. Then again I tend to make damage resolve more abstract and RP heavy then (you're at 10hp, now you're at 7hp..)
Sildatorak 07-15-07, 09:59 PM	Wait - if "realism" and "physics" is to be kept out, then the whole OP is a meaningless... MESS! That is my point exactly.
El_ahrairah 07-15-07, 11:49 PM	Wouldn't a party of 12th level characters have a sufficient AC to dodge the goblins rocks long enough for the rocks to effectively raise the ground level of the pit trap floor so they could walk out? :D If I was a player, and my DM pulled a stunt like this, I would find a new group. As a DM, I would never put a 350' pit trap in to a dungeon, a natural cliff or cavern, maybe. Even so, if they survived the fall I would rule that they would have broken limbs/ribs/equipment until sufficient healing could be applied. There's room for fudged physics in fantasy, but a single goblin dropping rocks on a 12th level party and killing them = silly. If it were my campaign and I wanted to inject a little humor in to a dark, deadly dungeon, the pit would definitely be a bit more reasonable, maybe 30 or 40' tops. Then maybe some Goblins or Kobolds show up and start dumping buckets of water, chum, and sewage on the pc's for invading their home. Heck, maybe some dead (or living) rats, snakes and such.
Slayergnome 07-16-07, 12:05 AM	Wait a minute... have any of you even READ what Lint Trap posted? I took a job a LONG time ago and worked at the county morgue for 6 weeks... and have seen the effect of a 200' fall on a human body. "Chunky salsa" is not just something you find in a jar kids. I don't care what the physics major thinks - there wasn't anyone alive at the bottom of that pit for the rocks to kill. Jumper or something? Or did they stumble on a starving goblin someplace with a 200' pit to catch unwary humans?
Angus Cotton 07-16-07, 12:34 AM	How many civilizations dig pits this deep? Er....America: Link! (http://www.shaftdrillers.com/projects.php4)
TheCobra 07-16-07, 01:06 AM	Again, it's calculations against real world application. Have you ever pulled a 150 long bow, or better, a recurve? Take things out of paper and into practice and you will find a HUGE difference that separates mechanics from design. What, do you not believe in science or something? Thanks to The Great Warbow, I know how powerful heavy longbows are. I used HyperPhysics (a wonderful website) for the calculations. They didn't factor in air resistance, so 34 J is probably an overestimate. Note that 34 J isn't complete insignificant. It's around what you could expect from a 40lb longbow. Depending on how much air resistance matters, you might well be able to kill someone 350 feet in the air. By the way, have you ever shot a bow at something that high up? Regardless of terminal velocity, the resilience of the shield at point of impact is going to render any stone less than 5lbs a mild annoyance. Why do you believe this? If the terminal velocity is low enough, you might be right. I doubt that's the case. It takes humans around two thousand feet to hit terminal velocity. Do you think rocks reach it more quickly? Also, I've read that meteorites have a terminal velocity of 100-200 m/s. That's considerably more than a rock could gain from falling 350 feet. Again, practical experience with shields of several types... I was active in the SCA, the military and as a historian in European Military History and have done a LOT of restoration work from the early 1980's till almost 2000. Have you dropped 1-5lb rocks on shields from hundreds of feet above?
Ikyotojin 07-16-07, 01:32 AM	What, do you not believe in science or something? Thanks to The Great Warbow, I know how powerful heavy longbows are. I used HyperPhysics (a wonderful website) for the calculations. They didn't factor in air resistance, so 34 J is probably an overestimate. Note that 34 J isn't complete insignificant. It's around what you could expect from a 40lb longbow. Depending on how much air resistance matters, you might well be able to kill someone 350 feet in the air. By the way, have you ever shot a bow at something that high up? Nope. A squirrel at 80' up a tree with a 80lb recurve. Actually over shot by quite a bit. Why do you believe this? If the terminal velocity is low enough, you might be right. I doubt that's the case. It takes humans around two thousand feet to hit terminal velocity. Do you think rocks reach it more quickly? Again, practical experience (and in answer to the other person who asked - it was a construction worker on the side of a overpass - it's called the "skyway" in Buffalo NY and he hit water... and we didn't find all of him.). Also, I've read that meteorites have a terminal velocity of 100-200 m/s. That's considerably more than a rock could gain from falling 350 feet. Have you dropped 1-5lb rocks on shields from hundreds of feet above? hehehe... actually, we dropped 5 lb rocks on a shield that was set up over a test dummy at 50'. Showed that he would have survived if he was using a good shield that was curved. Flat surface transfered the force through, shattered his arm.
Archangel_Tyrael 07-16-07, 02:01 AM	Wow, reading this thread was almost as boring as a DnD session with this DM would be: DM: 9.81 meters per second squared...air resistance...2.12 kilograms...Joules...angle of the armor...density...you take...seve...no...eight damage. PCs: :mymy: That calculation just took you fifteen minutes. DM: Yeah, but it's "realistic". PCs: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Ikyotojin 07-16-07, 10:42 AM	Wow, reading this thread was almost as boring as a DnD session with this DM would be: DM: 9.81 meters per second squared...air resistance...2.12 kilograms...Joules...angle of the armor...density...you take...seve...no...eight damage. PCs: :mymy: That calculation just took you fifteen minutes. DM: Yeah, but it's "realistic". PCs: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: THANK YOU! I have a pat answer for "but how does a mage get away with wiping out the orc raiding party without taking a scratch and my fighter ends up spending all of his share of the loot on healing potions!?!" "It's magic. He can fry a bunch of orcs in 20' radius batches and you can only hit two or three times a round. Deal with it." ;) Either run a game using real world science (which I think is the only way to deal with the real world) OR use rules for fantasy gaming where people can say some silly words and fly.
TheCobra 07-16-07, 10:48 AM	A squirrel at 80' up a tree with a 80lb recurve. Actually over shot by quite a bit. 350 feet is a lot higher than 80 feet. Do you understand how high 350 feet is? Only the tallest redwood trees can beat it, and not by much. hehehe... actually, we dropped 5 lb rocks on a shield that was set up over a test dummy at 50'. Showed that he would have survived if he was using a good shield that was curved. Flat surface transfered the force through, shattered his arm. Sounds like an interesting test. Note that the gravitational potential energy of 5 pounds up 50 feet is about 339 J. The gravitation potential energy of 1 pound up 350 feet is about 475 J. Unless the lighter rock's terminal velocity is under 50 m/s, it should hit harder or as about as hard as the heavier one. Either run a game using real world science (which I think is the only way to deal with the real world) OR use rules for fantasy gaming where people can say some silly words and fly. I don't agree with this. In my opinion, our world's rule should the standard. Magic should come on top of that. Otherwise, the gaming world seems too different from our own.
Ikyotojin 07-16-07, 10:55 AM	Ok, then we disagree. No big deal. You run your games your way, I'll run mine, other run theirs. Cool.
Endarrion 07-16-07, 11:33 AM	As a DM I don't think I would've done this for one simple reason: humiliation. For a group of level 12 adventurers to be killed by a single goblin with rocks is humiliation. Sure, one might feel humiliation at having fallen down a 300ft shaft. But assuming you survive, that's it. That's the end of the humiliation. The DM took it one step too far and decided to seemingly "punish" the players for not paying attention. I agree with what others have said: the pit should've killed the party. If i put a 300ft pit in a dungeon, and the party ACTUALLY fell in it, I would probably kill them, unless the damage dictated by the rules would be significantly less than their HP. And besides that, to die to a pit trap is pretty bad in my eyes. I probably would've told them to make Fort saves to keep from dying and allowed them to spend some time down at the bottom of the pit to heal themselves. I think the DM went a bit too far.
Archangel_Tyrael 07-16-07, 03:30 PM	I agree with what others have said: the pit should've killed the party. If i put a 300ft pit in a dungeon, and the party ACTUALLY fell in it, I would probably kill them, unless the damage dictated by the rules would be significantly less than their HP. Well, max falling damage is 20d6, which only averages out to about 70. That's actually quite survivable by a party of 12th level fighters. You can start making up houserules and other fluff to describe what happened, but just remember: Injury and Death Your hit points measure how hard you are to kill. No matter how many hit points you lose, your character isn’t hindered in any way until your hit points drop to 0 or lower. Loss Of Hit Points The most common w... By the falling object damage rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#fallingObjects) the PCs would have taken 5d6 damage from any object from 1-10 lbs that hit them. Course, the trick is finding out a system by which the goblin would hit the PCs at all...