Enlarged CR?? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Enlarged CR?? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
yourReality
03-07-06, 04:17 PM what's an appropriate CR augment to an Enlarged Dwarf?
the dwarf would be between 8 and nine feet tall making it a large creature.
along with the appropriate modifications from the spell Enlarge Person.

the Dwarf was originally a 10th level warrior (CR 9)
Wyrd Bearer
03-07-06, 05:14 PM We'll need clarification on what you mean by enlarged. A target of the enlarge person doesn't actually advance in size, they get bigger and gain the benefits specified in the spell description instead of those gained by becoming larger. Since the bonuses gained from the spell are about half of what actually advancing a creature to large size is, I'd say about +1/2 CR.

If the dwarf were to actually be permanently advanced to large size and gained the true benefits of larger size (+8 Str, -2 Dex, +2 NA, etc), then it would just be a simple +1 to the total CR.
cwslyclgh
03-07-06, 05:20 PM A target of the enlarge person doesn't actually advance in sizethe spell discription would beg to differ:

This spell causes instant growth of a humanoid creature, doubling its height and multiplying its weight by 8. This increase changes the creature’s size category to the next larger one. The target gains a +2 size bonus to Strength, a –2 size penalty to Dexterity (to a minimum of 1), and a –1 penalty on attack rolls and AC due to its increased size.
A humanoid creature whose size increases to Large has a space of 10 feet and a natural reach of 10 feet. This spell does not change the target’s speed.

Personaly I do not think that +2 strength, reach, -2 dex, -1 to attack rolls and a net -2 to AC are enough to warant a CR change.
Wyrd Bearer
03-07-06, 06:18 PM When I said does not advance to the next size, I meant to say was that it was not the same as actually advancing the target to the next size and gaining the +8 Str -2 Dex +4 Con +2 Natural Armour and –1 to AC/Attack. Instead you become large and gain the speed boost and reach but not the other adjustments beyond what is listed in the spell.

You are of course correct to say it becomes large. Its just that I think I interpreted the OP as applying both the benefits of the enlarge person spells and the benefits of advancing in size as per the monster size advancement chart.
cwslyclgh
03-07-06, 06:20 PM Its just that I think I interpreted the OP as applying both the benefits of the enlarge person spells and the benefits of advancing in size as per the monster size advancement chart.ah... in that case, if he did indeed apply all of the benifits to advancing size as well as the benifits of the enlarge spell then i think that a +1 to CR would most likley be called for :)
yourReality
03-08-06, 08:40 PM hypothetically:
enlarge person spell cast upon character by another character. would this not merit a challenge rating increase, because the ability to cast enlarge person is incorporated in the caster's CR?
cwslyclgh
03-08-06, 08:45 PM would this not merit a challenge rating increasenot in my opinion no.
Wyrd Bearer
03-08-06, 09:10 PM not in my opinion no.Agreed. If there is another caster around, then the CR for any potential enlargements via magic are already factored in (if that caster is the source for the curret situation).

I'm still curious about what the exact situation is. Is there a dwarf permenantly under the effect of an enlarge person spell, has the dwarf been advanced via DMs perogative to Large size or is there a caster around somewhere who just cast enlarge person on the dwarf?
yourReality
03-10-06, 04:34 PM Permanently enlarged dwarven defender. sort of like a..body guard to the caster of both such spells. I figure, whats more interesting than a nine foot tall dwarf huh?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
yourReality 03-07-06, 04:17 PM	what's an appropriate CR augment to an Enlarged Dwarf? the dwarf would be between 8 and nine feet tall making it a large creature. along with the appropriate modifications from the spell Enlarge Person. the Dwarf was originally a 10th level warrior (CR 9)
Wyrd Bearer 03-07-06, 05:14 PM	We'll need clarification on what you mean by enlarged. A target of the enlarge person doesn't actually advance in size, they get bigger and gain the benefits specified in the spell description instead of those gained by becoming larger. Since the bonuses gained from the spell are about half of what actually advancing a creature to large size is, I'd say about +1/2 CR. If the dwarf were to actually be permanently advanced to large size and gained the true benefits of larger size (+8 Str, -2 Dex, +2 NA, etc), then it would just be a simple +1 to the total CR.
cwslyclgh 03-07-06, 05:20 PM	A target of the enlarge person doesn't actually advance in sizethe spell discription would beg to differ: This spell causes instant growth of a humanoid creature, doubling its height and multiplying its weight by 8. This increase changes the creature’s size category to the next larger one. The target gains a +2 size bonus to Strength, a –2 size penalty to Dexterity (to a minimum of 1), and a –1 penalty on attack rolls and AC due to its increased size. A humanoid creature whose size increases to Large has a space of 10 feet and a natural reach of 10 feet. This spell does not change the target’s speed. Personaly I do not think that +2 strength, reach, -2 dex, -1 to attack rolls and a net -2 to AC are enough to warant a CR change.
Wyrd Bearer 03-07-06, 06:18 PM	When I said does not advance to the next size, I meant to say was that it was not the same as actually advancing the target to the next size and gaining the +8 Str -2 Dex +4 Con +2 Natural Armour and –1 to AC/Attack. Instead you become large and gain the speed boost and reach but not the other adjustments beyond what is listed in the spell. You are of course correct to say it becomes large. Its just that I think I interpreted the OP as applying both the benefits of the enlarge person spells and the benefits of advancing in size as per the monster size advancement chart.
cwslyclgh 03-07-06, 06:20 PM	Its just that I think I interpreted the OP as applying both the benefits of the enlarge person spells and the benefits of advancing in size as per the monster size advancement chart.ah... in that case, if he did indeed apply all of the benifits to advancing size as well as the benifits of the enlarge spell then i think that a +1 to CR would most likley be called for :)
yourReality 03-08-06, 08:40 PM	hypothetically: enlarge person spell cast upon character by another character. would this not merit a challenge rating increase, because the ability to cast enlarge person is incorporated in the caster's CR?
cwslyclgh 03-08-06, 08:45 PM	would this not merit a challenge rating increasenot in my opinion no.
Wyrd Bearer 03-08-06, 09:10 PM	not in my opinion no.Agreed. If there is another caster around, then the CR for any potential enlargements via magic are already factored in (if that caster is the source for the curret situation). I'm still curious about what the exact situation is. Is there a dwarf permenantly under the effect of an enlarge person spell, has the dwarf been advanced via DMs perogative to Large size or is there a caster around somewhere who just cast enlarge person on the dwarf?
yourReality 03-10-06, 04:34 PM	Permanently enlarged dwarven defender. sort of like a..body guard to the caster of both such spells. I figure, whats more interesting than a nine foot tall dwarf huh?