Post/Author/DateTime	Post
flyingmoose 02-14-04, 01:10 AM	This thread may be moved to the EHB forum. I wasn't sure if it belonged here or there. While sitting in my living room idly flipping through my 3.5 Monster Manual (yes, I'm so nerdy sometimes I just read the core books), I noticed something odd in the entry "Dragon, True", more specifically the copper dragon. According to epic level rules (which are apparently core now), after 20th level, everyone is put on the same BAB and save progression (that is, +1 epic attack bonus every odd level, +1 epic save bonus every even level). I would have assumed the same to be true for monster Hit Dice. They get skills and feats the same, why wouldn't the get epic bonuses the same? Well looking at the great wyrm copper dragon, I noticed that it has 38 HD and a base attack bonus of +38. It's not just that one. There's not a single creature in the Monster Manual with more than 20 Hit Dice that even makes mention of an epic progression (there aren't many such creatures, so this was easy to verify). ...qu-est-ce que c'est? Do monster HD simply never follow epic rules or is this some sort of massive oversight? Is it for simplicity's sake? What about epic PCs playing monsters with 21+ HD? What if a 30th level character suddenly becomes a 30 HD monster, does its BAB and saves change? What gives?
cwslyclgh 02-14-04, 01:23 AM	only character class levels above 20 count for epic save and attack bonuses, creatures with racial HD of 21 or higher saves and attack bonuses keep scaling normaly (although a maximum of 4 attacks due to BAB is still enforced) if you look at the monsters in the ELH you will notice that none of them use epic save bonus or epic BAB either. the side bar on page 7 of the ELH (Behind the Curtian: A limit to attacks and saves) explains this. hope that helps :)