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Zendu 01-20-05, 04:35 AM

i know this is 3.0 but untill a new book comes out, it holds as far as i know. I was talking with a friend today aabout high challenge rating monsters, and compairing the templates I think Paragon is either underpowered, or Psuedo Natural is Overpowered! to confim this, im going to apply both too an owlbear, something i consider a iconic dnd char. Just Owlbear Paragon Owlbear Psedo-owlbear Hp 510+25(52) 175 100 Init +1 +12 +5 Speed 30' 90' 60' Ac 15 (-1,+1,+5) 36(-1,8,12,12,5 39(-1,5,35) BAB/Grap5/14 5/45 5/25 atk +9 1d6+5 41 1d6+33 +31 2d8+16 full atk9/9/4 1d6+5,1d8+2 42/42/36 1d6+33, 1d8+27 31/31/31 2d8+16 special Imp grab imp grab imp grab, constant insight,rotting touch (2d4con) spec scent scent fire/cold resist 10 dr 20/+6 elec/acid resist 20 dr25/+6 sr 32 fast healing 20 sr 25 Saves 9/5/2 26/22/19 14/10/7 spells - Grtr displel,true sight, haste Blur,dimension door, shield, unhallow Abili 21/12/21/2/12/10 36/27/36/17/27/25 43/22/31/3/22/10 skill spot 8 spot 25 spot listen 8 listen 25 listen Feats Alertness alterness, track alertness, track Track Imp inish, wpn fcs claw cr 4 22 ?! 21 Well to review what we have so far. MY theroy was shatterd, or rather this shows, neither was designed to be applyed to small cr monsters. The pseudo is underpowered in all areas exept armor, and maybe his con drain makes up for his lesser attacks. his grappl check rocks though. of cource that stupid +20 to all atacks by the paragon still makes up for it. only the paragon is worth the cr so far. Now to shoot for something at the same cr that does SO much more: Kraken Paragon Kraken Psuedo kraken hp 20d10+180(290) 760 480 init 4 11 9 speed 20' 60' 30' ac 20 (-4+14) 41 (-4,14,7,12,12) 36(-4,35,5) bab/grap 20/44 20/76 20/70 atk +28 2d8+12 (19/20) +60 2d8+39 +54 2d8+23 (19/20) full atk 2x 28 2d8+12 (19/20) 6x +23 1d6+6 1x +23 4d6+6 2x +60 2d8+60(19/20) 6x +58 1d6+52(19/20) 1x +58 4d6+52 15x +51 2d8+23 (19/20) special imp grab constrict 2d8+12 or 1d6+6 2d8+60 or 1d6+52 2d8+23 and 2d4con spec darkvision 60, ink, jet, lowlight, spells darkvision 60, ink, jet, lowlight, spells darkvision 60, ink, jet, lowlight, spells fire/cold resist 10 dr 20/+6 sr 34 fast healing 20 sr 100 elec and acid resist, 40, dr 45/+10 saves 21/12/13 38/29/30 26/17/18 spells control weather, control winds, control weather, control winds, control weather, control winds, dominate animal (DC 18), resist energy dominate animal (DC 40), resist energy dominate animal (DC 18), resist energy Grtr displel,true sight, haste Blur,dimension door, shield, unhallow abil 34/10/29/21/20/20 49/25/43/36/35/35 56/20/39/21/30/20 feats alerness,blindfight, combat expertise, imp crit alerness,blindfight, combat expertise, imp crit alerness,blindfight, combat expertise, imp crit imp init,imp trip, iron will imp init,imp trip, iron will,multiattack, imp crit imp init,imp trip, iron will cr 12 24 22 This really shows the diffrences in the templates. Psuedo has low hp for an encounter at that level, but simply insane damage reduction. thier attacks are similer, but the fact the psuedo has 6 more of them counts for something Of cource this is pro-pseduo case since i assumed that imp crit moved over when it became psudeo natural. Although these are powerful tempplates, there cr is all wonky, with lower level monsters getting higher hd? if it was the other way around it might make more sense, but even then.. For being just two cr's higher than the psuedo, paragon gets alot, its bonus to attacks,damage, and ac in particular are just plain epic. Not to mention that its not nearly as HD dependant as the psuedo, after all it has fixed bonuses and attacks. for those who are really interested in killing thier players, a colossal scorpion with psedo template gets 14 tentacle attacks, and dr 70/15 only cr 21! sigh i should read erratas, they changed paragon to +15 for all, that still makes the owlbear kinda weak... think of the tarresque.