erinyes [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

erinyes [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TVLLestatTVL
06-11-07, 12:53 AM I noticed that the erinyes is an un-usually weak monster giving what it is suppose to be. Fallen angels that have small powers, small hit dice, small damage. Is there a reason for this? I thought about taking some of the astral devas powers, and adding them to the erinyes's arsenal. Like if it has cure major wounds. Have the opposite and have her be able to use inflict major wounds. Is this a good idea?
runestar
06-11-07, 01:19 AM They are strong for their cr. The idea was probably to create a decent fiend to fill in the cr7-8 gap, and erinyes seemed like it would fit the bill.
Naderion
06-11-07, 08:29 AM Normal mortals are Level 1 or 2 and fev soldiers or guards are above level 4. CR 8 isn't weak at all, they can even fight dire bears on their own and win.
Mai_ariti
06-11-07, 08:42 AM I thought about taking some of the astral devas powers, and adding them to the erinyes's arsenal. Like if it has cure major wounds. Have the opposite and have her be able to use inflict major wounds. Is this a good idea?

It's a smashing good idea if your party can take it, the problem is, there isn't much an Astral Deva can do with Cure Major Wounds but help people. . .unless you're undead. The ability to inflict them however is a lot more dangerous. . .unless you're undead. Overall though I like the idea, just make sure your players dont get the wrong idea when the Knowledge (The Planes) check says the angry lady with the sword is a Erinyes.
Roivas
06-11-07, 08:48 AM Did you notice their tactics and spell-like abilities? An Erinyes devil is likely to harass a party relentlessly without fear of even getting attacked by anyone but the wizard. If someone has a decent ranged attack charming them would be the best way to take care of them. They can escape at any time with greater teleport and can toss unholy blight at anyone with an AC too high for them to strike with their flaming longbow.
A well run erinyes could become a dangerous recurring villian the players will hate to see teleport in at the worst possible time.
runestar
06-11-07, 08:59 AM I think he means that they are weak for the "angel cr range". For example, the astral deva is cr14, so he was probably expecting that erinyes' cr be somewhere comparable with the cr of the weakest angel in the MM.

No one is disputing that they are weak for their cr. :)
Alyss
06-11-07, 09:12 AM That annoyed me to, as it implies that angels are harder than devils. Why?

Furthermore, can't we give the poor ladies polymorph? Their lawful evil for chrissake, wouldn't they be more likely to plot and kill from the shadows? How do they do that with wings? Frankly, why don't all the higher CR fiends have polymorph? How the hell do we get half-fiends if they don't? Why would any right-minded human sleep with a balor?
Beefypistolsnipe
06-11-07, 09:21 AM They wouldn't. Either It was a demon worshiper or it was not consentual.
Taeldrin Laesrash
06-11-07, 09:34 AM Erinyes aren't fallen angels, they were part of the devil hierarchy up until the rumor in the Monster Manual and the revision in the Fiendish Codex II. They're not a mirror of the angels, and are supposed to fill the gap of a mid-level devilish challenge to the PCs, like the succubus for demons, or avoral for guardinals, or (I think) the lupinal for guardinals.
RobbyPants
06-11-07, 12:30 PM That annoyed me to, as it implies that angels are harder than devils. Why?

Furthermore, can't we give the poor ladies polymorph? Their lawful evil for chrissake, wouldn't they be more likely to plot and kill from the shadows? How do they do that with wings?
Well, perhaps you could view it as them losing some power when they fell from grace. It's really up to you, and how you want to view them. Personally, I tend to agree with everyone else who says they're just filling a particular CR niche. You could certainly beef their power up and raise their CR if you wanted, and there would be nothing "wrong" with it.

Frankly, why don't all the higher CR fiends have polymorph? How the hell do we get half-fiends if they don't? Why would any right-minded human sleep with a balor?
They wouldn't. Either It was a demon worshiper or it was not consentual.
Yeah, I'd have to go with the cultist or lack of consent approach. Fiends aren't known for being particularly nice. A demon is likely to do this out of spite and wrath. A devil is likely to do it out of a twisted malice, knowing that they've done far more damage letting the mother live with her new child.

The whole "right-minded" part of your question answers itself. :P
Joe: Hey Sue, wanna come home with me?
Sue: No thanks Joe. I'm saving myself for when I meet a Balor.
Joe: :eek:
runestar
06-11-07, 01:02 PM Also, dnd recently removed polymorph from just about every monster who used to have it. So the next best thing now is probably alternate form.:)
Shemeska the Marauder
06-11-07, 02:56 PM I noticed that the erinyes is an un-usually weak monster giving what it is suppose to be. Fallen angels that have small powers, small hit dice, small damage. Is there a reason for this? I thought about taking some of the astral devas powers, and adding them to the erinyes's arsenal. Like if it has cure major wounds. Have the opposite and have her be able to use inflict major wounds. Is this a good idea?

Because they aren't actually fallen angels.

The first erinyes were originally members of a LN race of unknown name who were willingly corrupted to LE during the early days of the multiverse, serving Asmodeus and eventually following him into Baator (where they proceeded to conquer the plane from its original natives the Ancient Baatorians). Fiendish Codex II at times uses the term 'angel', but presents the term as part of a myth that openly admits it may have little to no grounding in historical truth, and whose names change to fit various cultures and worlds, adding more question to certain aspects of the legend.

But at its core, it seems clear that they were originally part of a LN planar race that existed prior to the corruption of a primordial plane of Law by both good and evil.

At least this is the case till a future book rewrites the history of the Baatezu (for the third or forth time now). ;)
Slagger the Chuul
06-11-07, 08:30 PM The first erinyes were originally members of a LN race of unknown name who were willingly corrupted to LE during the early days of the multiverse, serving Asmodeus and eventually following him into Baator (where they proceeded to conquer the plane from its original natives the Ancient Baatorians).

Actually, the first erinyes were spirits of vengeance born from the blood of Uranus; I couldn't personally say where or when the idea of them previously being a race was dredged up.
Rerecros
06-11-07, 08:44 PM Actually, the first erinyes were spirits of vengeance born from the blood of Uranus; I couldn't personally say where or when the idea of them previously being a race was dredged up.

Agreed.
Shemeska the Marauder
06-11-07, 09:24 PM Actually, the first erinyes were spirits of vengeance born from the blood of Uranus;

The erinyes of roman myth yes, but not the D&D erinyes as a race of devils. Even if the greek/roman pantheon exists within the same multiverse as the erinyes of Baator, not everything from the realworld roman/greek mythology is directly ported over.
Rerecros
06-11-07, 09:32 PM The first erinyes were originally members of a LN race of unknown name who were willingly corrupted to LE during the early days of the multiverse, serving Asmodeus and eventually following him into Baator (where they proceeded to conquer the plane from its original natives the Ancient Baatorians).

The erinyes of the planescape setting yes, but not the D&D erinyes as a group of lawful evil outsiders. Even if Baator and the multiverse exists within other campain settings, not everything from planescape is directly ported over. ;)
Shemeska the Marauder
06-11-07, 10:22 PM The erinyes of the planescape setting yes, but not the D&D erinyes as a group of lawful evil outsiders. Even if Baator and the multiverse exists within other campain settings, not everything from planescape is directly ported over. ;)

Actually yes, the D&D erinyes as a group of lawful evil outsiders. You don't have to look in a specifically Planescape sourcebook for that as it was mostly from Fiendish Codex II.
Rerecros
06-12-07, 12:01 AM that as it was mostly from Fiendish Codex II.

:yuck: Fiendish codex, that explains it.
More bloodwar splat books to sell those stupid minis.

Giving outsiders lame histories and dealings treats them too much like humanoids. They are ancient purely conceptual beings with motivations so vast they are beyond mortal comprehension.

Spelling out their history in full completely defeats their vary nature in D&D.
Shemeska the Marauder
06-12-07, 12:17 AM Giving outsiders lame histories and dealings treats them too much like humanoids.

Leaving them as statblocks with a name and no other detail is even worse. D&D's planes have a history, and though mortals can't fully comprehend the beings that embody those planes and their respective abstracts, they're there nonetheless. If we don't give them some level of detail and exploration, we leave them as extraplanar monsters living in extraplanar dungeons for PCs to kill for XP. ;)
Borris
06-12-07, 01:51 AM :yuck: Fiendish codex, that explains it.
More bloodwar splat books to sell those stupid minis.
I'm not sure where you're getting at. None of the new monsters in Fiendish Codex I or II has ever been made as a miniature, and none will appear in the miniature set coming out next month either.
Borris
06-12-07, 02:02 AM Also, if you want a stronger erinyes, you can simply give it class levels. Or you can use the advancement by hit dice given in the Erinyes' monster entry. Using the guideline saying that an outsider's CR increases by 1 for every two addtionnal hit dice, I end up with the following beast.

Advanced Erinyes - CR 13
Always LE Medium Outsider (Baatezu, Evil, Extraplanar, Lawful)
Init +5; Senses darkvision 60 ft., see in darkness, true seeing, Listen +25, Spot +25
Languages Infernal, Celestial, Draconic, telepathy 100 ft.

AC 23, touch 15, flat-footed 18 (+5 Dex, +8 natural); Dodge, Mobility
hp 189 (18 HD); DR 5/good
Immune fire, poison
Resist acid 10, cold 10; SR 25
Fort +16, Ref +16, Will +15

Speed 30 ft. (6 squares), fly 50 ft. (good)
Melee longsword +23/+18/+13/+8 (1d8+5/19-20)
Ranged +1 flaming composite longbow +24/+19/+14/+9 (1d8+6/×3 plus 1d6 fire) OR
Ranged +1 flaming composite longbow +22/+22/+17/+12/+7 (1d8+6/×3 plus 1d6 fire) OR
Ranged +1 flaming composite longbow +20 (2d8+12/×3 plus 2d6 fire) OR
Ranged +1 flaming composite longbow +18 (3d8+18/×3 plus 3d6 fire) OR
Ranged +1 flaming composite longbow +16 (4d8+24/×3 plus 4d6 fire) OR
Ranged rope +23 (entangle)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Base Atk +18; Grp +23
Atk Options Manyshot, Point-Blank Shot, Quiken Spell-Like Ability (unholy blight) 3/day, Rapid Shot, Shot on the Run, Summon Devil
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 21st):
At will - greater teleport (self plus 50 pounds of objects only), charm monster (DC 19), minor image (DC 17), unholy blight (DC 19)

Abilities Str 21, Dex 21, con 21, Int 14, Wis 18, Cha 20
Feats DodgeB, Improved Toughness, Manyshot, MobilityB, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Quicken Spell-Like Ability (unholy blight), Rapid Shot, Shot on the Run
Skills Concentration +26, Diplomacy +7, Escape Artist +26, Hide +26, Knowledge (any two) +23, Listen +25, Move Silently +26, Search +23, Sense Motive +25, Spot +25, Survival +4 (+6 following tracks), Use Rope +5 (+7 with bindings)

Entangle (Ex) Each erinyes carries a stout rope some 50 feet long that entangles opponents of any size as an animate rope spell (caster level 16th). An erinyes can hurl its rope 30 feet with no range penalty. Typically, an erinyes entangles a foe, lifts it into the air, and drops it from a great height.

Summon Devil (Sp) Once per day an erinyes can attempt to summon 2d10 lemures or 1d4 bearded devils with a 50% chance of success. This ability is the equivalent of a 3rd-level spell.

True Seeing (Su) Erinyes continuously use true seeing, as the spell (caster level 23th).

How's that for a fallen angel?
Slagger the Chuul
06-12-07, 03:23 AM D&D's planes have a history, and though mortals can't fully comprehend the beings that embody those planes and their respective abstracts, they're there nonetheless.

Looking at this again, the Fiendish Codex II does explicitly identify erinyes as the descendants of fallen angels, so I guess that's the correct history for the moment.
Shemeska the Marauder
06-12-07, 04:15 AM Looking at this again, the Fiendish Codex II does explicitly identify erinyes as the descendants of fallen angels, so I guess that's the correct history for the moment.

At least one of the myths it presents does, though the myth itself contains some self-invalidating material. Suffice to say there weren't any actual angels around at the time the erinyes fell to evil, and the term is very much a latterday imposition into the original core facts that the myth has evolved around.
Dead_Weasel
06-12-07, 05:23 AM Fiendish Codex II actually divides the multiverse first into Law and Chaos, then Good and Evil. The erinyes were Lawful Nothing before they became Lawful Evil. Presumably some of them sided with Asmodeus, and the rest did not but were corrupted later on. Given Hell's focus on hierarchy, though, fallen angels are probably all reshaped into nearly-identical erinyes shells, excepting those who merit unique status.
Shemeska the Marauder
06-12-07, 06:16 PM Fiendish Codex II actually divides the multiverse first into Law and Chaos, then Good and Evil.

Pure Good and pure Evil existed at the same time, but the Law/Chaos poles of the planes didn't truly comprehend them (and likewise), and they hadn't yet mixed to create most of the mixed alignment planes. Prior to Asmo falling from Law, the first obyriths were actually the creations of the first fiends, the NE baernaloths. The NE (and NG presumably) planes had tons going on well prior to Asmo's fall, but FC:II doesn't concern itself with anything but a strictly LE perspective on things.

Even before Asmodeus was fighting the obyriths and before he'd become LE, the yugoloths and demodands had had their own little genocidal falling out, Apomps the Triple Aspected created Carceri as a result of his expulsion from the Waste, and Gehenna was created at some point likely before the creation of the Ancient Baatorians.

As much as the Slaad might love to claim that the planes began as chaos, the pure alignments (CN/LN/NE/NG) originated in an unmixed state at the same point. The particulars of their interaction are hazy, especially for the NG side of things, but it's an interesting little bit of history, spiced with biased sources, myth, unreliable narrators, etc. :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TVLLestatTVL 06-11-07, 12:53 AM	I noticed that the erinyes is an un-usually weak monster giving what it is suppose to be. Fallen angels that have small powers, small hit dice, small damage. Is there a reason for this? I thought about taking some of the astral devas powers, and adding them to the erinyes's arsenal. Like if it has cure major wounds. Have the opposite and have her be able to use inflict major wounds. Is this a good idea?
runestar 06-11-07, 01:19 AM	They are strong for their cr. The idea was probably to create a decent fiend to fill in the cr7-8 gap, and erinyes seemed like it would fit the bill.
Naderion 06-11-07, 08:29 AM	Normal mortals are Level 1 or 2 and fev soldiers or guards are above level 4. CR 8 isn't weak at all, they can even fight dire bears on their own and win.
Mai_ariti 06-11-07, 08:42 AM	I thought about taking some of the astral devas powers, and adding them to the erinyes's arsenal. Like if it has cure major wounds. Have the opposite and have her be able to use inflict major wounds. Is this a good idea? It's a smashing good idea if your party can take it, the problem is, there isn't much an Astral Deva can do with Cure Major Wounds but help people. . .unless you're undead. The ability to inflict them however is a lot more dangerous. . .unless you're undead. Overall though I like the idea, just make sure your players dont get the wrong idea when the Knowledge (The Planes) check says the angry lady with the sword is a Erinyes.
Roivas 06-11-07, 08:48 AM	Did you notice their tactics and spell-like abilities? An Erinyes devil is likely to harass a party relentlessly without fear of even getting attacked by anyone but the wizard. If someone has a decent ranged attack charming them would be the best way to take care of them. They can escape at any time with greater teleport and can toss unholy blight at anyone with an AC too high for them to strike with their flaming longbow. A well run erinyes could become a dangerous recurring villian the players will hate to see teleport in at the worst possible time.
runestar 06-11-07, 08:59 AM	I think he means that they are weak for the "angel cr range". For example, the astral deva is cr14, so he was probably expecting that erinyes' cr be somewhere comparable with the cr of the weakest angel in the MM. No one is disputing that they are weak for their cr. :)
Alyss 06-11-07, 09:12 AM	That annoyed me to, as it implies that angels are harder than devils. Why? Furthermore, can't we give the poor ladies polymorph? Their lawful evil for chrissake, wouldn't they be more likely to plot and kill from the shadows? How do they do that with wings? Frankly, why don't all the higher CR fiends have polymorph? How the hell do we get half-fiends if they don't? Why would any right-minded human sleep with a balor?
Beefypistolsnipe 06-11-07, 09:21 AM	They wouldn't. Either It was a demon worshiper or it was not consentual.
Taeldrin Laesrash 06-11-07, 09:34 AM	Erinyes aren't fallen angels, they were part of the devil hierarchy up until the rumor in the Monster Manual and the revision in the Fiendish Codex II. They're not a mirror of the angels, and are supposed to fill the gap of a mid-level devilish challenge to the PCs, like the succubus for demons, or avoral for guardinals, or (I think) the lupinal for guardinals.
RobbyPants 06-11-07, 12:30 PM	That annoyed me to, as it implies that angels are harder than devils. Why? Furthermore, can't we give the poor ladies polymorph? Their lawful evil for chrissake, wouldn't they be more likely to plot and kill from the shadows? How do they do that with wings? Well, perhaps you could view it as them losing some power when they fell from grace. It's really up to you, and how you want to view them. Personally, I tend to agree with everyone else who says they're just filling a particular CR niche. You could certainly beef their power up and raise their CR if you wanted, and there would be nothing "wrong" with it. Frankly, why don't all the higher CR fiends have polymorph? How the hell do we get half-fiends if they don't? Why would any right-minded human sleep with a balor? They wouldn't. Either It was a demon worshiper or it was not consentual. Yeah, I'd have to go with the cultist or lack of consent approach. Fiends aren't known for being particularly nice. A demon is likely to do this out of spite and wrath. A devil is likely to do it out of a twisted malice, knowing that they've done far more damage letting the mother live with her new child. The whole "right-minded" part of your question answers itself. :P Joe: Hey Sue, wanna come home with me? Sue: No thanks Joe. I'm saving myself for when I meet a Balor. Joe: :eek:
runestar 06-11-07, 01:02 PM	Also, dnd recently removed polymorph from just about every monster who used to have it. So the next best thing now is probably alternate form.:)
Shemeska the Marauder 06-11-07, 02:56 PM	I noticed that the erinyes is an un-usually weak monster giving what it is suppose to be. Fallen angels that have small powers, small hit dice, small damage. Is there a reason for this? I thought about taking some of the astral devas powers, and adding them to the erinyes's arsenal. Like if it has cure major wounds. Have the opposite and have her be able to use inflict major wounds. Is this a good idea? Because they aren't actually fallen angels. The first erinyes were originally members of a LN race of unknown name who were willingly corrupted to LE during the early days of the multiverse, serving Asmodeus and eventually following him into Baator (where they proceeded to conquer the plane from its original natives the Ancient Baatorians). Fiendish Codex II at times uses the term 'angel', but presents the term as part of a myth that openly admits it may have little to no grounding in historical truth, and whose names change to fit various cultures and worlds, adding more question to certain aspects of the legend. But at its core, it seems clear that they were originally part of a LN planar race that existed prior to the corruption of a primordial plane of Law by both good and evil. At least this is the case till a future book rewrites the history of the Baatezu (for the third or forth time now). ;)
Slagger the Chuul 06-11-07, 08:30 PM	The first erinyes were originally members of a LN race of unknown name who were willingly corrupted to LE during the early days of the multiverse, serving Asmodeus and eventually following him into Baator (where they proceeded to conquer the plane from its original natives the Ancient Baatorians). Actually, the first erinyes were spirits of vengeance born from the blood of Uranus; I couldn't personally say where or when the idea of them previously being a race was dredged up.
Rerecros 06-11-07, 08:44 PM	Actually, the first erinyes were spirits of vengeance born from the blood of Uranus; I couldn't personally say where or when the idea of them previously being a race was dredged up. Agreed.
Shemeska the Marauder 06-11-07, 09:24 PM	Actually, the first erinyes were spirits of vengeance born from the blood of Uranus; The erinyes of roman myth yes, but not the D&D erinyes as a race of devils. Even if the greek/roman pantheon exists within the same multiverse as the erinyes of Baator, not everything from the realworld roman/greek mythology is directly ported over.
Rerecros 06-11-07, 09:32 PM	The first erinyes were originally members of a LN race of unknown name who were willingly corrupted to LE during the early days of the multiverse, serving Asmodeus and eventually following him into Baator (where they proceeded to conquer the plane from its original natives the Ancient Baatorians). The erinyes of the planescape setting yes, but not the D&D erinyes as a group of lawful evil outsiders. Even if Baator and the multiverse exists within other campain settings, not everything from planescape is directly ported over. ;)
Shemeska the Marauder 06-11-07, 10:22 PM	The erinyes of the planescape setting yes, but not the D&D erinyes as a group of lawful evil outsiders. Even if Baator and the multiverse exists within other campain settings, not everything from planescape is directly ported over. ;) Actually yes, the D&D erinyes as a group of lawful evil outsiders. You don't have to look in a specifically Planescape sourcebook for that as it was mostly from Fiendish Codex II.
Rerecros 06-12-07, 12:01 AM	that as it was mostly from Fiendish Codex II. :yuck: Fiendish codex, that explains it. More bloodwar splat books to sell those stupid minis. Giving outsiders lame histories and dealings treats them too much like humanoids. They are ancient purely conceptual beings with motivations so vast they are beyond mortal comprehension. Spelling out their history in full completely defeats their vary nature in D&D.
Shemeska the Marauder 06-12-07, 12:17 AM	Giving outsiders lame histories and dealings treats them too much like humanoids. Leaving them as statblocks with a name and no other detail is even worse. D&D's planes have a history, and though mortals can't fully comprehend the beings that embody those planes and their respective abstracts, they're there nonetheless. If we don't give them some level of detail and exploration, we leave them as extraplanar monsters living in extraplanar dungeons for PCs to kill for XP. ;)
Borris 06-12-07, 01:51 AM	:yuck: Fiendish codex, that explains it. More bloodwar splat books to sell those stupid minis. I'm not sure where you're getting at. None of the new monsters in Fiendish Codex I or II has ever been made as a miniature, and none will appear in the miniature set coming out next month either.
Borris 06-12-07, 02:02 AM	Also, if you want a stronger erinyes, you can simply give it class levels. Or you can use the advancement by hit dice given in the Erinyes' monster entry. Using the guideline saying that an outsider's CR increases by 1 for every two addtionnal hit dice, I end up with the following beast. Advanced Erinyes - CR 13 Always LE Medium Outsider (Baatezu, Evil, Extraplanar, Lawful) Init +5; Senses darkvision 60 ft., see in darkness, true seeing, Listen +25, Spot +25 Languages Infernal, Celestial, Draconic, telepathy 100 ft. AC 23, touch 15, flat-footed 18 (+5 Dex, +8 natural); Dodge, Mobility hp 189 (18 HD); DR 5/good Immune fire, poison Resist acid 10, cold 10; SR 25 Fort +16, Ref +16, Will +15 Speed 30 ft. (6 squares), fly 50 ft. (good) Melee longsword +23/+18/+13/+8 (1d8+5/19-20) Ranged +1 flaming composite longbow +24/+19/+14/+9 (1d8+6/×3 plus 1d6 fire) OR Ranged +1 flaming composite longbow +22/+22/+17/+12/+7 (1d8+6/×3 plus 1d6 fire) OR Ranged +1 flaming composite longbow +20 (2d8+12/×3 plus 2d6 fire) OR Ranged +1 flaming composite longbow +18 (3d8+18/×3 plus 3d6 fire) OR Ranged +1 flaming composite longbow +16 (4d8+24/×3 plus 4d6 fire) OR Ranged rope +23 (entangle) Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft. Base Atk +18; Grp +23 Atk Options Manyshot, Point-Blank Shot, Quiken Spell-Like Ability (unholy blight) 3/day, Rapid Shot, Shot on the Run, Summon Devil Spell-Like Abilities (CL 21st): At will - greater teleport (self plus 50 pounds of objects only), charm monster (DC 19), minor image (DC 17), unholy blight (DC 19) Abilities Str 21, Dex 21, con 21, Int 14, Wis 18, Cha 20 Feats DodgeB, Improved Toughness, Manyshot, MobilityB, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Quicken Spell-Like Ability (unholy blight), Rapid Shot, Shot on the Run Skills Concentration +26, Diplomacy +7, Escape Artist +26, Hide +26, Knowledge (any two) +23, Listen +25, Move Silently +26, Search +23, Sense Motive +25, Spot +25, Survival +4 (+6 following tracks), Use Rope +5 (+7 with bindings) Entangle (Ex) Each erinyes carries a stout rope some 50 feet long that entangles opponents of any size as an animate rope spell (caster level 16th). An erinyes can hurl its rope 30 feet with no range penalty. Typically, an erinyes entangles a foe, lifts it into the air, and drops it from a great height. Summon Devil (Sp) Once per day an erinyes can attempt to summon 2d10 lemures or 1d4 bearded devils with a 50% chance of success. This ability is the equivalent of a 3rd-level spell. True Seeing (Su) Erinyes continuously use true seeing, as the spell (caster level 23th). How's that for a fallen angel?
Slagger the Chuul 06-12-07, 03:23 AM	D&D's planes have a history, and though mortals can't fully comprehend the beings that embody those planes and their respective abstracts, they're there nonetheless. Looking at this again, the Fiendish Codex II does explicitly identify erinyes as the descendants of fallen angels, so I guess that's the correct history for the moment.
Shemeska the Marauder 06-12-07, 04:15 AM	Looking at this again, the Fiendish Codex II does explicitly identify erinyes as the descendants of fallen angels, so I guess that's the correct history for the moment. At least one of the myths it presents does, though the myth itself contains some self-invalidating material. Suffice to say there weren't any actual angels around at the time the erinyes fell to evil, and the term is very much a latterday imposition into the original core facts that the myth has evolved around.
Dead_Weasel 06-12-07, 05:23 AM	Fiendish Codex II actually divides the multiverse first into Law and Chaos, then Good and Evil. The erinyes were Lawful Nothing before they became Lawful Evil. Presumably some of them sided with Asmodeus, and the rest did not but were corrupted later on. Given Hell's focus on hierarchy, though, fallen angels are probably all reshaped into nearly-identical erinyes shells, excepting those who merit unique status.
Shemeska the Marauder 06-12-07, 06:16 PM	Fiendish Codex II actually divides the multiverse first into Law and Chaos, then Good and Evil. Pure Good and pure Evil existed at the same time, but the Law/Chaos poles of the planes didn't truly comprehend them (and likewise), and they hadn't yet mixed to create most of the mixed alignment planes. Prior to Asmo falling from Law, the first obyriths were actually the creations of the first fiends, the NE baernaloths. The NE (and NG presumably) planes had tons going on well prior to Asmo's fall, but FC:II doesn't concern itself with anything but a strictly LE perspective on things. Even before Asmodeus was fighting the obyriths and before he'd become LE, the yugoloths and demodands had had their own little genocidal falling out, Apomps the Triple Aspected created Carceri as a result of his expulsion from the Waste, and Gehenna was created at some point likely before the creation of the Ancient Baatorians. As much as the Slaad might love to claim that the planes began as chaos, the pure alignments (CN/LN/NE/NG) originated in an unmixed state at the same point. The particulars of their interaction are hazy, especially for the NG side of things, but it's an interesting little bit of history, spiced with biased sources, myth, unreliable narrators, etc. :)