Error in Hobgoblin skills? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Error in Hobgoblin skills? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
WhtKnt
08-01-04, 08:54 PM Okay, according to the Monster Manual 3.5, the hobgoblin warrior has the following skills:

Hide +3, Listen +2, Move Silently +3, Spot +2.

Hobgoblins also get a racial bonus of +4 on Move Silently checks.

According to Chapter 5 of the Monster Manual 3.5 and Chapter 4 of the DUNGEON MASTER'S Guide, our hobgoblin warrior should have 8 skill points. (Humanoids receive character points by character class and the warrior gets [(2 + Int modifier) x 4] skill points at 1st level.)

If we assume that all of the above skills are class skills for the hobgoblin (if not the warrior class, which they aren't), then the hobgoblin has spent 8 skill points in total:

Hide 2 ranks = +3 (+1 for Dex)
Listen 2 ranks = +2
Move Silently 2 ranks = +3 (+1 for Dex)
Spot 2 ranks = +2

What happened to the racial bonus on Move Silently checks? Also, what about the armor penalty for studded leather? Shouldn't that apply to Hide and Move Silently checks (-1 on each)?

Is it just that these modifiers aren't automatically added in? (Racial skill modifiers seem to be added in for other creatures.) If not, shouldn't they be? It would seem to make the book a lot more useful if I can simply glance at the stats instead of having to do the math during an encounter.

I never really noticed it before because I just used the stats from the book at face value, but I'm designing an adventure where the hobgoblins have slightly different skills and in breaking them down, someone's math is off (either mine or Wizards').
Kaminton
08-02-04, 01:41 AM Hide and Move Silently are cross class skills, as are Spot and Listen.

Hide +3 = Dex (+1) + 4 ranks (+2) + Armor check penalties for shield and studded leather (-2?)
Move Silently +3 = Racial bonus (+4) + Studded leather Armor Check penalty (-1) + Light shield Armor Check penalty (-1) + Dex (+1)
Listen +2 = Alertness (+2) + Wis (-1) + 2 ranks (+1)
Spot +2 = Alertness (+2) + Wis (-1) + 2 ranks (+1)

Hide seems to be too high... I can't account for the armor check penalties on it.

Then again, in my campaign I just gave them +4 to Hide also, since they seem a little weak for a LA +1 race.
WhtKnt
08-02-04, 10:42 AM Doh! Forgot Alertness and the small shield! Blast. But you're right, Hide does seem to be too high, then. Guess, I'll reduce it to the value that you figured.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
WhtKnt 08-01-04, 08:54 PM	Okay, according to the Monster Manual 3.5, the hobgoblin warrior has the following skills: Hide +3, Listen +2, Move Silently +3, Spot +2. Hobgoblins also get a racial bonus of +4 on Move Silently checks. According to Chapter 5 of the Monster Manual 3.5 and Chapter 4 of the DUNGEON MASTER'S Guide, our hobgoblin warrior should have 8 skill points. (Humanoids receive character points by character class and the warrior gets [(2 + Int modifier) x 4] skill points at 1st level.) If we assume that all of the above skills are class skills for the hobgoblin (if not the warrior class, which they aren't), then the hobgoblin has spent 8 skill points in total: Hide 2 ranks = +3 (+1 for Dex) Listen 2 ranks = +2 Move Silently 2 ranks = +3 (+1 for Dex) Spot 2 ranks = +2 What happened to the racial bonus on Move Silently checks? Also, what about the armor penalty for studded leather? Shouldn't that apply to Hide and Move Silently checks (-1 on each)? Is it just that these modifiers aren't automatically added in? (Racial skill modifiers seem to be added in for other creatures.) If not, shouldn't they be? It would seem to make the book a lot more useful if I can simply glance at the stats instead of having to do the math during an encounter. I never really noticed it before because I just used the stats from the book at face value, but I'm designing an adventure where the hobgoblins have slightly different skills and in breaking them down, someone's math is off (either mine or Wizards').
Kaminton 08-02-04, 01:41 AM	Hide and Move Silently are cross class skills, as are Spot and Listen. Hide +3 = Dex (+1) + 4 ranks (+2) + Armor check penalties for shield and studded leather (-2?) Move Silently +3 = Racial bonus (+4) + Studded leather Armor Check penalty (-1) + Light shield Armor Check penalty (-1) + Dex (+1) Listen +2 = Alertness (+2) + Wis (-1) + 2 ranks (+1) Spot +2 = Alertness (+2) + Wis (-1) + 2 ranks (+1) Hide seems to be too high... I can't account for the armor check penalties on it. Then again, in my campaign I just gave them +4 to Hide also, since they seem a little weak for a LA +1 race.
WhtKnt 08-02-04, 10:42 AM	Doh! Forgot Alertness and the small shield! Blast. But you're right, Hide does seem to be too high, then. Guess, I'll reduce it to the value that you figured.